Audiovox CC comments and a question

[Inlaw1]

Recently installed the AV CC on my 06 with the help of a very qualified mechanic buddy. I'd like to thank Smitty for his phone number to call and ask a couple of questions. As everyone has stated, very stand up guy. After doing the install, and taking practically apart to fix a water leak at the cross over pipe, then to fix a snag with the chain / cable, then to re-run hosed... I'm confident to say this really isn't that hard of an install.

So we got the unit installed under the tank like the AE's (mine is just an A) as I wanted the room under the seat. I ran the vacuum off the MAP sensor like FJRcarshopguy had done but I don't think it gave a very strong vacuum signal. In windy conditions the bike would not hold speed unless you helped the throttle along occasionally. Lost speed up hills, unless helped, etc.

I connected all the spare ports used for the throttle body synch by teeing the two on the left and the two on the right then teeing those two sets into the line for the servo and vacuum cannister. It pulls mucho better now. Works like it's supposed to.

I have a question though: Does anyone have a part number and application for a check valve? I've gone to all my local auto parts stores and they are populated with dolts. I had to help them find the generic check valves they had, and it's not what I'd like to use. I would like something with 3/16th inlet / outlet to fit the vacuum hose I'm using. The best one I found at the local auto parts is way too small to fit this hose.

Ideas? Comments? Questions? Answers?

Thanks.

 

[v65]

NAPA part # That link has a NAPA part number for a vacuum diode, but it is 3/16 and 1/4 on the ends. The three port valve illustrated may be different. BTW, advance auto carries a generic version of the two port valve.

 

[slapnpop]

I got my check valves from the HELP! selection of parts at advance auto. See here for lots of photos of the install and how I did the vacuum/check valves.

 

[BrunDog]

McMaster-Carr is your friend: Spring loaded ball check valves with barbed connections (see the very bottom of the page). I got the nylon ones with viton seals for better temperature resistance.

Here they are installed, I put one on each throttle nipple so as to prevent one affecting the others and to get the draw from all four equally:

For more see my install here: My CC install

Works like a champ, but I admittedly don't have tens of thousands of miles on them yet. :huh:

-BD

 

[Inlaw1]

The two auto parts store check valves referenced here are the ones I've seen. The spring loaded check valve may work.

My question now is, is it really necassary to put a check vavle on each intake? What are the possible consequences of not isolating each cylinder?

Thanks for the input.

 

[slapnpop]

The reason for individual check valves is to isolate the vacuum levels in each throttle body. One of the regular service procedures for the FJR is the throttle body sync, which adjusts each throttle body to match the flow rates.

If you do not use individual check valves, then you open passage for vacuum to be transmitted between each throttle bodies, allowing the level to possibly fluctuate. Also, pulling the vacuum from only one throttle body results in an inbalance being set up with that one cylinder.

The end result isn't going to be a catastrophic problem with the bike, but a possible vibration/roughness in the engine.

 

[FJRocket]

The two auto parts store check valves referenced here are the ones I've seen. The spring loaded check valve may work.
My question now is, is it really necassary to put a check vavle on each intake? What are the possible consequences of not isolating each cylinder?

Thanks for the input.

I've been running one check valve on a single line from a single port on two FJRs and never had a problem. Even without an aux can.

I had problems finding the check valves at Autozone and Advance. They both have them, but you are right, most counter workers in those places are dolts. Without a car make and model or the exact part number, they are clueless. If you get the "Help" version, be sure and give it a work out before you install it. I had one fail, and Smitty has has a couple of similar models not work right out of the box.

You might be able to find the ball and spring check valve like BD's on eBay. I think those would be a lot more reliable than the flimsy diaphram type at AZ or AA. Dunno about NAPA. But when/if this one fails, I'm going to the heavier duty type check valve.

 

[ionbeam]

FWIW, most pet stores and all aquarium shops carry high reliability check valves. If an aquarium check valve were to fail either fish die or expensive equipment dies so they are made to last. Most valves are plastic, <$2 ea. Quality pet stores and especially salt water supply stores have or can get brass check valves. Most of the plastic valves are translucent so you can see the valve actually actuate. As Brun suggested, if you have access to professional parts from suppliers like McMaster Carr, MSC Industrial Supplies or Grainger for a few dollars more you can get rugged, industrial strength parts.

 

[smitty141]

I have searched the world over to find a quality check valve. Most of the "Help" valves were poor at best. I found these over the weekend and ordered 15 of them. I have used, and not use check valve on the installs and have had mixed results. Some work fine without and some will have speeds fall off a bit in a pull. If any of you guys that I have done a install think this might help (if speed falls off on a hill) send me a PM. I will send you one for free... Here is a link to were I ordered from. Smitty

check valve

 

[drewvanracer]

I used AC-Delco part # 214-479

Drew

 

[Inlaw1]

I used AC-Delco part # 214-479

Do you happen to know what application that may be for?

 

[Inlaw1]

I have used, and not use check valve on the installs and have had mixed results. Some work fine without and some will have speeds fall off a bit in a pull.

Before I moved from the MAP to the spare intake ports it wouldn't hold it's own in high wind on level ground. Now it may drop 3-5 mph, but it will catch up even if pulling a hill. Just seems to take it a while to start really working its way back to set speed.

Thanks a bunch for the link to the check valves. This looks like it may be the best option, especially if I decide to isolate each cylinder with one (Remind me, on your installs how do you set up your vacuum connection?). Which of the two choices, nylon or polypropylene, would you think hold up better to the under tank heat?

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[radman]

I used AC-Delco part # 214-479

Do you happen to know what application that may be for?

Trans clutch lockup vacuum source for a TH350C is one ap.

 

[smitty141]

I have used, and not use check valve on the installs and have had mixed results. Some work fine without and some will have speeds fall off a bit in a pull.

Before I moved from the MAP to the spare intake ports it wouldn't hold it's own in high wind on level ground. Now it may drop 3-5 mph, but it will catch up even if pulling a hill. Just seems to take it a while to start really working its way back to set speed.

Thanks a bunch for the link to the check valves. This looks like it may be the best option, especially if I decide to isolate each cylinder with one (Remind me, on your installs how do you set up your vacuum connection?). Which of the two choices, nylon or polypropylene, would you think hold up better to the under tank heat?

Thanks again for all the input.

I always use #3 cyl. port. I am not sure what one will hold up better. These are the ones I ordered..

Part #57172 3/16" Hose Polypropylene Mini Check Valve..

Smitty

 

[FJRCarShopGuy]

Before I moved from the MAP to the spare intake ports it wouldn't hold it's own in high wind on level ground. Now it may drop 3-5 mph, but it will catch up even if pulling a hill. Just seems to take it a while to start really working its way back to set speed.

Hello everyone,

Inlaw1, if you're still dropping 3-5 mph and speed recovery is slow even after trying different vacuum sources, you may have a vacuum leak or a bad servo unit.

On most automotive cruise systems with vacuum operated servo units such as this one, they typically use a set of electrically operated valves inside. One valve is to let vacuum into the actuator chamber (which is connected to throttle pull cable) when cruise is set/resumed or speed drops below set value (in this case, engine speed). The other is to release vacuum out of the actuator chamber when speed is greater than set value. This action is repeated many times to balance desired set speed going up or down hills using very little vacuum.

A simple test to check if the system is air tight is to put a vacuum gauge between the check valve(s) and the servo/canister assembly, then start and run engine to build up vacuum (should only take a second or two) and shut off engine and monitor gauge for any leakage. I tested mine to hold for about 3-4 minutes with no noticeable drop. If your system is not holding, pinch off hose or remove and plug hose going to servo unit, run engine again to isolate leak source. If the system is tight without the servo, the servo unit is bad for sure. If the system is still leaking with the servo out of the system, check your canister and or hoses/connections. If the system is tight fully assembled, there may be internal problems with the servo unit and valves.

For your reference, my CC is hooked into the MAP sensor junction, with one hose and one check valve. When cruise is set, I can feel the bike gain 1-2 mph instantly, then settle back to set speed. While cruising, I do not detect any variation. And when transitioning from level to up hills, depending on the grade, it can drop 1-3 mph but recover to set speed in a second or less even with the bike fully loaded and my wife on board. I’ve put about 2,000 miles on the bike since the install and have not experience any problems.

BTW, the check valve I used is from a Volvo car climate control system. It is designed to withstand the harsh environment of the engine compartment of a car. It is used to maintain a vacuum tank more than 10 times the size of our canister and 5 or 6 vacuum actuators, it is plenty for our purpose. It cost about $12 retail. Available from your local Volvo dealer parts dept. Part# 9134341. See pic below.

Hope this helps

 

[BrunDog]

...As Brun suggested, if you have access to professional parts from suppliers like McMaster Carr, MSC Industrial Supplies or Grainger for a few dollars more you can get rugged, industrial strength parts.

Anybody can order online from McMaster-Carr. Just a credit card is required, and they ship silly fast. I buy all my hardware and accessories there. Electronics from Digi-Key, too.

-BD

 

[Inlaw1]

Smitty, thanks for the reply. I ordered some of the nylon check valves from the site you listed. Don't understand why mine wouldn't work right off the MAP is your just using one cylinder port. I'm tapped into all of them now.

FJRcarguy: Thank you, also, for the reply. Maybe I wasn't tied into the MAP correctly, but I'm pretty sure I was teed into the MAP junction correctly. I'm now tied into all four cylinders and the unit works great. Grabs as soon as you set it, and holds speed and pretty much gains on uphills. If I'm going to continue to tap all four, I need to isolate them though.

Thanks for the part number on the Volvo check valve. That's what I was looking for.