Bearly Flying
Well-known member
Fixed it for you, Zilla....
Cautionary Tales about Seth Laam!
- Thread starter kampod
- Start date
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Fixed it for you, Zilla....
I totally agree that seats are subjective as riders cycling styles and butts are different. I also would be willing to gamble that If there was
a long term study of different seats for the FJR and a graph was made with the results, and the graph showing riders satisfaction at 100 mile
increments. I am pretty sure a grouping of seats spreading out as the miles increased with RDL rising far above the rest at 1k. would be the
result.
Then take the RDL with its wings on a twisty road, and other seats would be favored. So an individuals riding style would give different results.
For comfort in the long rides… RDL. I would love to ride the sport version of the RDL and see if it is a nice balance. But consider the FJR is a sport
TOURING bike.
Spending $ on a good seat for yourself is worth it - no matter your choice. I think the same apply for all gear. Spend a couple days in the saddle miserable
because something failed to keep you comfortable and then consider if the extra $ you saved was worth it.
Just my $.02.
And I will always try to listen to others opinion on venders or gear. Take it for what its worth…
a long term study of different seats for the FJR and a graph was made with the results, and the graph showing riders satisfaction at 100 mile
increments. I am pretty sure a grouping of seats spreading out as the miles increased with RDL rising far above the rest at 1k. would be the
result.
Then take the RDL with its wings on a twisty road, and other seats would be favored. So an individuals riding style would give different results.
For comfort in the long rides… RDL. I would love to ride the sport version of the RDL and see if it is a nice balance. But consider the FJR is a sport
TOURING bike.
Spending $ on a good seat for yourself is worth it - no matter your choice. I think the same apply for all gear. Spend a couple days in the saddle miserable
because something failed to keep you comfortable and then consider if the extra $ you saved was worth it.
Just my $.02.
And I will always try to listen to others opinion on venders or gear. Take it for what its worth…
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wheatonFJR
...
I have a couple photos of the finished seats, which he built when he said he was going to build them after a slight delay. He talked to me before the build to make sure he built what I wanted. He also sent a tracking number so I could watch progress.
I'm not sure what else he would have to do for me. He did right by me and I look forward to a good seat.
I would recommend him based on my experience...so I would NOT stay away from Seth Laam, but use him, with the understanding that sometimes stuff happens, so get a temporary seat to use so you don't lose any ride time.
I will have one for sale soon.
I'm not sure what else he would have to do for me. He did right by me and I look forward to a good seat.
I would recommend him based on my experience...so I would NOT stay away from Seth Laam, but use him, with the understanding that sometimes stuff happens, so get a temporary seat to use so you don't lose any ride time.
I will have one for sale soon.
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wheatonFJR
...
I liked the post before you self censored.rushes said:
Yer drunk on Canadian whiskey again, aincha?
Bearly Flying
Well-known member
Nope,
couple bottles of Malbec,,,,,,,,, Maybe.
Mudslide Miller
Well-known member
This has been a very fascinating thread for me and was involved in the previous one last year that talked a lot about the same issues of communication and business practices with Seth. I wanted to share a little about my ride-in experience last May. After that experience and by his own admission, I came to the conclusion, (Rick Mayer being exactly the same), that he is a master of his craft but is not a business man. I had called and spoke to Seth on the initial appointment scheduling 6 months ahead of time and then about 3 months out again just to firm up some details of the build and he answered both calls first time and was very professional and pleasant. He even hooked me up at the local Best Western, where he gets a discount for his ride-in customers. I thought that was all great customer service. Then the communication disappointments began! About 4 days before I was going to ride out (with two of my Beemer buddies), I tried calling to confirm my appointment. No answer, no return call. I tried everyday up until the day I was riding out, pleading for a return call as I was riding 900 miles to come see him along with my companions. Zero response.
I explained to my buddies the situation and said we'll just go and do the riding we were planning to do in Northern Cali anyways and I'll just take my chances that I'm still good to go with Seth. I rode up the day of my appointment expecting to pull into a business building to discover that he does this out of his single car garage (as Rick did). He came out of his house after I stood in his drive for about 5 minutes, as his garage door was open with music going, so I assumed he would be right out. I introduced myself and told him that I had the 9 am ride in appointment. First words out of his mouth were, "I don't have any ride-ins scheduled, who scheduled you?" WTF.
I said I talked to you on the phone twice, 3 & 6 months out, and have been calling you all week to try and confirm and got no responses from you. He said that his helper, that takes appointments was out for a family funeral. I said, well I can understand that, but that you were the one who actually scheduled me for 9 am today. He goes over and looks at his calendar and he doesn't have me down. At this point, he's pretty perturbed with not expecting me and proceeds to show me all of his backlog. He had at least 60 to 70 seats lined up on his back porch. I thought, no wonder people are pissed off at your turn times. He said, well you made your ride all the way out here so we'll go ahead and take care of you. I would hope so, since I did have a legitimate appointment and you forgot to document it. Then he says, "yeah, you can see all the work, but to everyone else, I'm the asshole for not delivering on time". All I could think was, you need some help for both scheduling and manufacturing. When I asked him why he didn't hire some help, he said he was very OCD about making his seats the way he wants them and he would not hire anyone else to help him. He also has some proprietary material that he doesn't want to share with any one. He explained to me that the big difference between his seats and Rick's seats is that the foam won't break down like Ricks will. He said I'll make your seat once and it's good for life, with a lifetime warranty on the outer material if it ever tears. I give him a lot of props for that.
So, needless to say, as the build went on, he cooled down a little and talked to me a lot about the business. I never shared any of this after my build because the end result was a good looking and comfortable, durable seat that I was very happy with. After letting this thread unfold, I thought it was time to share. I truly hope he can be more diligent in spacing his work out to keep everyone happy. It looks like with Marks recent turn around that he has reduced his backlog to a manageable level again.
I explained to my buddies the situation and said we'll just go and do the riding we were planning to do in Northern Cali anyways and I'll just take my chances that I'm still good to go with Seth. I rode up the day of my appointment expecting to pull into a business building to discover that he does this out of his single car garage (as Rick did). He came out of his house after I stood in his drive for about 5 minutes, as his garage door was open with music going, so I assumed he would be right out. I introduced myself and told him that I had the 9 am ride in appointment. First words out of his mouth were, "I don't have any ride-ins scheduled, who scheduled you?" WTF.
I said I talked to you on the phone twice, 3 & 6 months out, and have been calling you all week to try and confirm and got no responses from you. He said that his helper, that takes appointments was out for a family funeral. I said, well I can understand that, but that you were the one who actually scheduled me for 9 am today. He goes over and looks at his calendar and he doesn't have me down. At this point, he's pretty perturbed with not expecting me and proceeds to show me all of his backlog. He had at least 60 to 70 seats lined up on his back porch. I thought, no wonder people are pissed off at your turn times. He said, well you made your ride all the way out here so we'll go ahead and take care of you. I would hope so, since I did have a legitimate appointment and you forgot to document it. Then he says, "yeah, you can see all the work, but to everyone else, I'm the asshole for not delivering on time". All I could think was, you need some help for both scheduling and manufacturing. When I asked him why he didn't hire some help, he said he was very OCD about making his seats the way he wants them and he would not hire anyone else to help him. He also has some proprietary material that he doesn't want to share with any one. He explained to me that the big difference between his seats and Rick's seats is that the foam won't break down like Ricks will. He said I'll make your seat once and it's good for life, with a lifetime warranty on the outer material if it ever tears. I give him a lot of props for that.
So, needless to say, as the build went on, he cooled down a little and talked to me a lot about the business. I never shared any of this after my build because the end result was a good looking and comfortable, durable seat that I was very happy with. After letting this thread unfold, I thought it was time to share. I truly hope he can be more diligent in spacing his work out to keep everyone happy. It looks like with Marks recent turn around that he has reduced his backlog to a manageable level again.
rushes
Well-known member
Mudslide Miller - thanks for the story. It explains a whole lot.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
I've had six Corbins including on my FJR. I've put 34,000 miles on it in two years and I like it a great deal. I know many do not like Corbins, but they've kept me happy.
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Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
+1 Thank you for sharing that with us.
That sounds exactly like the man I have dealt with. He is a craftsman first and foremost. He truly seems to care about his craft and his customers. His electronic communication skills suck. He does not seem like a good businessman.
He answered the phone EVERY time I called. He called me and took a great deal of time with me getting all the information he could to build the seat just right, each of the three times he built me a seat. He told me that e-mails were not his thing and that he enjoyed the live conversation much better.
Next time I need a custom seat built for a motorcycle I will be calling Seth. I can put up with his eccentricities to get his craftsmanship.
RoadTrip
Well-known member
I had nothing but GOOD to say about Seth. He did me on a ride-in and I would do it again. Hope you get your problem worked out.
garyahouse
newbs need the forum
Ha... this one got me. Dat dare is funny. Wayyy too many of us can relate.
As for Seth Laam:
One man, who himself is extremely good at his craft, and to some, the best in the business... working out of a small garage with 60 seats on hand waiting to go. One helper to help handle the phone. Admits that he doesn't do electronic communications very well. Constantly trying to catch up. Sincerely trying to do it right. Seems to get very busy at times and does not always respond to customers in a timely manner. Maybe a flawed back up plan to effectively deal with every customer so that none "slip through the cracks."
Hmmm...
Add to that some of the tendencies you and I might have:
-I'm likely to put off what I promised someone on the phone -- to help someone who's standing in front of me. Therefore that phone call promise is not written in stone.
-I'm likely to write promises I made on a slip of paper that I intend to put on my calendar as soon as I'm done with this emergency in front of me.
-Add to that how many times I've found a little paper wad left in the bottom of same pocket a week later when I pull it from the dryer... and wondered what was on the paper.
-I'm likely to forget the phone caller's name that I just told myself not to forget.
-I'm likely to lose things... even very large things and can't figure out how something so large could get lost somewhere in the garage.
-I'm a stacker. Things accidentally get lost at the bottom of the stack.
-It takes forever to find stuff sometimes. Even important stuff. I often say, I'll look for it tomorrow. I mean well.
-I can get frustrated with people and sometimes don't even respond to the things they say. Heaven forbid...
AND HOW MANY CAN CLAIM THIS...
-I am extremely good at doing one thing in my life. Many of us are.
Is not each of us a combination of both good and bad? How many things do I need to "work on" in my life?
***Easy enough for us to give our Monday morning quarterback advice to enable a talented businessman we never met to win every football game. But then again, we never strapped on a football helmet.
Seth, we get it. We wish you all the best. We hope that your business excels.
Until then, may each of us remember that we are not dealing with a streamlined and highly polished business with scores of employees and a bulletproof customer service center.
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I have no dog in this hunt, but it sounds to me like what Seth Laam needs is a business partner or helper sharp enough to handle the minutia and tedious business details, so that he can concentrate on his craft. I suspect that he doesn't have the quality of help that he needs so that he can keep his prices as low as they are, while maintaining a high quality final product, and while still making a profit.
There are financial pressures in any hand craft business like this from more than the 2 obvious directions. Sure, he could hire the help he needs to maintain a higher degree of customer service, but that might mean his seats would costs as much as the competition and he would lose his competative edge. Lots of people choose a Laam over a Russell because of the lower cost. If they were priced identically, with equal customer services, how much of his business would he lose?
As for the title of this thread, I think at this point it is highly unfair to leave it as it is. Someone just reading the beginning of the thread may come away with a misinterpretation. Rather than "Stay Away" perhaps a more gentle warning like "Be Wary" would be appropriate?
There are financial pressures in any hand craft business like this from more than the 2 obvious directions. Sure, he could hire the help he needs to maintain a higher degree of customer service, but that might mean his seats would costs as much as the competition and he would lose his competative edge. Lots of people choose a Laam over a Russell because of the lower cost. If they were priced identically, with equal customer services, how much of his business would he lose?
As for the title of this thread, I think at this point it is highly unfair to leave it as it is. Someone just reading the beginning of the thread may come away with a misinterpretation. Rather than "Stay Away" perhaps a more gentle warning like "Be Wary" would be appropriate?
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BakerBoy
Well-known member
I have read about his service inconsistency and communications issues (as posted on this and other forums many times over the years) sufficient that I will 'stay away'. My opinion.
snackbauer
Well-known member
The problem for those of us not willing to pay for the RDL, or not liking the looks of it, is that the Laam seat seems to be without competition. I don't know of anyone building as high a quality seat that looks as nice at the price Seth charges. He has created a niche, which is good business sense.
I also think the title should be changed.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
+1 Perhaps his business is experiencing growing pains (?) This would explain much of the earlier satisfaction and the recent diis-
satisfaction. The recent issues seem to be concerning timeliness and communication instead of quality of the product.
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
Very good summary. I have 3 Laam seats, the first being the result of a May 2013 ride in. There were 2 of us and we were there for 5 hours so we got to know Seth pretty well. After watching how much time and effort he puts into building his seats I didn't see how he could continue to be a one man business for very long, especially at the prices he was charging. He spends too much effort building the seats to have enough time left over to take phone calls, do the scheduling, coordinate with customers over the details of the seats, order supplies, receive packages, and ship the finished seats. I also thought his life time guarantee was going to be a mistake.
He worked for Rick Mayer for 11 years, an experience that he did not seem eager to talk about, but he did say that he thought that most of Rick's problems were caused by too much success. He said that at one time they were trying to make 9-11 seats a day and both customer service and quality greatly suffered. Seth's goal was to limit his business to 2 seats a day, which probably hasn't happened, given his reluctance to turn anyone away.
My experience with him has been great but there are too many reporting excessive delays and non-communication to think it isn't happening. My advise at this point is to do a ride in if possible. If that isn't an option then put your order in at the end of the riding season, be patient, and have a back up seat if you want to use your bike until you get his seat. He doesn't need a helper as much as he needs a business manager, and those can be hard to find at a price he can afford and still hold his prices in line.
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I had one on my Triumph Trophy and loved it. But also, since they are local to me, I was able to do a ride in and have it custom fit which I think makes a huge difference. It wouldn't have been nearly as comfortable had I just purchased it off the rack as is. YMMV. B)
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