odot
CC member # 17,----- DUP member # 7, mensa club m
Meet me in the asian district and we'll get some good doberman steak, eh scab.
Ethics in shopping? Helmets
- Thread starter Old Michael
- Start date
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fjrcouple
Active member
Tell them about the price you can get online including shipping and see if they will come down. Most will but don't expect them to match. If you don't use your local shops they will no longer be around. Then we wont have anyone to interact with but a computer screen.
JimLor
Well-known member
I've been treated well by Morton's BMW in Frederickburg VA. When all I had was my MSF Basic course experience, they let me ride 3 or 4 of their bikes - nice folks and go out of their way to help you out. I did decide on the Shoei 1000 by trying it one at their shop - and I did buy it thru helmet city for probably $40 60 cheaper. But, when prices are close, I will bite the bullet and buy thru Morton's because I do like to support locals. Example being the Olympia ASR jackets I just got for Lorie and for me. However, if the price difference is significant - I don't have a problem buying thru the web or elsewhere.
Randy
Well-known member
Mark,
You are aware that they pulled back on that, right?
You are correct that they pressured the dealer network and stopped them from on-line sales. Part of the reason might have been (probably was) because of the heat that the local dealers were putting on Arai. Another reason (maybe not the biggest reason, but, definitely a valid one) was because people were buying Arai's and not being properly fit. Then, people call up Arai bitching because their helmet is noisy, is uncomfortable, didn't perform well as a result of a crash, etc. I don't know about other manufacturers, but, Arai has a sizing process that the dealers must be trained in before they can become an authorized Arai dealer. You might be able to go to a local shop and try some helmets on to see what feels right, but, unless you are properly fitted (most people buy too big, many buy the wrong shape), you can't be guaranteed that you're getting the right helmet for your head.
Arai has since pulled back on the restriction and is allowing online sales again. Arai registered dealers (storefront and online) must provide a 1-time no-fee helmet exchange policy (return freight is prepaid). If the place you're buying from does not offer this service, then you aren't dealing with an official registered dealer and the warranty and support could be in jeopardy. Make sure the site, somewhere, has the 'Arai Helmets Registered e-dealer' logo somewhere on their site.
lotecredneck
Well-known member
In order to get those prices the mail order places buy them by the container load. This is simply not practical for most dealers as you buy them by brand so you will buy a container of Dunlop and one with Bridgestone etc. Not possible for 99% of the dealers.
Tony
Scab
I got nothin' here...
Understood. But you would really need to meet this set of individuals. As I said, they have worked HARD for me to have this attitude towards them.
I once asked about the labor guide time on a particular issue. The response was; "The what?"
I asked; "Do you use a labor guide or do you just make this stuff up?"
His REAL response; "Well, we just make most of this up. We checked, there's no one else around here to do this kind of work."
edit: Of course, this is probably better suited for a whole different thread: "Ethics in Business."
I once asked about the labor guide time on a particular issue. The response was; "The what?"
I asked; "Do you use a labor guide or do you just make this stuff up?"
His REAL response; "Well, we just make most of this up. We checked, there's no one else around here to do this kind of work."
edit: Of course, this is probably better suited for a whole different thread: "Ethics in Business."
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twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Tony, I don't mean to be contrary and educate me if I'm wrong, but don't dealers and e-tailers buy from distributors as far as tires are concerned? Consequently, neither will be buying container loads.
Parts411.com, for example, is merely a clearing house for orders. They stock damn near nothing, but offer rock bottom pricing. My conclusion here is the 'sell volume' theory of trying to make money is being employed... But in either case, unless the distributor offers a tiered discount system based on units ordered at one time or overall sales, each will be buying at the same discount. The selling price difference boils down to the fact that you brick and mortar guys have a vastly greater overhead to cover.
Correct?
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kenporider
Well-known member
[Tony
Tony, I don't mean to be contrary and educate me if I'm wrong, but don't dealers and e-tailers buy from distributors as far as tires are concerned? Consequently, neither will be buying container loads.
Parts411.com, for example, is merely a clearing house for orders. They stock damn near nothing, but offer rock bottom pricing. My conclusion here is the 'sell volume' theory of trying to make money is being employed... But in either case, unless the distributor offers a tiered discount system based on units ordered at one time or overall sales, each will be buying at the same discount. The selling price difference boils down to the fact that you brick and mortar guys have a vastly greater overhead to cover.
Correct?
TWN is correct. While manufacturers and distibuters do offer volume discounts, it's usually the "big box" concepts that get that priviledge at the higher discount range. Also, many e-tailers offer drop shipping and have zero overhead. I've been a retail sales manager for the last 17 years and can tell you there's no WAY a brick and morter can compete with the internet. Think about the costs involved.
Online only dealer: web devlopement cost, maintanance/server fees, credit card/check authorization fees, cost of goods.
Brick and morter: cost of fixtures, cost of construction, wages, rent and common area ( my last two stores were $60,000/mo. @ 5,000 sq. ft.), depreciation, local and state taxes, property insurance, workers comp. insurance, utilities, trash removal fees, cost of goods, freight charges, shrink (theft), employee benefits, the list goes on and on.
Typical margin on these types of items is 50% @ MSRP. These poor guys can't really afford to do better than 20% off on a large scale without taking a bath. IMO it's the e-tailer who's overcharging considering the costs involved.
Just the rantings of an old retailer
Tony, I don't mean to be contrary and educate me if I'm wrong, but don't dealers and e-tailers buy from distributors as far as tires are concerned? Consequently, neither will be buying container loads.
Parts411.com, for example, is merely a clearing house for orders. They stock damn near nothing, but offer rock bottom pricing. My conclusion here is the 'sell volume' theory of trying to make money is being employed... But in either case, unless the distributor offers a tiered discount system based on units ordered at one time or overall sales, each will be buying at the same discount. The selling price difference boils down to the fact that you brick and mortar guys have a vastly greater overhead to cover.
Correct?
TWN is correct. While manufacturers and distibuters do offer volume discounts, it's usually the "big box" concepts that get that priviledge at the higher discount range. Also, many e-tailers offer drop shipping and have zero overhead. I've been a retail sales manager for the last 17 years and can tell you there's no WAY a brick and morter can compete with the internet. Think about the costs involved.
Online only dealer: web devlopement cost, maintanance/server fees, credit card/check authorization fees, cost of goods.
Brick and morter: cost of fixtures, cost of construction, wages, rent and common area ( my last two stores were $60,000/mo. @ 5,000 sq. ft.), depreciation, local and state taxes, property insurance, workers comp. insurance, utilities, trash removal fees, cost of goods, freight charges, shrink (theft), employee benefits, the list goes on and on.
Typical margin on these types of items is 50% @ MSRP. These poor guys can't really afford to do better than 20% off on a large scale without taking a bath. IMO it's the e-tailer who's overcharging considering the costs involved.
Just the rantings of an old retailer
I debated the helmet issue myself when I was shopping for my last helmet. It was my first full face lid in decades and I wanted to make a good purchase. I read every thing I could on the internet and became pretty educated. The trouble is, I really needed to know how the different brands and models fit MY head. So, even after all that research, I really wanted to try the helmets on myself. I ended up at Cycle Gear where a very nice sales person helped me for a good while (30 minutes or more). As a result of that time I felt much more confident in which helmet suited me best. I knew I could get it $50 bucks cheaper online. I nicely mentioned this to the salesperson and asked if there was anything he could do. He reached under the counter, pulled out a local magazine, and tore a 20% off coupon from it. I think I ended up paying less than the online price (before the tax was added back anyway).
I left happy, with a great helmet. The store made a sale and a happy customer who will come back.
Too bad it doesn't always work that well.
Dan
I left happy, with a great helmet. The store made a sale and a happy customer who will come back.
Too bad it doesn't always work that well.
Dan
Hey! Details! What helmet did you buy, and what kind of price? I have a Cycle Gear near me, but they always seem to be high.
brazos parker
What??
I went to a local dealer when looking for a full face helmet to replace a flip-face helmet. After trying on several helmets, I decided on a Shoei RF-1000 that the salesperson was going to have to order. I told the salesperson I needed some time to think abt the purchase since the internet price was considerably lower than the sales tag. The salesperson calculated a new price, grossed it up for state sales tax and. lo and behold, he matched the internet price. I bought the helmet on the spot and now go back to that same dealer for tires. He charges abt $5 more per tire than internet prices.
Unfortunately, he only carries a limited amount of gear but I always check there before making any purchase decision. He earned my loyalty.
Unfortunately, he only carries a limited amount of gear but I always check there before making any purchase decision. He earned my loyalty.
Code:
Hey! Details! What helmet did you buy, and what kind of price? I have a Cycle Gear near me, but they always seem to be high.And I love the helmet. It flows great. I live in Florida and ride in the heat. That is one reason I had stayed away from the full face in the past. I won't say the RF-1000 is as cool as my half helmet, but to me it is excellent for a full face. It is also pretty quiet and fits me well. I would buy another in a second.
Dan
thompsonian
Mr. Christmas Pants
Well, I honestly just skimmed through all the replies on this thread, but I'll throw in my 2 pennies!
A buddy of mine just opened a shop here in town for this same reason. We got tired of being gouged by local dealers, having to drive 2 hours to Columbus to get what we want/need from Iron Pony, and not wanting to pay an arseload in shipping on items like tires and the like. I ALWAYS try to swing him my business when he can. He sells me tires at 15% over his cost, which I have seen what his costs are since I occasionally work for him Now I will go somewhere like Iron Pony and try items on since they have them in stock and readily available, but I don't normally make the trip up just for that. Usually a group will go to make a day trip out of it. Then I know just what size I need for said item, tell my buddy what I want, and I can usually get it for a few bucks cheaper. Downside: I have to wait a few days to get what I need. Upside: I keep him in business and help local economy and all that other stuff.
If anyone wants to check his prices for anything, www.865gear.com can't guarentee he's cheaper anywhere else, but he should be comparable.
Dave
A buddy of mine just opened a shop here in town for this same reason. We got tired of being gouged by local dealers, having to drive 2 hours to Columbus to get what we want/need from Iron Pony, and not wanting to pay an arseload in shipping on items like tires and the like. I ALWAYS try to swing him my business when he can. He sells me tires at 15% over his cost, which I have seen what his costs are since I occasionally work for him
Now I will go somewhere like Iron Pony and try items on since they have them in stock and readily available, but I don't normally make the trip up just for that. Usually a group will go to make a day trip out of it. Then I know just what size I need for said item, tell my buddy what I want, and I can usually get it for a few bucks cheaper. Downside: I have to wait a few days to get what I need. Upside: I keep him in business and help local economy and all that other stuff.If anyone wants to check his prices for anything, www.865gear.com can't guarentee he's cheaper anywhere else, but he should be comparable.
Dave
cougar8000
Well-known member
Here in IL, you get raped with out a lube when you go to the dealer. And then they expect you to thank them. So, hell no to buying locally.
That said I bought and still buy some parts from dealers outside IL simply because they have treated me right when I stop by there or was told by others that they treat people right.
That said I bought and still buy some parts from dealers outside IL simply because they have treated me right when I stop by there or was told by others that they treat people right.
cougar8000
Well-known member
Tony,
That might be a valid point. But when price is almost double and then they ask for 80 to mount them. I am sorry I have to go somewhere else. And that somewhere else is your shop sometimes BTW.
Is Brad still working? If yes, tell him Alex in Chicago says hello.
Huh? Sounds like you just argued my point!!! How can I be wrong if you are agreeing with me? :blink:
Case and point. I found a pair of boots I wanted...Tried them on at the local dealer. He quoted me $200+Tax. I watched the local online auction and bought the exact same boot (NIB!!!) delivered to the door for $48!!!!
200-48 = a GREAT savings!!!!
Morals??? The moral is, if you can save money by shopping around, then do it!
Just don't be too upset when there isn't a local store to try them on in anymore. That's all I'm saying. I am curious though, what is a local online auction? I am really only familiar with Ebay auctions. Do you have auctions that are local to your area? I admit there is alot about the web world I don't know, but I don't think I have local online auctions.
Of course, if I could have gotten the helmet I bought for 1/4 the price online, I would have had a really hard time buying it locally. In fact, I am sure I would not have. For a much smaller price difference though, I buy locally if it is something I need to try on or am not sure I really want.
I am loyal to a few online retailers as well, though, so I am not only loyal to the local guys. I just don't feel right going into a store and trying something out, figuring out the size or quality or whatever, then sitting at my computer to buy it. On the other hand, if I sit at my computer, do lots of research at a company's web site to determine which widget I need, then buy the widget at another online retailer who had nothing on their site to do research with, but who charges $5 less, I don't feel right about that either.
Others may not agree. I understand that. I just like to reward good service and good information. It is getting harder and harder to find these days. I think the "save every penny possible" mentality of most shoppers is killing the service side of things. For example, the death of the full service hardware store to places like Wal-Mart.
Sorry, off the soap box now.
Dan
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Randy
Well-known member
Another thing to keep in mind, when you buy from a non-authorized dealer for whatever widget you're buying, it's caveat emptor. You can't go crying the blues to the manufacturer when the seam rips out of a new leather jacket you bought off of cheapleatherguy on ebay.
BobbyBlue
Arrhythmia and Blues
I gotta put in my plug for the local Cycle Gear. I bought a Scorpion 400 from a local all brand dealer on clearance for under 100 bucks. I promply dropped the damn thing and busted off a side doohickey making the shield useless. I mentioned this while browsing in CG and the mgr tells me they are a Scorpion dealer now and to bring it in, I do and he orders the part and installs it for me when it comes in. Does he get my business? You bet, on almost everything. For me its about people, and they will try to reduce when shown internet prices on most things. But its about eye to eye for me. And I'm really glad we are all different, pretty boring place otherwise.
Blessings,
Bobby
Blessings,
Bobby
heretic
Well-known member
It looks to me like everybody is saying basically the same thing. We don't mind coming up with a few extra $$ in exchange for the service our local dealers provide, like being able to touch and try on. But our loyalty goes down the tube if we feel gouged. I also find that knowledgable and patient sales staff can get me to dig deeper. Bottom line, I prefer to support the dealers, but don't have any ethical problems with taking my business elsewhere. In my case, the shop that servces my cycle, Carey's in Ogden, are not the dealer where I bought my FJR. However, they got the mark up on my new trunk and will get list from me for the factory grip warmers that are next on my list.
The other guys weren't too bad, but as Scab pointed out (the other way around this time) these guys earned the right to gouge me a little with their superior service.
The other guys weren't too bad, but as Scab pointed out (the other way around this time) these guys earned the right to gouge me a little with their superior service.
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