CHP shenannigans (sp)

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motorgod

And now..let me introduce the one and only....MOTO
Joined
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Location
Napa, CA
I have recently become aware of a new disturbing program initiated by our friends at CHP (California Highway Patrol). It seems that CHP has formed a new task force dedicated to enforcing MECHANICAL violations. The program utilizes officers from multiple offices to saturate a specific area. The officers will cite ANY mechanical violation ie... no front plate, tinted windows, most fender eliminator kits (due to no license plate lights), flush mounted turn signals, modified exhaust (motorcycle and car)....you get the hint. Anyway, the citations are not made correctable. Good, you think, now I don't need to fix my exhaust! But wait! This causes a higher fine AND the citation now shows up on your driving record. Here's the kicker...if you get stopped again for the same violation, you are now cited for 24004 CVC--UNLAWFUL OPERATION, after notification by peace officer. This results in a MEGA-FINE. The CHP has sent officers to 40 hr schools to learn all about these violations. It is unknown when or where this task force will hit. My son got caught for tinted windows....$280.00 fine.

Just food for thought....

 
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this is not supprising seeing as the buget in cali is in the dump..the gobener is going to find every penny he can. i suspect we will see the same thing in florida, hell they've raised the price on speeding tickets...$261 for 69 in a 45..

cadman

 
Thanks for the heads-up, motorgod. I suppose we'll hear about it shortly after they fully implement it. Sounds like your son was in the first wave of this enforcement. Tinted windows, though? I understood Cali's laws on tinting to allow it EXCEPT for the windshield and front seat drivers and passenger windows (which is how my Subaru Outback wagon is set up, primarily to keep it cooler inside it during the summer). Am I missing something, or did your son have the front ones tinted?

Wondering about what ALL it means that it's not a correctable citation, though. I'm assuming that the cited violator still has to make the repairs (e.g., reinstall the OEM exhaust). But does he/she then have to get that confirmed someplace (like DMV's appointment only shop for those purposes in West Sac)? Or does he/she just risk the VC 24004 citation and its higher fine if he/she doesn't fix it and gets cited for the same thing again (i.e., not requiring any certification that the basis for the violation on that vehicle was corrected)?

 
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And people wonder why respect for the law and law enforcement is at an all-time low. People just see cops as revenue officers, and any sort of safety message is gone.

 
And people wonder why respect for the law and law enforcement is at an all-time low. People just see cops as revenue officers, and any sort of safety message is gone.
You know -- THAT is a very valid point. The powers that be (whether in the legislature, executive or at the tops of these departments) aren't doing officers a lot of good in terms of public relations with this kind of crap. CHP has always had an issue out here, though. Just a couple days ago, I noticed that the CHP revenue collection station on I-80 westbound at Meadow Vista to Dry Creek off/on ramps has been augmented by a new LIDAR revenue operation eastbound at the Dry Creek overpass. One could live handsomely on what they must generate in revenue every weekend. They certainly have a lot of patrol units tied up generating revenue in this one location.

 
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Why is it that people always assume tickets are given to generate revenue for the organization that issues the citation?

I thought CHP specifically didn't receive revenue as a function of tickets? I thought their funding was from others sources including vehicle registration.

Part of what annoys me about these political threads...even when they have some slightly tangible relation to motorcyclists....is they still tend to spout unsubstantiated crap littered with assumptions.

I don't even necessarily agree with the campaign, but you have a beef....why don't people take it up with their elected representative that enacted the policy?

And if somebody thinks ticket money from a CHP citation goes back to them....show me the proof. I found easily one source that says it doesn't.

I'm just sayin'. ;)

 
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Why is it that people always assume tickets are given to generate revenue for the organization that issues the citation?
I thought CHP specifically didn't receive revenue as a function of tickets? I thought their funding was from others sources including vehicle registration.

Part of what annoys me about these political threads...even when they have some slightly tangible relation to motorcyclists....is they still tend to spout unsubstantiated crap littered with assumptions.

I don't even necessarily agree with the campaign, but you have a beef....why don't people take it up with their elected representative that enacted the policy?

And if somebody thinks ticket money from a CHP citation goes back to them....show me the proof. I found easily one source that says it doesn't.

I'm just sayin'. ;)
I'm sure not saying that revenue generated from citations goes back to the department doing the citation. But my example on I-80, at a 6 lane wide and straight section of the road, taking up as many as 7 patrol units seems more likely devoted to shooting ducks in a barrel (with LIDAR) to issue citations that do generate revenue. Seems there are more resources devoted in that one duck shooting location than make sense in light of the alternative of putting the same number of units over a much greater part of the highway. And this is a REGULAR operation, not the occasional operation apparently intended to show presence and encourage safer driving.

As to constituents addressing complaints to elected representatives, I think I'll decline to take this thread that deep into the political arena. But you are talking about revenue in a revenue strapped state and time.

Unfortunately, in my business, I have occasion to deal with government with some frequency, esp. with their regulations. Politics IS an issue -- if not always, then nearly always. And while I doubt that it's the officers coming up with this new enforcement scheme, I'd not be surprised to find some political link by someone reasonably high up (with ambitions) seeking to kiss some political heinie in an effort to please the next higher up heinie and move his own career in that direction. Seems it works that way a LOT in what I get to see.

If what motorgod mentions were simply to remediate harmful modifications, then why wouldn't it continue to be treated as a correctable violation? With stuff like aftermarket exhaust systems, there's a DMV check procedure all set up for this. But is it just coincidence that DMV expenditures for those certifications would apparently be reduced, fines increased and points increased? It also seems like some of the main contributors of funds (for LIDAR units, etc.), like insurance companies, might just benefit as well ('spose they contribute campaign funds, too?1). Fines would be greater, traffic school revenues would be increased, and DMV certification cost for the big repairs would go down. Lotsa good political chow there to chew and distribute. I've been involved in community planning programs pretty heavily in the past pro bono, and the number one thing I came away with (even in much less difficult financial times) was how very much the budget (revenues and expenditures) affected every part of anything being considered.

You asked, Iggy, and that's my honest thoughts -- that revenue is the larger part of the motivation passing programs like this down to the rank and file who must execute them.

FJR and motorcycle content: Both my FJR and my XX have aftermarket 4-2-1 full systems. Both bikes are 49 states models and the systems reduced weight and increased power; the FJR had cats and is now cooler standing at a stop in the summer with less heat radiating up. I still have both OEM systems, and intend one day to put them back on (and whether it is a correctable citation or not wouldn't likely affect that decision or timing2) -- right now, I'm saving those expensive systems from age and wear. Taking a look at the statutes, it appears that anyone running aftermarket running lights, esp. if high intensity, is also a good target. Glad I never installed the HIDs on the XX, I guess.

Per VC 24004, after getting the ticket, just about all you get to do is drive it home or to a garage to fix it. Wonder what that means for a resident of another state touring into California with illegal aftermarket goodies who gets cited on day 1 of the 3 days he planned on being here before heading home?

1 There's your political "speech" against which a mere letter from a concerned constituent is somewhat disadvantaged.

2 EDIT to ADD: Taking a closer look at VC 24004, maybe it WOULD affect my decision (at least to the extent I was ever inclined to reinstall the aftermarket systems). It appears that under the scheme motorgod described, then under section 24004, it's not going to matter if you fixed it and then reinstalled the offending aftermarket stuff. Looks like you'd be in trouble with the same vehicle sporting a part that constitutes the same violation you got tagged for the first time. In other words, unlike a DMV required inspection where you could take the pipes off, get it inspected and then reinstall them, this scheme would seem to prevent that. So, maybe there is an enforcement component that is not all revenue generation.

 
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I don't even necessarily agree with the campaign, but you have a beef....why don't people take it up with their elected representative that enacted the policy?
Well one similar issue here is the local fishwrap (Orlando Sentinel) pushing for stoplight cameras. Nobody I know wants them, and the comments on the articles/editorials are uniformly negative and DO NOT WANT, but who do you think the politicians listen to? The paper harps, and harps, and harps, and harps on this issue incessantly.

I personally have written the mayor and my rep in Tallahassee against the cameras, but I'm probably the only one, since most Floridians are illiterate. (well, maybe not... but do I have to start telling "hanging chad" jokes? :) )

Now intensity has gone down since commuter rail (another Slantinel "hot issue") got totally shot down by the voters with extreme prejudice, but apparently the editors have a brother or something in the stoplight camera business from how much they push it. Actually... I do kind of wonder what I could dig up on them, because there honestly has to be some reason.

Edit: stoplight cameras, not speed cameras. Sorry.

 
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Tinted windows, though? I understood Cali's laws on tinting to allow it EXCEPT for the windshield and front seat drivers and passenger windows (which is how my Subaru Outback wagon is set up, primarily to keep it cooler inside it during the summer). Am I missing something, or did your son have the front ones tinted?
If I understand correctly, this is the way it should be but one would be amazed at how many cars there are with ALL windows tinted. Some have extremely deep tint which makes it impossible to see inside. Imagine how scary THAT would be for an officer making a traffic stop. There is no way that the officer even has a hint of what is facing him/her from the inside.

When riding, I will often look at the driver's face to see what's what. Do they appear to be paying attention? Are they totally out to lunch? Appearance of aggression? Every little clue helps when you're defending your personal space on the road.

 
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Tinted windows, though? I understood Cali's laws on tinting to allow it EXCEPT for the windshield and front seat drivers and passenger windows (which is how my Subaru Outback wagon is set up, primarily to keep it cooler inside it during the summer). Am I missing something, or did your son have the front ones tinted?
If I understand correctly, this is the way it should be but one would be amazed at how many cars there are with ALL windows tinted. Some have extremely deep tint which makes it impossible to see inside. Imagine how scary THAT would be for an officer making a traffic stop. There is no way that the officer even has a hint of what is facing him/her from the inside.

When riding, I will often look at the driver's face to see what's what. Do they appear to be paying attention? Are they totally out to lunch? Appearance of aggression? Every little clue helps when you're defending your personal space on the road.
Yep, I agree on all counts.

 
WA has spent money to for the state patrol to get more unmarked cars. The reason is to increase revenue. They look at the last time they were raised correct for the time since the last increase , most it is around 5 years and they update the fee. Granted it all goes to the general fund and is appropriated, but if it makes money it is almost a sure bet. If it not for the money, why know when the economy is in the tank , people have fewer dollars and the states need the cash. Why did these things become an issue all of a sudden? Why the higher fines? Tinted windows have been around in CA for decades, I grew up and lived in the state for 40 years, I understand how it works I worked for a Congressman and Mayor at one time. Most departments do not have a ticket number they have to hit, but they are evaluated based on the low performers and high performers based on peers. If Joe gives out 20 citations a day the mean is 12 and Sally gives out 5 , Sally is viewed as not preforming as well and told to improve her diligence. Most of the guys I grew up with are LEO's and a son. Speed cams and the like, I have a real issue with on many levels. Look to the UK where they have many more and all the issues and corruption.

 
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... Granted it all goes to the general fund and is appropriated, but if it makes money it is almost a sure bet. ...
With one small difference. Local agencies (cities and counties) get a percentage (around 10% of the ticket value) for each citation. (Sorry Iggy I couldn't find the RCW, but it is in there somewhere). For example on a $121 speeding ticket, the local agency would get about $10 and the rest goes to the general fund and court systems.

 
With one small difference. Local agencies (cities and counties) get a percentage (around 10% of the ticket value) for each citation. (Sorry Iggy I couldn't find the RCW, but it is in there somewhere). For example on a $121 speeding ticket, the local agency would get about $10 and the rest goes to the general fund and court systems.
Yes, that's about right for WA. I won't quibble over the exact percentages. I remember seeing the stats sometime ago too.

But the larger point is 10% is a totally different ballgame than 100%. At say $12 a ticket cut....it's not nearly the incentive to do it just for revenue.

So, two out of two discussed states that seem to take the step of having a check and balance to the erroneous public perception that traffic ticket proceeds just all go in the pockets of the ticketing agency. Dare I project that most are actually like this? I would bet the majority are.

My quibble remains with folks that just instantly blurt out the tired old refrain, "They're doing it for the revenue!" without bothering to dig a bit deeper and see the larger and more nuanced system complexity...as you clearly have done....thank you.

So, back to the OP....there could be myriad other reasons CHP are doing the program. I'd look to YOU...YOUR government for an answer. (or here for WA folks)

 
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I'm always amazed when people get upset about the police officers (GASP) enforcing laws!!! It's just humorous to me how people feel that the only laws that should be enforced are ones that benefit themselves. God forbid you get a ticket for not having working lights on your license plate. Man that pisses you off!!! Unless you're the guy who couldn't identify the car in a hit and run cause the lights were out and you couldn't see the license plate. Then it makes sense. I don't see it as them as "shenannagins". I see it as enforcing laws. If it's against the law, don't do it. Not too hard of a concept, except if the law inconvenies you. Forget about those people the law was made to help and protect. It makes MY life more dificult. Sigh. Lovely world we live in.

Alexi -> the guy who got hit on his bike because a kid didn't want to obey the law and felt the need to make an illegal left becuase he was late for work. And almost got hit yesterday by a guy going the wrong way on a one way cause it was SOOO far around the block the right way.

 
Thanks for the heads-up, motorgod. I suppose we'll hear about it shortly after they fully implement it. Sounds like your son was in the first wave of this enforcement. Tinted windows, though? I understood Cali's laws on tinting to allow it EXCEPT for the windshield and front seat drivers and passenger windows (which is how my Subaru Outback wagon is set up, primarily to keep it cooler inside it during the summer). Am I missing something, or did your son have the front ones tinted?
Wondering about what ALL it means that it's not a correctable citation, though. I'm assuming that the cited violator still has to make the repairs (e.g., reinstall the OEM exhaust). But does he/she then have to get that confirmed someplace (like DMV's appointment only shop for those purposes in West Sac)? Or does he/she just risk the VC 24004 citation and its higher fine if he/she doesn't fix it and gets cited for the same thing again (i.e., not requiring any certification that the basis for the violation on that vehicle was corrected)?
I have no problem with my son getting the ticket for the windows adjacent to the driver being tinted. I warned him it would happen and it did. My issue is the new task force policy to make the citation non-correctable. In the past most, if not all equipment violations, are correctable. You fix the problem, find a cop, he signs off that the correction was made. You pay a small processing fee, usually less than $50.00, turn-in the signed off ticket and go on your merry way. The citation never shows on your driving record and life is good.

With this new policy, the same mechanical violation is made non-correctable. The fine is much higher, in my son's case it was $280.00. The difference now is that this violation will show on his driving record. It is not a point violation so his insurance should not be affected.

So now, lets say he gets stopped for any other violaton and he did not remove the window tinting. The cop runs his license and sees the prior violation for tinted windows. The cop can now cite him for 24004 CVC. This code essentially says that he must drive his vehicle straight home and not put it back on the road until the correction is made. The fine is substantially higher, over double the $280.00 fine.

My issue is the reasoning behind the new policy. I can't find any. Why the change? Why is grant money being spent on this when teachers are being laid off? Why is this just being pushed by a specially assembled task force? I know CHP is not funded from traffic tickets and local jurisdictions see only a fraction of traffic court fines. But I do know where a large portion of the fine goes, and that is to the States general fund.

So, my advice to all of you who have after-market exhaust, is I hope you kept your stock exhaust. Because 24004 says you can't put your bike back on the road until the corrections are made.

 
No one said CHP gets the money my broke di@k home state does. I cant believe that they would spend time trying to enforce these laws. Why is there a law against flush mounted turn signals, as if any cager uses their turn signal anyways. I never could understand why non-Californians hated California until I moved away. My outlook is it's a great place to visit but I have no desire to live in that place again.

 
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