Brief discussion of cornering technique

[HaulinAshe]

When you are riding two up you are probably trying to go smooth for the passanger and that helps.

If only that were true! She will be the first to tell you that is NOT why she rides with me.



I fully comprehend the typical approach of accelerating or roll-on on the exit. What I'm looking for specifically, is feedback/opinions from those that are using weight shift as opposed to the double-take to correct for improper lean angle on a constant speed turn.

Please note: Constant speed is defined as choosing to do 55.0000 mph around a sweeper with a 55 mph posted speed limit. Pretend the LEO is 165 feet in front of you and the RD is screaming Ka in your freakin right ear.

In my life space, every millisecond counts. Don't ask why!

Thanks to everyone for your reply. Let the regurgitation continue.

 

[bandito]

I fully comprehend the typical approach of accelerating or roll-on on the exit. What I'm looking for specifically, is feedback/opinions from those that are using weight shift as opposed to the double-take to correct for improper lean angle on a constant speed turn.Please note: Constant speed is defined as choosing to do 55.0000 mph around a sweeper with a 55 mph posted speed limit. Pretend the LEO is 165 feet in front of you and the RD is screaming Ka in your freakin right ear.

If you're doing a double take on a 55mph sweeper, then you dove in too hard. On a bike this heavy I don't use weight shift beause I don't think it matters as much as on a sportbike. Your Gen II has linked brakes, so try a little bit of the back brake and throttle at the same time. (do this smoothly and practice it on a wide curve first)

 

[HaulinAshe]

On a bike this heavy I don't use weight shift beause I don't think it matters as much as on a sportbike. Your Gen II has linked brakes, so try a little bit of the back brake and throttle at the same time. (do this smoothly and practice it on a wide curve first)

It only matters if you have a "few extra pounds" like most of us old farts.



I like the combined linked brakes and throttle idea. Will have to give that a try. It would definitely load the suspension and create a similar geometry change as the weight shift, without causing any variation in straight-line travel speed (mph). Besides, it gives me one more way to burn away brakes!

 

[twowheelnut]

Jeff, try adjusting your corner entry points.

 

[bandito]

It only matters if you have a "few extra pounds" like most of us old farts.

No comment there I been working on a different style with this "touring" bike

I like the combined linked brakes and throttle idea. Will have to give that a try. It would definitely load the suspension and create a similar geometry change as the weight shift, without causing any variation in straight-line travel speed (mph). Besides, it give me one more way to burn away brakes!

And that is what I was getting at. Weight change happens in a lot of ways, try to get the weight of the BIKE to shift during the turn by using brakes and throttle. Experiment on a familiar road. The linked brakes are really amazing. :yahoo:

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Jeff,

Sounds to me that your entry speed is too fast and you have not estiblished the correct path of travel. I would suggest you slow - look - press - roll to help you with turns. First slow to a correct entry speed using both brakes while estiblishing the correct path of travel (outside-inside-outside). Make sure you get back on the throttle, NOT pick up spped, this getting back on the throttle will stabilize the bike. The look through the cornerfor the correct path of travel and when you reach the Apex roll on the throttle to keep traction to the rear wheel and attain the correct exit speed.

Hope this helps!

Rob

MSF Instructor

 

[HaulinAshe]

Jeff, try adjusting your corner entry points.

What, you are suggesting I treat the illness rather than the symptoms?

 

[twowheelnut]

Jeff, try adjusting your corner entry points.

What, you are suggesting I treat the illness rather than the symptoms?

Yep.

 

[bandito]

Lookin at your avatar explains why you don't do double takes two-up

Your pillion is leaning to the outside of the turn, and you look like you want to be on the GP circuit :yahoo:

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

I like the combined linked brakes and throttle idea. Will have to give that a try. It would definitely load the suspension and create a similar geometry change as the weight shift, without causing any variation in straight-line travel speed (mph). Besides, it gives me one more way to burn away brakes!

You think braking in a curve the answer to your dilema!?!?!??? Are you out of your freakin' mind? Depending on your speed and lean angle, you're already eating up a huge chunk of your traction, now you want to do some braking? :blink: That's a HUGE bad habit and about the worst advice I've seen given out on this forum. A smooth rolling on of the throttle is what will seat your suspension. Don't even get me started on the idea of shifting your weight in order to negotiate a turn at speed.

You are talking about riding on the street, right?

 

[ARFJR]

I'll chime in too. Monitoring entry speed is essential. If you're on the brakes frequently when approaching turns, you'll have more problems.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Lookin at your avatar explains why you don't do double takes two-up
Your pillion is leaning to the outside of the turn, and you look like you want to be on the GP circuit :yahoo:

You know, I actually prefer the pillion to stay with the bike, especially if the pillion is anywhere close to my same body weight. I'd rather deal with what's required to manage their weight as a static part of the bike, than to deal with what happens if they lean early, late, too much, too little, or God forbid the wrong way!

But all that is for another discussion. I'll stop hijacking my own thread now!

 

[Scab]

Well, I think this thread is the epitome of what tends to happen while posting on the internet. No offense is intended, so please take this for what it's worth. But, I think alot of the responses are irrelevant due to the lack of the responders actually having witnessed Jeff's ride. This is not me we're talking about here, but someone with exceptional riding skills. Having known the man and witnessed his ride, I really have nothing to offer because I know for fact that on his worse day he can out-ride me on my best day. To try to keep things in perspective, I would offer for consideration that the man is a perfectionist. Any perceived failures (by Jeff) while riding would probably not be considered such by most riders. However, he seems to me to be a believer that anything that can be done, can be done perfectly. And thus, the quest. Unlike most people, Jeff is not satisfied with "good enough." So, what we are talking about here is not degrees, but fractions of degrees. Jeff is an excellent rider, a highly trained rider, an educated rider, and a safe rider. He's the kind of rider that makes me feel like the child of a lesser God.

So, with all that in mind, carry on.

 

[twowheelnut]

You shuddup now!



Actually, my riding skills suck, but when I watch the likes of Highlander, Ojai Roy and Joe S as they proceed to leave me in the last county, I at least pick-up a bit on what they are doing. Can't manage to duplicate it myself, mind you...

 

[Scab]

I'm just sayin'...

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Well, I think this thread is the epitomy of what tends to happen while posting on the internet. No offense is intended, so please take this for what it's worth. But, I think alot of the responses are irrelevant due to the lack of the responders actually having witnessed Jeff's ride. This is not me we're talking about here, but someone with exceptional riding skills. Having known the man and witnessed his ride, I really have nothing to offer because I know for fact that on his worse day he can out-ride me on my best day. To try to keep things in perspective, I would offer for consideration that the man is a perfectionist. Any perceived failures (by Jeff) while riding would probably not be considered such by most riders. However, he seems to me to be a believer that anything that can be done, can be done perfectly. And thus, the quest. Unlike most people, Jeff is not satisfied with "good enough." So, what we are talking about here is not degrees, but fractions of degrees. Jeff is an excellent rider, a highly trained rider, an educated rider, and a safe rider. He's the kind of rider that makes me feel like the child of a lesser God.So, with all that in mind, carry on.

So, how does he corner? :lol:

Jeff, I have experienced the same thing. I think I have a tendency in long sweepers where I don't roll on not to look through the turn consistently. On long sweepers, looking to the final destination isn't always a reality and you have to adjust your focus from time to time throughout the turn. In these cases, I find myself sometimes focusing too hard on the first focus point and this screws me up. I need to focus on keeping a smooth transition of my view to continually get through the turn without the double lean effect.

Sometimes I over anticipate this need and let the concern override 'just riding'. Sometimes, I just have to lean based on a feeling for the turn rather than seeing all the way through it. When I ride with that feeling, I almost never double clutch a turn.

It raises the question: Can we be too focused on the technique? I think the answer is that we can be too focused on aspects of the technique and it makes us ignore other aspects of the turn.

:huh:

If any of this makes sense...well...good.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...Sometimes, I just have to lean based on a feeling for the turn rather than seeing all the way through it. When I ride with that feeling, I almost never double clutch a turn. It raises the question: Can we be too focused on the technique? I think the answer is that we can be too focused on aspects of the technique and it makes us ignore other aspects of the turn.

:huh:

If any of this makes sense...well...good.

Well, it does -- sometimes the rider has to have a little 'faith'. Faith that the road continues over the hill and around the curve -- even though you can't see it. In places where the roads are well-engineered (most of the U.S.) those little yellow corner info signs (preceding the curve) can be a big help in making a 'judgment' as to entry speed and throttle roll-on. The decisions for a 30mph (recco'd for all road users) can be way different than the decision for, say, 40mph.

Still....the basics of skillful cornering always apply -- it's just that it ain't too easy (and, gets complicated) sometimes.

 

[Grumpy]

When you are riding two up you are probably trying to go smooth for the passanger and that helps.

If only that were true! She will be the first to tell you that is NOT why she rides with me.



I fully comprehend the typical approach of accelerating or roll-on on the exit. What I'm looking for specifically, is feedback/opinions from those that are using weight shift as opposed to the double-take to correct for improper lean angle on a constant speed turn.

Please note: Constant speed is defined as choosing to do 55.0000 mph around a sweeper with a 55 mph posted speed limit. Pretend the LEO is 165 feet in front of you and the RD is screaming Ka in your freakin right ear.

In my life space, every millisecond counts. Don't ask why!

Thanks to everyone for your reply. Let the regurgitation continue.

Lose the 880 rear and your problem will go away.

jim

 

[extrememarine]

Jeff,

Here's my .02cents, I've had the same symptoms, but have managed to overcome them for the most part (& I've ridden with Jeff a couple of times, so I know where Scab is coming from regarding how Jeff rides).

Edited to better address Jeff’s question and not continue the regugatation

What I have learned and applied to address multiple steering inputs in a corner @ constant speed.

-Roll off the throttle at the turn point (even for a constant speed corner)

-Make the steering input (quick steering input, not “lazy, slow lean”

-Roll throttle back on, maintaining enough throttle to hold the desired speed

-Move eyes to apex at the turn point, once past the turn point, then move eyes to the exit.

I picked this up during that class that I went to just before EOM, it has made such a difference for me. Also, try dropping your forearms so that your steering input to the bike is in a motion that has you forearms moving parallel to the ground, and shoulders square the bike.

Wayne

 

[Scab]

Lose the 880 rear and your problem will go away.jim

Now we're getting somewhere. :lol: