Best Synthetic

[charismaticmegafauna]

Doesn't the 20/40 that yamaha sells have a partial synthetic load?

20W-40 Yamalube4 is petroleum

10W-50 Yamalube4R is a blend.

Cheers Rick. Guess the ultimate is a 5W-60 required by Guzzi in their new engines.

Yes, the ultimate, 'perfect', motor oil would have 'constant' viscosity -- regardless of temperature. That property is called its 'Viscosity Index' (V.I.). The higher the V.I., the less the viscosity changes due to temperature change (both up, and, down). But, as Jestal has already told us, the additives needed to accomplish this magic tend to deplete rather rapidly -- but, are probably getting better all the time?

Think about it -- the spaces between engine parts can be designed-in with the knowledge that the oil will fit, precisely, into those spaces all the time, cold to hot. Neat, huh..... :huh:

 

[Mogan]

I started to run synthetics in my bikes and my customer bikes in 1972. Some of my customers at that time road 750 hondas with the oil bag under the right side cover. There was a popular accessory at that time a replacement oil cap with a probe and thermometer in it. We tested AMSOIL 10-40 oil against castrol 10-40. There was a 50 degree difference between them. The AMSOIL ran cooler on that air cooled 750. One of the benifits is a dramatically smother shifting. Try it you will like it!

A LOT has changed with conventional oils since 1972 !!!! I would agree that synthetic oils of that era were a lot "better" in many respects compared to the relatively poor quality conventional oils of that era. As I mentioned earlier.....a lot of old wives tales regarding conventional oils compared to synthetics were started based on experience from the 70's and carry over to today. I guess I'm saying to rerun that experiment with todays oils and see what happens...... Current synthetic oils are just not the miracle products compared to conventional oil that people "remember" from the past.

Dude, you have so much knowledge about oil, I wonder if you are really the security fella in deep space nine... the one that can change his shape? He looks a bit like an oil slick when he's ticked off...

 

[warsw]

Dude, you have so much knowledge about oil, I wonder if you are really the security fella in deep space nine... the one that can change his shape? He looks a bit like an oil slick when he's ticked off...

Don't believe everything he says "The truth is out there"

 

[SkooterG]

Don't believe everything he says "Slick marketing is out there"

There. I fixed it for you.

Sorry, I'll take Jestal any day over someone who is trying to sell me something.

 

[warsw]

Don't believe everything he says "Slick marketing is out there"

There. I fixed it for you.

Sorry, I'll take Jestal any day over someone who is trying to sell me something.

Your loss.

 

[SkooterG]

Your loss.

Says you. I feel exactly the opposite, a pity your poor lost soul.

 

[warsw]

Your loss.

Says you. I feel exactly the opposite, a pity your poor lost soul.

Don't take my word for it. Read for yourself. The info is right there in front of you. Ignore the info "Your loss".

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Try these facts: Clicky (download "The Motor Oil Bible")

Thanks, Rick, I haven't downloaded the 'bible' (yet) -- but, the discussion board you linked to is sponsored by AMSOIL; which, imo, casts some doubt on its objectivity. Almost all motor oil suppliers provide customers with specs and propaganda about their products. All potentially good data -- and, once put through the knowledge filter, may provide some useful info.

Maybe even facts.....?

 

[HaulinAshe]

...Some of the motocross 4 strokes appear to me to be excellent candidates for synthetic oil, BTW, based on my buddies open class KTM that regularily comes into the pits with the oil temp at 340 degrees.... They do seem to really run the oil hot and that is where the synthetics are certainly applicable.

Exactly what started me using synthetics in bikes. What I like most about using synthetics is that I never have to question what I have on hand. The additional cost of the product is far outweighed by the reduced number of impromptu trips I would have to make to purchase a cheaper non-synthetic. The same oil holds up in dirt, on asphalt and withstands the scorching summer temps around here without question. I currently have 12 gallons of Rotella-T synthetic on my garage floor. It's the only reason I go to Wally World, EVER!

 

[Rickster]

...... I currently have 12 gallons of Rotella-T synthetic on my garage floor. It's the only reason I go to Wally World, EVER!

damn, that's quite a mess.

Perhaps some AMSOIL® kitty litter will clean it up better than that generic kitty litter.

 

[vectervp1]

...... I currently have 12 gallons of Rotella-T synthetic on my garage floor. It's the only reason I go to Wally World, EVER!

damn, that's quite a mess.

Perhaps some AMSOIL® kitty litter will clean it up better than that generic kitty litter.

Whoa wait a minute there buddy. From what I've read online, you need to first break it in with conventional kitty litter before using synthetic. If you don't it can cause a world of hurt later on!

( I read it online, so it must be true! )

 

[Mogan]

Dude, you have so much knowledge about oil, I wonder if you are really the security fella in deep space nine... the one that can change his shape? He looks a bit like an oil slick when he's ticked off...

Hint....I do NOT look like an oil slick when I am ticked off......

And, yes, the truth is out there. Just don't consider the truth to be coming from someone trying earnestly to sell you something....LOL

It is amazing how oil related discussions get such a following. Since so much is already done to engines these days by the manufacturer about the only thing most people can do is decide which oil to put in to it....so it becomes a religous experience since it is about the only thing they can "do" to the engine themselves. Way too much is made of oils and what they can and cannot do. And there is no perfect answer and no perfect product for ALL applications. That is part of the problem. Everyone is always looking for the ONE simple best answer to the puzzle. The answer is that there is no simple answer that covers all engines all the time in all uses. Quit looking for one. And quit believing the marketiers that try to convince you that there is one simple best answer....i.e...their product.

Amen. I continue to use Mobil One products in my autos. And, I've started using Silkolene Pro 4 Plus products on my bikes (overkill I know). Haven't switched to Syn yet on the beemer--not enough miles yet (2k). FJR is too fun/practical.

 

[sprint_st]

It is amazing how oil related discussions get such a following. Since so much is already done to engines these days by the manufacturer about the only thing most people can do is decide which oil to put in to it....so it becomes a religous experience since it is about the only thing they can "do" to the engine themselves. Way too much is made of oils and what they can and cannot do. And there is no perfect answer and no perfect product for ALL applications. That is part of the problem. Everyone is always looking for the ONE simple best answer to the puzzle. The answer is that there is no simple answer that covers all engines all the time in all uses. Quit looking for one. And quit believing the marketiers that try to convince you that there is one simple best answer....i.e...their product.

+1 ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!! I've been asking this question on oil threads for about four years without a single case being presented as a ressponse, "Does anyone know of any part failure attributed to the use of the wrong oil???" Now I'm not talking about someone running peanut oil or gear oil. I'm talking about let's say garden variety el cheapo 30 weight in an FJR. Anything "CLOSE" but not rediculous. I have yet to see one single case. Not saying I'm going to run fifty cent 30 wt or that I'm implying its "good" or not, just saying it's frickin' over blown.

 

[IndianaTom]

+1 ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!! I've been asking this question on oil threads for about four years without a single case being presented as a ressponse, "Does anyone know of any part failure attributed to the use of the wrong oil???" Now I'm not talking about someone running peanut oil or gear oil. I'm talking about let's say garden variety el cheapo 30 weight in an FJR. Anything "CLOSE" but not rediculous. I have yet to see one single case. Not saying I'm going to run fifty cent 30 wt or that I'm implying its "good" or not, just saying it's frickin' over blown.

Hey, lets start a slick 50 thread... I tink dat stuff is wurx great! I seen the informertials on the TV and i sez it wurx

 

[jestal]

gone

 

[tripletango]

Just using synthetics especially the cheap ones like rotella synthetic T makes me feel good. That's the truth.

 

[Toecutter]

In specific, improved high temp testing showed the weakness of the SE/SF viscosity improver packages that eventually led to pure synthetic VI packages in todays oils that do not cause those problems.

[SIZE=18pt]Ah Ha!!![/SIZE]

He said it: Synthetic is better! You heard it here!

It's all in the interpretation.

Anybody wanna buy six gallons of conventional oil? :derisive:

 

[warsw]

In specific, improved high temp testing showed the weakness of the SE/SF viscosity improver packages that eventually led to pure synthetic VI packages in todays oils that do not cause those problems.

[SIZE=18pt]Ah Ha!!![/SIZE]

He said it: Synthetic is better! You heard it here!

It's all in the interpretation.

Anybody wanna buy six gallons of conventional oil? :derisive:

I just knew we could sway him over sooner or later. :lol:

 

[sprint_st]

, "Does anyone know of any part failure attributed to the use of the wrong oil???" Now I'm not talking about someone running peanut oil or gear oil. I'm talking about let's say garden variety el cheapo 30 weight in an FJR. Anything "CLOSE" but not rediculous.

There are some cases out there that not a lot of people recognize that do make the point for good oils and what oil works and what doesn't.

More Oldsmobile diesels bit the dust from the owners using 10W40 oil than all the other "problems" associated with that engine put together. 10W40 oil was SPECIFICALLY NOT a recommended oil from GM for that engine (no diesel oils of that era were multi-vis at all) but customers used it extensively. It would stick the rings and the engine would loose compression and not want to start.....all downhill from there. All were "oil related" failures. I have looked at MANY Olds diesel engines with this oil related failure mode. Just didn't happen if the correct oil was used. But you had to go to a truck stop in those days to get the correct diesel oil so most people poured the 10W40 in that they bought at Kmarts.

Personally, I had an oil related failure like this on my XS1100 Yamaha. Started to use a lot of oil at about 75K so I popped the jugs off. Rings were stuck solid in the ring lands. Yep....I had secumbed to the lure of the "best" 10W40 and poured a steady stream of it into the XS1100 despite the fact that it was not a recommended oil in the owners manual.

So...there were a lot of "oil related" failures of various degrees from the SE/SF 10W40 oils that were not recognized by the general public but were VERY obvious to the OEMs. The backlash lead to much improved standards for the API performance ratings an much more stringent testing. In specific, improved high temp testing showed the weakness of the SE/SF viscosity improver packages that eventually led to pure synthetic VI packages in todays oils that do not cause those problems.

If my memory serves me correctly, the diesel failures you are talking about involved an engine that was a converted 350 gas engine that failed because the engineers failed to compensate for the higher pressures in the diesel head and it stretched the studs holding the engine together. That same problem you talk about with the early 10W40 is the same reason why Triumph says not to use any 0w or 5w oil or any 10w50's. The viscosity extenders cause the the oil to break down much more quickly for example it goes in at 10w50 and is actually 15w30 within a thousand or so miles. IMO, your point goes to that chase of the bleeding edge mentality which doesn't really serves us all that well. Thanks for the example. Like I said, I had never seen a single creditable claim of oil causing a parts failure until this one, but I still stand by my statement that this oil stuff is over blown.