State Bill Would Ban Aftermarket Exhaust

[Silver Penguin]

Why does the new law have to be specifically targeted at motorcycles? Why not substitute 'vehicle' for 'motorcycle' and get ALL the noise polluters nailed at the same time?

 

[Happy Rider]

this is another example of brain dead legislators writing yet another law because the ones already on the books aren't enforced.

does anyone really believe an open piped motorcycle (harley or otherwise) is not ALREADY in violation of noise ordinances already on the books in virtually every municipality?

personally I'm tired of hearing unmuffled V-twins from blocks away and would welcome action by the LEO's. I can't understand why they continue to allow the obnoxious noise makers.

If the LEOs won't enforce, yet the populous wants enforcement, what options are you left with?

Pretty much the only option left here was killing the problem via legislation. Nothing really brain dead about that.

It sucks for those of us who are responsible.

IMO - LEOs don't enforce it because many aspire to be (or are already part of) the problem. Anyhow, time is apparently better spent writing 5mph over tickets via a speed trap - you know, the real problem on our roadways.

Read post #6 for an explanation about why the current law is not enforced. I think the new law is crap and should not have been passed. Very few agencies have the proper tool, a decibel meter, to determine the actual noise level of the exhaust system in question. Trying to enforce a noise issue without a decibel meter is like trying to enforce speed without radar, lidar, or pacing. Don’t blame the LEO’s, blame the legislature for passing laws that are difficult or impossible to enforce.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Mike - The Wallaby gloves are better, just sayin'

An' they fit like a . . . like a, well, they fit real well.

Go on Mike... they fit like a marsupial glove or pouch as it may be.

Why does the new law have to be specifically targeted at motorcycles? Why not substitute 'vehicle' for 'motorcycle' and get ALL the noise polluters nailed at the same time?

Jill you silly person. That has logic to it, remember who what we're dealing with here... :dribble:

 

[rickysnickers]

Why does the new law have to be specifically targeted at motorcycles? Why not substitute 'vehicle' for 'motorcycle' and get ALL the noise polluters nailed at the same time?

That's the ridiculous part, 'cause like you said it's already covered. Here's what 27150 says already:

27150. ( a ) Every motor vehicle subject to registration shall at all

times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant operation and

properly maintained to prevent any excessive or unusual noise, and

no muffler or exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass,

or similar device.

( B ) Except as provided in Division 16.5 (commencing with Section

38000) with respect to off-highway motor vehicles subject to

identification, every passenger vehicle operated off the highways

shall at all times be equipped with an adequate muffler in constant

operation and properly maintained so as to meet the requirements of

Article 2.5 (commencing with Section 27200), and no muffler or

exhaust system shall be equipped with a cutout, bypass, or similar

device.

( c ) The provisions of subdivision ( B ) shall not be applicable to

passenger vehicles being operated off the highways in an organized

racing or competitive event conducted under the auspices of a

recognized sanctioning body or by permit issued by the local

governmental authority having jurisdiction.

Basically, you have to have an operational muffler. Now for 27151:

27151. ( a ) No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor

vehicle in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted

by the motor of the vehicle so that the vehicle is not in compliance

with the provisions of Section 27150 or exceeds the noise limits

established for the type of vehicle in Article 2.5 (commencing with

Section 27200). No person shall operate a motor vehicle with an

exhaust system so modified.

( B ) For the purposes of exhaust systems installed on motor

vehicles with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less

than 6,000 pounds, other than motorcycles, a sound level of 95 dbA or

less, when tested in accordance with Society of Automotive Engineers

Standard J1169 May 1998, complies with this section. Motor vehicle

exhaust systems or parts thereof include, but are not limited to,

nonoriginal exhaust equipment.

As for the removal of cat converters, that's covered in 27156( B ). Essentially, you can't remove it.

The above ( B ) section says "other than motorcycles." It's been said by the courts that I have been in, that the SAE standard is for cars only. There's a manufacturers recommended sound level for mc's, but it's not tested like cars, that I'm aware of.

I have written tickets to the straight pipe crowd and as long as you can articulate the level of noise, i.e. setting off numerous car alarms, being able to hear if from x amount of blocks away, etc, the courts have upheld the ticket.

I'm sure this will probably upset some, but will be good news to others. Think of it this way, do you enjoy the that person's mega bass heavy rap from about 100' away or more, rattling your helmet, car windows, or house? It's the same sort of thing.

Rick

 

[rickysnickers]

Found this too...

27202. For the purposes of Section 27200, the following noise

limits shall apply to any motorcycle, other than a motor-driven

cycle, manufactured:

(1) After 1969, and before 1973 ...... 88 dbA

(2) After 1972, and before 1975 ...... 86 dbA

(3) After 1974, and before 1986 ...... 83 dbA

(4) After 1985 ....................... 80 dbA

Rick

 

[FJRBluesman]

Good stuff Snikers.

The one thing that gets me is they are getting quieter.

Also, setting off car alarms is becoming quite easy now. Some alarms are so sensitive that wind, or just local vibration (passing by) can set them off, or churping.

Just shows to go ya, some bad apples are spoiling the bunch.

 

[BwanaDik]

The Gov signed a number of bills today, did this one pass?

 

[tmc]

yes

 

[oldryder]

A supreme court justice (I can't remember which one) once said of ****ography ..."I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

ditto for excessively loud motorcycles; you don't need a decibel meter when the bikes noise rattles windows and drowns out the radio in your car. If all the LEO's did was consistently bust the really outrageously loud bikes that would probably put an adequate damper on the problem.

this is another example of brain dead legislators writing yet another law because the ones already on the books aren't enforced.

does anyone really believe an open piped motorcycle (harley or otherwise) is not ALREADY in violation of noise ordinances already on the books in virtually every municipality?

personally I'm tired of hearing unmuffled V-twins from blocks away and would welcome action by the LEO's. I can't understand why they continue to allow the obnoxious noise makers.

If the LEOs won't enforce, yet the populous wants enforcement, what options are you left with?

Pretty much the only option left here was killing the problem via legislation. Nothing really brain dead about that.

It sucks for those of us who are responsible.

IMO - LEOs don't enforce it because many aspire to be (or are already part of) the problem. Anyhow, time is apparently better spent writing 5mph over tickets via a speed trap - you know, the real problem on our roadways.

Read post #6 for an explanation about why the current law is not enforced. I think the new law is crap and should not have been passed. Very few agencies have the proper tool, a decibel meter, to determine the actual noise level of the exhaust system in question. Trying to enforce a noise issue without a decibel meter is like trying to enforce speed without radar, lidar, or pacing. Don’t blame the LEO’s, blame the legislature for passing laws that are difficult or impossible to enforce.

 

[Ignacio]

A supreme court justice (I can't remember which one) once said of ****ography ..."I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

ditto for excessively loud motorcycles; you don't need a decibel meter when the bikes noise rattles windows and drowns out the radio in your car. If all the LEO's did was consistently bust the really outrageously loud bikes that would probably put an adequate damper on the problem.

It seems that colorful Supreme Court characters can say that stuff in oral arguments that are also part of a larger written option and national narrative.

However, closer to the local level something without an objective and fairly easy to measure standard is difficult and often exploited by enterprising defense attorneys. LEO's could go on a ticket writing campaign, but unless those tickets hold up in local district court...they're not only thrown out, but end up costing more to undo all the tickets that weren't up to snuff.

One thing we had locally was a db standard for excessively loud car stereos, but outfitting every cop with db meters was a PITA. The standard changed to one of a cop hearing at a distance of like 250 feet. That then was easy to measure since they have speed lasers in their cars measure distance accurately to a few feet. It's a standard that is easy to measure and holds up in court well. It was fairly elegant actually!

However, this varying db standard cat is out of the bag and will be hard to enforce.

 

[tmc]

I didn't see happy rider's post.

But Old Ryder hits it pretty much on the head.

I DO blame LEOs, because they could nab these guys with or without a DB meter. If this happened enough, it would likely be an effective deterrent.

It's selective enforcement - they choose to write the ticket, or not. As Rick said, if he can articulate why he feels the noise is above legal limits, it's entirely possible the judge will side with the LEO.

As for the law - well this gives LEOs an effective tool to write a fix-it ticket, forcing the offender to return the bike to stock and get it signed off by a LEO, and paying the small admin fee/fine. It sucks that it has come down to this, but I think the brappp brapp and squiddy noise parade has brought it upon all of us.

PS: there were no DB meters used when I got a ticket as a kid for too loud a car stereo, but I sure enough stopped playing it that loud....

 

[Happy Rider]

A supreme court justice (I can't remember which one) once said of ****ography ..."I can't define it but I know it when I see it."

ditto for excessively loud motorcycles; you don't need a decibel meter when the bikes noise rattles windows and drowns out the radio in your car. If all the LEO's did was consistently bust the really outrageously loud bikes that would probably put an adequate damper on the problem.

It seems that colorful Supreme Court characters can say that stuff in oral arguments that are also part of a larger written option and national narrative.

However, closer to the local level something without an objective and fairly easy to measure standard is difficult and often exploited by enterprising defense attorneys. LEO's could go on a ticket writing campaign, but unless those tickets hold up in local district court...they're not only thrown out, but end up costing more to undo all the tickets that weren't up to snuff.

One thing we had locally was a db standard for excessively loud car stereos, but outfitting every cop with db meters was a PITA. The standard changed to one of a cop hearing at a distance of like 250 feet. That then was easy to measure since they have speed lasers in their cars measure distance accurately to a few feet. It's a standard that is easy to measure and holds up in court well. It was fairly elegant actually!

However, this varying db standard cat is out of the bag and will be hard to enforce.

Ignacio is correct. It all depends on the court. Every judge is different and the way they interpret the law can be 180 degrees different from judge to judge. Some let everything go and others drop the hammer. I've even heard judges say things like: "Before I pronounce you guilty do you have anything to say." or "I do believe that you are guilty but I'm going to let this be your warning." In my area the judge wants proof, not just something you heard by ear. It's frustrating because I know what a loud straight pipe sounds like, but the judges don't think this is reasonable. They want to know exactly how loud. The only LEOs that I know of that have been successful in court are the local Sonora PD Officers who use decibel meters. Speed enforcement is the same. Some areas hammer you at 10 mph over the limit and some don’t even bother until 20 mph over. It all depends on where you commit the crime. I’ve seen drunk driver get 126 days house arrest for killing a passenger and I’ve seen drunk drivers get 8 month in jail for breaking a passengers jaw in a crash. There truly is no uniformity in the way laws are interpreted, prosecuted, and enforced.

 

[rickysnickers]

Good stuff Snikers.

The one thing that gets me is they are getting quieter.

Also, setting off car alarms is becoming quite easy now. Some alarms are so sensitive that wind, or just local vibration (passing by) can set them off, or churping.

Just shows to go ya, some bad apples are spoiling the bunch.

I completely agree with you! And yes, some car alarms are even more annoying than loud pipes!!!!!!!!!!

Rick