Badcat
Well-known member
I just spoke with Yamaha Customer Service and the nice "product specialist" person said her techs had never heard of such a problem. WTF?
FJRF003.0: Ignition Failures on FJRs
- Thread starter Barabus
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Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
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cota95
RI Beach Pop
Ask them for a fax number and forward the NHSTA/ODI info to them.....they've heard of it.
palerider
Well-known member
Did you happen to get her name? Would be funny if a bunch of us called her to report this and had her tell all of us one after another that this problem's never been reported.
I suspect they're trained to say that about every issue.
TheAxeman
Well-known member
"Erica" told me the same thing when I questioned her about it. She "personally" had never heard of an ignition failure and has never received any paperwork from Yamaha indicating that it is a problem.
palerider
Well-known member
Just read your tagline. Sorry about your son.
tripntx
Well-known member
Just edited my original post on page 11 of this tread to add:
Dealer kept my bike 24 hrs, YES paid/covered the repair, dealer had ignition switch rekeyed before having me bring in my bike.
Dealer kept my bike 24 hrs, YES paid/covered the repair, dealer had ignition switch rekeyed before having me bring in my bike.
well i been reading about this ignition switch failure for a while. i know it will never happen to my fjr, but just in case i put a piece of wire and 2 wire nuts in my tool kit.
it happen.. this morning about 1/2 mile from home. everything quit. i push up on wires below switch and dash and lights come on. i cut back wire cover and use knife blade to cut across both brown and red wires together and and things came on. now i am confident to cut wires and use jumper wire and 2 wire nuts to get me going again.
suggestion.. carry insulated tool to cut wires, the red one is hot and will spark if it or uninsulated tool touches metal while cutting. it didnt blow a fuse..
this abrupt failure could be deadly in traffic.. it is a critical situation that should be addressed by yamaha now. if anyone gets killed or injured because of this failure that person or their family should become majority stock holder in yamaha.
thanks to this forum i was prepared and back on road in about 15 minutes.
2006
11200 miles
it happen.. this morning about 1/2 mile from home. everything quit. i push up on wires below switch and dash and lights come on. i cut back wire cover and use knife blade to cut across both brown and red wires together and and things came on. now i am confident to cut wires and use jumper wire and 2 wire nuts to get me going again.
suggestion.. carry insulated tool to cut wires, the red one is hot and will spark if it or uninsulated tool touches metal while cutting. it didnt blow a fuse..
this abrupt failure could be deadly in traffic.. it is a critical situation that should be addressed by yamaha now. if anyone gets killed or injured because of this failure that person or their family should become majority stock holder in yamaha.
thanks to this forum i was prepared and back on road in about 15 minutes.
2006
11200 miles
Zorlac
Well-known member
1) 2006
2) 15,000 miles +/-
3) Failed while running 50 mph on a congested SoCal fwy, in the fast lane no less.
Of course it's SoCal so I had a tailgater on my ass and suddenly no power and more critical NO BRAKE LIGHTS OR FLASHERS!
Thanks to AAA for fast response
4) I traced the issue to the ignition switch itself internally
5) Bike trailered to Yamaha of Montclair, Ca. Service Dept informed me that the switch had to be ordered and it would take a week. 3 days later they called
and said that they had "repaired" the original switch. $90 labor. Cool ! I picked up the bike and made it home with no issues. The next morning the
switch didn't work at all. Again trailered the bike to the dealer and they said "it needs a new switch". Obviously I was a bit irritated. A week later the
new switch was installed and they tried to charge me $175 + labor. No, no no. I eventually spoke to the manager and calmly explained my theory that
they should never have released the bike back to me with a half ass fix knowing it needed a new switch. The manager agreed and deleted the charge.
6) out of service for 2 weeks total
7) $90 initial labor, dealer paid for new switch and accompanying labor after a "sit down chat"
8) stock bike, no after market electrical
9) As for having different keys now for the ignition and the bags/tank, I was told to go to a locksmith to rekey the bags/tank. Are you kidding, I settled
down after a quick paced anger charged ride home (that always relaxes me). After living with different keys for 6 months, I am used to it. Actually
before I had different keys, I would always start the bike to warm up and then remember I needed to put something else in the bags, now I don't have to
shut the bike down to open the bags....
10) It was an inconvenience seeing as how I ride the FJR to commute to work, considering the price of gas. Dealing with dealer service was small a pain in
the ass, but I have my love back and she treats me just as well as before I let those grimy service guys put their mitts all over her.
2) 15,000 miles +/-
3) Failed while running 50 mph on a congested SoCal fwy, in the fast lane no less.
Of course it's SoCal so I had a tailgater on my ass and suddenly no power and more critical NO BRAKE LIGHTS OR FLASHERS!
Thanks to AAA for fast response
4) I traced the issue to the ignition switch itself internally
5) Bike trailered to Yamaha of Montclair, Ca. Service Dept informed me that the switch had to be ordered and it would take a week. 3 days later they called
and said that they had "repaired" the original switch. $90 labor. Cool ! I picked up the bike and made it home with no issues. The next morning the
switch didn't work at all. Again trailered the bike to the dealer and they said "it needs a new switch". Obviously I was a bit irritated. A week later the
new switch was installed and they tried to charge me $175 + labor. No, no no. I eventually spoke to the manager and calmly explained my theory that
they should never have released the bike back to me with a half ass fix knowing it needed a new switch. The manager agreed and deleted the charge.
6) out of service for 2 weeks total
7) $90 initial labor, dealer paid for new switch and accompanying labor after a "sit down chat"
8) stock bike, no after market electrical
9) As for having different keys now for the ignition and the bags/tank, I was told to go to a locksmith to rekey the bags/tank. Are you kidding, I settled
down after a quick paced anger charged ride home (that always relaxes me). After living with different keys for 6 months, I am used to it. Actually
before I had different keys, I would always start the bike to warm up and then remember I needed to put something else in the bags, now I don't have to
shut the bike down to open the bags....
10) It was an inconvenience seeing as how I ride the FJR to commute to work, considering the price of gas. Dealing with dealer service was small a pain in
the ass, but I have my love back and she treats me just as well as before I let those grimy service guys put their mitts all over her.
7xray
Well-known member
Here is some numerical data gleaned up through post 270:
2003: 6 failures at an average mileage for failure of 58,700 miles
2004: 3 failure, average = 25,000
2005: 1 failure reported at 22,580.
Now,
2006: 46 failures at an average of 17,800 miles
2007: 17 failures at 11,500.
[Edit 9/5/08] This shows 497 '06s and 408 '07s on the board.
Plotting the number of failures that occur in 5,000 mile blocks (e.g. for model year 2006, there were 8 failures in the 5K - 10K mileage block) shows:
Here are the cumulative totals for 2006 and 2007:
2003: 6 failures at an average mileage for failure of 58,700 miles
2004: 3 failure, average = 25,000
2005: 1 failure reported at 22,580.
Now,
2006: 46 failures at an average of 17,800 miles
2007: 17 failures at 11,500.
[Edit 9/5/08] This shows 497 '06s and 408 '07s on the board.
Plotting the number of failures that occur in 5,000 mile blocks (e.g. for model year 2006, there were 8 failures in the 5K - 10K mileage block) shows:
Here are the cumulative totals for 2006 and 2007:
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This morning I had breakfast with the local aid for Congressman Lucas of Oklahoma. After our group that I was with finished with our business I spoke to the the aid. I asked him if he would call the NHTSA and inquire about our problem with ignition switch failures. I detailed the problem and he said that is not good if you were in traffic. He said the NHTSA is one of the agencies that he is detailed to deal with and if I would email him the info to remind him he would call tomorrow. I sent him the email as requested. I requested that he "inquire" about a recall. Also, if he needed more info to call me. I would strongly urge everyone who has had one fail to document it on the NHTSA web site. I will keep you posted. Rick
Jackson
Well-known member
1911
Well-known member
Update-
When the ign switch failed, the first thing I did was to reach down to wiggle the ign switch harness. Even through the harness casing and leather gloves the harness was hot to the touch. I have no accessories drawing current through the switch.
Disassembly found the red wire separated from the switch plate. I'm conviced that wire wasn't pulled away, but was actually melted off. There is so much current flowing through the switch that it gets so hot the solder melts away from the contact. The solder joint on the brown wire appeared to be partially melted and the metal contact that slides across to connect the red and brown contacts was discolored by excessive heat. I'd love to post pics but my little camera won't focus closely enough to do any good. The wire separation has allready been well photo documented in this thread.
My dealer was kind enough to order a new switch for warranty replacement, at my request by phone, without having to see the bike, and make an appointment.
By the time the switch arrived, I had decided that just having the switch replaced under warranty wouldn't address the root cause of the problem. So, I soldered new wires on the back of the switch plate and added a relay to the circuit as others here (Brodie) have done. Now all the current that flows through the ignition switch is the small amount required to operate the pull-down coil side of the rely. Since I repaired my old switch, there are no key issues. I payed for the new switch to keep as a spare.
My failure was earlier in the year (and posted in this thread), but I filed my incident on the NHTSA website a few days ago.
At the rate this is going I will be very surprised if it doesn't turn into some kind of recall or at the very least a "voluntary" campaign "initiated" by Yamaha. They are a good company that builds great products and I harbor no ill feelings towards them, but it is certainly time for them to recognize that there is much more going on than an occasional failure. I find it odd that they would so willingly replace ECM's over altitude sickness with little issue, but they are resistant to owning up to a failure like this that can get someone killed.
At the rate this is going I will be very surprised if it doesn't turn into some kind of recall or at the very least a "voluntary" campaign "initiated" by Yamaha. They are a good company that builds great products and I harbor no ill feelings towards them, but it is certainly time for them to recognize that there is much more going on than an occasional failure. I find it odd that they would so willingly replace ECM's over altitude sickness with little issue, but they are resistant to owning up to a failure like this that can get someone killed.
I haven't taken the time to actually measure the max current through this connection, and agree that this may be part of the problem. I am still somewhat suspicious to cold solder joints which could possibly also generate heat... and possibly lead to the same result.
Removal of lead based solders for introduction of RoHS, the possibility of an improperly pre-tinned solder cup, or surface contamination may also be reasons. This would possibly make more sense since there are Gen II owners with, and without electrical additions experiencing the problem.
Perhaps someone with a sound switch, or using the secondary power relay could take an actual current measurement.
Removal of lead based solders for introduction of RoHS, the possibility of an improperly pre-tinned solder cup, or surface contamination may also be reasons. This would possibly make more sense since there are Gen II owners with, and without electrical additions experiencing the problem.
Perhaps someone with a sound switch, or using the secondary power relay could take an actual current measurement.
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Capt. Bob
Bilge pump. A novel idea.
Maybe I missed it or it should be another thread but is there a schematic for wiring in the relay for the ignition circuit?
1911
Well-known member
Doesn't specify Gen I or II but the general idea is the same:
https://www.fjr1300.info/FJR-wiring.html
https://www.fjr1300.info/misc/FJR-wiring.pdf
The ignition circuit is fed by a 50 amp fuse. The wires in the main harness appear to be at least 12 ga up to the connector that the ign sw plugs into. At this connector the wires drop down to about 16 ga. ALL the current that the loads shown in my crudely drawn diagram (and maybe more) has to flow through these small wires, solder joints, and switch sliding contact. WAY too much flowing through the switch IMHO.
It would be so easy for Yamaha to add a jumper harness with a relay between the mian and ign sw harnesses that I believe the legal dept must be behind the stonewalling-issuing a recall would admit to a defect, bringing on liability for future and past (that we don't know about) injuries caused by this failure.
Crudely drawn before(left)/after(right) diagram
Capt. Bob
Bilge pump. A novel idea.
1911
Thanks for posting the schematic.
I just want to be sure I understand.
You're splitting off of the #12 wire (red) from the battery with a #16 and running to the switch. Back out of the switch (again #16) to the relay.
The original #12 continues to the relay and meets up with the #12 brown (on different posts of course).
The relay is powered through the ign.switch and once closed, current now has another path to the bike's accessories and heat will be reduced through the switch and its contacts.
Key factor here is to have the proper size relay (rated current 50 amp +).
Thanks for posting the schematic.
I just want to be sure I understand.
You're splitting off of the #12 wire (red) from the battery with a #16 and running to the switch. Back out of the switch (again #16) to the relay.
The original #12 continues to the relay and meets up with the #12 brown (on different posts of course).
The relay is powered through the ign.switch and once closed, current now has another path to the bike's accessories and heat will be reduced through the switch and its contacts.
Key factor here is to have the proper size relay (rated current 50 amp +).
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