Clutch not disengaging

[VanHarlan]

Got my Feej back yesterday form the dealer after 10 days in the shop - they soaked the plates over the entire weekend and now she shifts silky smooth - no hangs, no hard downshifts - hopefully that will do the trick - I'f say she's better than new right now.

 

[KY Ridge-runner]

I found this forum researching a sticking clutch on my 07, 3300mi's. I see several people are having this problem. I bought the bike this summer & have only had it 3mo's. The sticky clutch had only been an annoyance, until two weeks ago. It was the 1st cold snap we had in southern indiana, 40F. I fired the bike up at 6am to ride home from work, put my gear on, rocked it off the tripod, pulled in the clutch, dropped it in gear, and it blasted off across the parking lot! It went about 12ft before I grabbed a fist full of front brake & choked the engine down. The clutch lever was pulled the entire time. I was completely off-gaurd and dropped the bike on its right side and narrowly missed the Ford pickup that was passing by! I've vacuum bled the brake fluid twice and changed oil twice. My dealer (Obermeyer Yamaha 1-866-YAMAHA6) has it right now. He was nice enough to give me a V-Star loaner to ride while he checks mine out.

Has annyone determined the cause or fix to this? Be carefull, don't let it get you!

:glare:

 

[KY Ridge-runner]

I got my bike back last week & it seems to be doing fine now. They did a clutch soak & researched the Yamaha microfisches. In 2006 they changed the engine clutch cylinder, but did not change the hand pump. Obermeyer feels that the larger engine cylinder should have required a larger hand pump to get the right amount of displacement to the clutch. I've read that several people have had the problem recur after a few thousand miles, so I'm not optimistic that it's fixed. The dealer also told me that the R-1, which has a similar clutch, has been having the same issues. I was told the clutch is partial wet-bath, but recieves most of its lubrication from a port on the shaft inside the clutch. So, if the clutch plates are not being seperated enough oil will not get to them and they will get dry and stick. We are waiting on Yamaha's response. For what it's worth...

 

[otrfjr]

Thanks for the update & please keep us posted on Yamaha's response!

I got my bike back last week & it seems to be doing fine now. They did a clutch soak & researched the Yamaha microfisches. In 2006 they changed the engine clutch cylinder, but did not change the hand pump. Obermeyer feels that the larger engine cylinder should have required a larger hand pump to get the right amount of displacement to the clutch. I've read that several people have had the problem recur after a few thousand miles, so I'm not optimistic that it's fixed. The dealer also told me that the R-1, which has a similar clutch, has been having the same issues. I was told the clutch is partial wet-bath, but recieves most of its lubrication from a port on the shaft inside the clutch. So, if the clutch plates are not being seperated enough oil will not get to them and they will get dry and stick. We are waiting on Yamaha's response. For what it's worth...

 

[ELP_JC]

Obermeyer feels that the larger engine cylinder should have required a larger hand pump to get the right amount of displacement to the clutch.

That's why our clutch engages near the grip. And yes, soaking clutch plates is just a bandaid; never heard of the need to soak plates on a new motorcycle. Or an old one for that matter. Leave the damn bike parked for a month and there you go again. Guess Yamaha just wants the warranty to expire, and then they'll have the lame 'it's a wear item' excuse and not cover it. Remember my words.

If I ever get those symptoms, no way I'm messing with my clutch only to get temporary relief (plus the risk of a new problem, like the vibration one of our brethren experienced). Would just buy a new slave from an '06 (or is it an '05?) and replace it. Should be a simple and cheap fix, and best of all, it'd solve the problem. Later.

JC

 

[KY Ridge-runner]

Obermeyer feels that the larger engine cylinder should have required a larger hand pump to get the right amount of displacement to the clutch.

That's why our clutch engages near the grip. And yes, soaking clutch plates is just a bandaid; never heard of the need to soak plates on a new motorcycle. Or an old one for that matter. Leave the damn bike parked for a month and there you go again. Guess Yamaha just wants the warranty to expire, and then they'll have the lame 'it's a wear item' excuse and not cover it. Remember my words.

If I ever get those symptoms, no way I'm messing with my clutch only to get temporary relief (plus the risk of a new problem, like the vibration one of our brethren experienced). Would just buy a new slave from an '06 (or is it an '05?) and replace it. Should be a simple and cheap fix, and best of all, it'd solve the problem. Later.

JC

There's merit to your comment for certain. I'll give Yamaha a chance, then I'll buy the slave. I had good results with them once before on a 1998 VMAX that had a wild wobble at 140mph. They didn't have to replace the faulty Bridgestone tires, but did.

 

[ELP_JC]

then I'll buy the slave.

Hey buddy, you know what? I'd give 'KY Ridge' a ring before buying, and ask him if he knows the year of the 'good' one. Or maybe you could do a search by P/N and find out which is the first prior year that has a different one from the '07. I'd like to know too in case it happens to me, which is apparently very likely, especially since I don't use the bike much at all. Will be following this thread. You should be okay for a while with the soaking, but next time you'll be out of warranty for sure. At least you'll have a precedent, in case you want to push for a 'good will' warranty repair, but I honestly prefer to buy the darn thing and do it myself on such an easy and relatively inexpensive job. Take care, and good luck man.

JC

 

[Pressman111]

I had that issue with my 07 and took my bike in to have it looked at and the dealer told me that is normal. I then called yamaha and complained to them. After going back and forth I then remembered that my conversation was being recorded and I told the rep. that I was almost involved in an accident when I was stuck in traffic. I told him that it was more then an anoyance NOW IT WAS AN SAFTY ISSUE. As soon as I said that he was very acomodating. The end result was they paid to have the clutch removed and inspected and found no problems. they reinstalled the clutch and gave me back the bike. The clutch is like silk. It sifts so smooth. I ask the dealer what they had done to it and they said they did nothing. This led me to believe that something must had been torqued wrong from the factory or something like that. I know from experiance that if everthing is not right with fastening the clutch and pressure plate you will have issues. I hope this helps. You should call yamaha. The number is in your owner manual.

 

[rocketman]

The clutch on my new 07 started to hang up around 500 miles. It started to get worse each day. And I had to have the lever set on 1. If it was on 5, the clutch would not disengage. It would hang for 2-3 seconds then finaly release or you could break it loose with the throttle. I did the first oil change with Yamalube 20W40 and it started to clear up after a few rides. Now it sticks until the engine is up to temperature, then after that it works very well. When cold the clutch disengages with the lever close to the grip. When it warms up it disengages further from the grip. I don't think it is from any expansion or contraction of the clutch disks or plates. I think it might be from the oil and the viscosity modifier additives. I want to try a fully synthetic oil for motorcyles to see what effect it might have.

 

[BBQ]

I got the Bike back from my Dealer and Here is what they found: "... called Yamaha and they requested a clutch inspection\tear down. Removed clutch and found all but two of the clutch plates stuck together with a black thick substance between the raised friction plates contacts. This felt similar to grease. When the inner pushrod pusher was removed it was full of thick amber grease, all on the back side of the pusher radiating around the inner clutch hub. All platesd and basket were removed and hand cleaned in the solvent tank to remove the grease contamination. All plates after cleaning were resoaked in Yamaha 10-30 four stroke oil and reassembled. The oil was drained from the unit and 10-30 was put in because the rider gets up early and the air temperature is below 45 degrees farenheit Tested the unit after sitting all night, unit clunks when going into gear but does not jump forward."

I rode the bike home, 30 miles, and clutch operates better than new. I hope this is not a temporary fix.

Good Luck guys.

BBQ

 

[ELP_JC]

Hey BBQ, thanks for that reply buddy. Contamination makes much more sense than oil, or being 'dry'. Having said that, more slave travel would probably make the problem disappear, but at least in your case, you shouldn't worry about it coming back IMO. Even if the clutch engages near the grip, plates should never stick. A harder clunk when cold, yes, but sticking, no, regardless of oil used.

And yes, if it's caked grease, clutch plates have to come off no matter what, so better to let Yamaha do it on their dime, and if it comes back again, then changing the slave is the way to go. Thanks again for this great info.

JC

 

[clutchless1]

I have been reading about some of these problems and have seen where some don't think there is a need to soak the clutch plates in oil before installing them. When new clutch plates are installed they must be soaked in oil regardless if it's a brand new bike or not. Clutch plates are bathed in oil as the bike runs, and yes they sit in oil all day long even if the engine is not running (that is if it's an oil bathed clutch, dry clutches aren't in oil) The clutch plates are sandwitched together when the clutch isn't pulled in so no oil can get to the inside of the plates themselves until the clutch is actually pulled in.

I don't know if this makes sense or not, but if the clutch plates aren't soaked in oil (the time these clutch plates are supposed to be in the oil before assembly varies by mechanics as well as manufacturers) for at least one hour before assembly, you stand a great chance of burning the fiber plates up immediately making them no-good. As I said the clutch plates sitting in your bike right now are not bathing in oil, yeah they are in oil but until the clutch is actually pulled in and held in oil can't get to the inside of the plates themselves. And no, doing this right now ain't going to help the plates if they are already messed up.

From what I've read about the black crap on the plates, basket, pushrod and where ever else I am thinking the plates have never been soaked before they were installed and possibly burned the surfaces basically welding the clutch plates together, it might have been an assembly line screw-up for a day, week or month.......Please remember, this is my theory and not an answer. Whith so many suppliers to manufacturers like Yamaha there could be a problem with the plates or just about anything else that makes the clutch work. I'm sure if there is a problem that is affecting so many FJR's, Yamaha will add the data up and send another form letter out letting everyone know what is going on. It's hard to understand, but it does take time to compile all of the data coming in for Yamaha to get the big picture.

 

[otrfjr]

It's hard to understand, but it does take time to compile all of the data coming in for Yamaha to get the big picture.

Granted, but they have been far slower to respond to this issue (compared to the altitude surging issue). I personally did not appreciate the mechanics at a certified (and certifiable) Yamaha dealership and then a Yamaha customer service representative trying to blame me for the fried plates in my bike at 1800 miles. That's ********, plain and simple. When the customer service person I dealt with finally saw the light, she asked me what I wanted. My response was very straight forward: I want Yamaha to publish a service bulletin on the issue alerting dealerships and owners about the possibility of dry plates. (I had to settle with free parts but pony up for labor.) However, imho, Yamaha, seeing that they could dodge the cost by attributing the problem with a "normal wear" part to owner abuse, has no interest in doing anything official. How could they compile data so quickly on the altitude surging but not the clutch?

 

[ELP_JC]

and yes they sit in oil all day long even if the engine is not running (that is if it's an oil bathed clutch, dry clutches aren't in oil)

This is incorrect. The clutch plates are ABOVE the top of the oil sump, even when engine is off (with engine running, oil level is much lower, as evidenced by a clear sight glass).

Want proof? Take a peek at your oil level sight glass, then at the clutch housing. Pretty obvious the latter is higher than the former. 'Wet clutch' only means clutch plates are exposed to oil, not 'bathed' in it. That's why I personally don't see the need for 'soaking', and even less as a solution to a clutch problem.

Again, I think BBQ hit the nail on the head: contamination is causing the problem. When plates are cleaned and soaked, the cleaning is most likely taking care of the problem, not the soaking. Take care.

JC

 

[KY Ridge-runner]

and yes they sit in oil all day long even if the engine is not running (that is if it's an oil bathed clutch, dry clutches aren't in oil)

This is incorrect. The clutch plates are ABOVE the top of the oil sump, even when engine is off (with engine running, oil level is much lower, as evidenced by a clear sight glass).

Want proof? Take a peek at your oil level sight glass, then at the clutch housing. Pretty obvious the latter is higher than the former. 'Wet clutch' only means clutch plates are exposed to oil, not 'bathed' in it. That's why I personally don't see the need for 'soaking', and even less as a solution to a clutch problem.

Again, I think BBQ hit the nail on the head: contamination is causing the problem. When plates are cleaned and soaked, the cleaning is most likely taking care of the problem, not the soaking. Take care.

JC

Scroll up to post #83 & read. If you change oil & filter, there is no more contamination than any other bikes wet clutch.

 

[ELP_JC]

Scroll up to post #83 & read. If you change oil & filter, there is no more contamination than any other bikes wet clutch.

Scroll up to post #89 and read. Doesn't sound like 'normal' contamination, does it?

And as I said, no oil should cause clutch plates to stick, which is pretty much what you described in your last sentence. The exception to that would be if oil was left for a gazillion miles, which was clearly not the case in the reported incidents. Later.

JC

 

[KY Ridge-runner]

Scroll up to post #83 & read. If you change oil & filter, there is no more contamination than any other bikes wet clutch.

Scroll up to post #89 and read. Doesn't sound like 'normal' contamination, does it?

And as I said, no oil should cause clutch plates to stick, which is pretty much what you described in your last sentence. The exception to that would be if oil was left for a gazillion miles, which was clearly not the case in the reported incidents. Later.

JC

I was there when my mechanic removed the plates. Dry spots on the outer plates. Just like a new plate fresh out of the box. Contamination has nothing to do with that.

 

[ELP_JC]

I was there when my mechanic removed the plates. Dry spots on the outer plates. Just like a new plate fresh out of the box. Contamination has nothing to do with that.

The problem I have with the 'dry plate' theory is it should be sticking since day 1. Why after 2, 3, or even 5K miles?

By the same token, I have a similar problem with the 'contamination'. It surely might take longer to react, but not 2K+ miles either.

I'm open to any cause, but would like to convincingly hear why it happens after so many miles. And most importantly, WHAT is causing the sticking. Are plates swelling? Or shrinking, causing their thickness to grow? What makes them swell all of a sudden that doesn't happen for thousands of miles? Do they shrink that fast when dipped in oil, since problem is reported cured after an oil bath by dealer? Do plates stay 'wet' forever after being dipped prior to assembly?

I'd like to open up a clutch that's not exhibiting probelms and see how it looks. That'd certainly provide some valuable insight.

I still insist this problem wouldn't happen at all if the clutch pushed the plates apart more (lever should engage about halfway, not that close to the grip), but it's still interesting to ponder why some bikes have the problem and most don't. Later gang.

JC

 

[road runner]

I think they are sticking from day 1 because mine did. It wasn't that bad at first but it was getting worse with miles. Also when I got mine it took a little time to figure out if there was a problem & what it was. Also I was told things like it needed to brake in, it will get better after oil change, big bikes shift hard, let it warm up, needs more travel, etc. etc. etc. the list goes on & on. By the time I went thru all of this I had 1600 miles on it before I took it to dealer for soak. I would say anyone that has this clutch issue may have gone thru a similar scenario & that is why it seems like it shows up after 2000 miles when it was there from day one & getting worse with miles.

I took mine in for soak at 1600 miles & now have 5500 miles on it & it still works great. I don't foresee having any more issues with it. The clutch worked great after soak & still does.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that dry disks will cause this. It's common knowledge wet clutch disks need to be soaked in oil before assembly. Do you have a service manual or have you ever done this. It says in manual to oil clutch plates & disks. Also it says to grease the end of push rod, this may be the grease that someone saw.

Just a thought. Maybe Yamaha needed to speed up production, because wasn't 07 the first year the FJR wasn't special order? If so I wonder if anyone knows production #'s for 05, 06, 07. Again just a thought.

 

[Zolton]

I bought my '06 with 6500 miles on it (sight unseen) a couple of months ago and now it has over 8000. I feel that it has this issue developing as well but the previous owner denies any problems. I'm going to do the clutch soak to see if things clear up. If there is contamination, I'll deal with that too. I'm under the impression that the plates should be soaked in 10W30 for an hour or so. Is this correct? If there is contamination, what do I use to clean things up with? I haven't read every post in this thread so if it's been mentioned already, I didn't see it.