Broken front aluminum sub frame

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dcarver

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Owned.

'They' said it would happen, the aluminum front sub frame, holding them heavy assed Solteks would eventually break. I even predicted on that thread that I would have the first failure, since I ride 6 miles every day on a really phooked up washboard dirt road. The last mile is not county maintained, and right about now it will rattle your fillings out. All the truly street pussies (thanks RenoJohn, love that term) probably will never have anything to worry about, but for the Soltek-equipped Adventure Riders (sounds grandiose, eh?) contingent, beware, you're failure will eventually become evident.

OK, so I don't have pix of the failure *YET*, will have some come this Saturday, so be patient. I decided I don't have the skill/tools/patience/working non-arthritic fingers to mess with pulling all the front plastic off to get to the sub frame. Coincidentally, a most *EXCELLENT* technician, whom I wrote glowing praises before on this forum, is opening his own independent shop so the logical choice was to have Ivan the Great once again fix Crzy8. As a matter of interest, Ivan repaired Crzy8 after the carbonization problem and then again after the Deer Strike. To say I trust Ivan with my life, since he works on my bike, is the truth. Ok then, enough about Ivan (for now) and back to the problem.

The mirrors mount on a welded tab, an ear, of the aluminum sub frame that holds the front of the bike together. It's designed to hold a low weight mirror on silky smooth paved roads. So I, and others, have hung a huge mass called Soltek HID lights, mounted on a lever arm, to that ear. Dirt roads, vibration, and sooner or later something has to give. I promise, pix coming soon.

The question for the now is this - I, like most all others, have mounted the Solteks on Skyway brackets. The brackets are fine - beefy beyond belief and with quality.

Please keep this thread on topic, those who have been burned by Skyway aux fuel tanks, Thank You. I feel your pain but this ain't the place, so sincerely, Thank You.

These mounts consume about 1/8" of the two studs epoxied? into the mirror. The nuts holding the mirror + Soltek brackets barely have perch on the remaining threads. I want to thicken the plate for the ears, and add triangulated bracing too. This means the mirror studs need be lengthened so the nuts have threads to secure to. Keep it clean pervs, you know who you are..

My question is this, to all you handy fabricators/welders out there - is it possible to cut the existing two studs down, then weld a threaded extension on, above the securing nuts, without melting the plastic of the mirror the stud is epoxied/glued into? Will it be strong enough?

I did try to extract the existing studs, they won't budge without damage.

Maybe some pix would help.

Stock mirror studs. They need be lengthened to accommodate the Skyway brackets + additional thickness on the mounting 'ears' I plan to use. I want to thicken the plate for the ears, and add triangulated bracing too. This means the mirror studs need be lengthened.

DSC02487.jpg


The studs are typical of the ones you put everyday 10 MM nuts on..

DSC02490.jpg


Here's what I want to do - as not defined by the pix -

1. Cut the existing stud above the threads.

2. Weld a (shorter) extension on to the existing stud, above the area where the securing nut would locate.

DSC02489.jpg


Once again, pix of the sub frame this Saturday.

 
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I fear that you'll melt the mirror if you try and gas weld the stud. You might be able to tig or mig weld it without generating the vast amounts of heat that gas welding generates.

Another thought would be to drill the studs out, and epoxy steel shafts into the holes. When they cure use a die to thread them.

 
If you set up a heat sink, like say sticking the mirrors in water with the top out for welding, it should work to weld extensions on the existing studs w/o melting anything.

From a manufacturing standpoint, those studs are almost certainly just screwed in to the mirror bases. With a really good bonding agent that makes red loctite look like chocolate syrup. Still, you might try a little heat and some vice grips. Whats the worst that can happen? :rolleyes:

Wait a minute - not having a Gen II, are the bases of the mirrors plastic? If so, ignore my comments.

 
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If you're trying to keep me from visiting the Hondarosa with this thread about the horrible roads....you're failing. I'm still gonna visit you again!

 
I do believe I have a spare mirror base for you to practice on if you go that route. 06 Left side... I'm sure I do and it's brand new, rather than take the front apart I took the mirror apart where it hinges.

(There's a ball and spring in there that will shoot across the barn in case you're wondering).

Let me know if you need/want it.

-MD

 
Don, was that subframe replaced after you offed Bambi?
Yes, this is a new subframe post Bambi. The original was pretty tweaked and is essentially unusable. I'm sure Gary at Mondak can beat the price, the local dealer wants > 400 USD for a new subframe. <gasp>


If you set up a heat sink, like say sticking the mirrors in water with the top out for welding, it should work to weld extensions on the existing studs w/o melting anything.
From a manufacturing standpoint, those studs are almost certainly just screwed in to the mirror bases. With a really good bonding agent that makes red loctite look like chocolate syrup. Still, you might try a little heat and some vice grips. Whats the worst that can happen? :rolleyes:

Wait a minute - not having a Gen II, are the bases of the mirrors plastic? If so, ignore my comments.
Yes, Gen II bases are plastic. I think you're correct - the studs are threaded then epoxied into place. The bottom is not visible, so I don't care if it gets a little heat damage, and I have a couple of RoseBud torches... just sayin' I CAN own it... :rofl:


I do believe I have a spare mirror base for you to practice on if you go that route. 06 Left side... I'm sure I do and it's brand new, rather than take the front apart I took the mirror apart where it hinges.
(There's a ball and spring in there that will shoot across the barn in case you're wondering).

Let me know if you need/want it.

-MD
Thanks, but I have an 06 broken mirror from Barabus's little moment of embarrassment. I can and will experiment with it... Sacrificial lamb that it is..


 
Having just utilized a "T" nut and some J-B Weld to fix a problem (EZ Out broken off in hole, not removable, turned an "innie" into an "outie")....when the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.....the following comes to mind: Could you use a "T" nut (grind off flange if desired) or other length of female-threaded "tubing" as a splice. Secure with Locktite or J-B?

 
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why can't ya use a 1" or so long threaded "collar or coupling nut" all female to screw the two ends of separate studs into with some red locktite. That's what I'd try first (mechanical engr as opposed to chemical engineerin')

coupling nut:

coupling-nut_10805071_250x250.jpg


 
I doubt a 'T' nut minus the flange would fit through the holes, never mind a coupler nut.

 
The question for the now is this - ...
My question is this, to all you handy fabricators/welders out there - is it possible to cut the existing two studs down, then weld a threaded extension on, above the securing nuts, without melting the plastic of the mirror the stud is epoxied/glued into? Will it be strong enough?
My answer now is this -

This is now my answer:

Yes.

It is possible to weld those without melting the plastic. You need a skilled welder, TIG skilled and a heat sink. I've made lots of heat sinks out of aluminum and copper. But those will be useless if you take too long to weld it and let too much heat soak into the stud.

Forget about pulling those studs. They are molded in. I forget if they are L or U shaped. madmike2 would know.

 
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I doubt a 'T' nut minus the flange would fit through the holes, never mind a coupler nut.
Good point. How's this: Make the splice after passing the original bolts through the cowling? Of course, the issue then becomes how to secure the bolts as the splice may be in the way of the nuts. Done just right, possibly shortening the original bolts and/or with a spacer that could slide over the splice, it might be able to be made to work.

 
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The question for the now is this - ...
My question is this, to all you handy fabricators/welders out there - is it possible to cut the existing two studs down, then weld a threaded extension on, above the securing nuts, without melting the plastic of the mirror the stud is epoxied/glued into? Will it be strong enough?
My answer now is this -

This is now my answer:

Yes.

It is possible to weld those without melting the plastic. You need a skilled welder, TIG skilled and a heat sink. I've made lots of heat sinks out of aluminum and copper. But those will be useless if you take too long to weld it and let too much heat soak into the stud.

Forget about pulling those studs. They are molded in. I forget if they are L or U shaped. madmike2 would know.
I took a hacksaw to an old mirror base when Joe was working on his mirror spacers. IIRC, the head is shaped like a rivet ("T") with splines on the shank and it's molded into the mirror base. Ir will not simply screw out.

 
just thinking out loud; if you have to redo the sub frame anyway

could it be possible to secure the mirrors to the skyway brackets using the existing studs (possibly shortened)

then secure the skyway brackets to the new modified subframe using a slightly different location for the 2 new fasteners. maybe another set of studs or even some stainless bolts?.? dunno just thinking.

i have never seen the SW brackets but if there is enough meat there you may be able to turn them into a soluton

 
Take a look at using this Knurl-Grip Stud extractor from McMaster-Carr, p/n 2537A11.

2537ap1s.gif


Uses a standard 1/2" square-drive ratchet wrench (not included) to tighten the knurled bottom wheel on this extractor; as you tighten the wheel, its grip on studs and bolt ends becomes stronger. No drilling required. Removes 1/4" to 3/4" size studs. Use on right-hand and left-hand threads. Made of steel.

You'd have to secure your mirrors in a padded vise, or such to get enough leverage/torque.

I have one that I used to successfully remove and replace rusted mounting hardware on several radar antennas, without ruining their alignment.

PM me if interested and I could ride over this weekend and let you try it.

 
Yeah bug someone said that the studs aren't really studs it's either U shabed bolt or two L shaped studs molded into the plastic. In which case a stud extractor aint gonna do chit.

 
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