FJRF009.0: Ground Spider Research

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I just wanted to throw in a plug for RoadRunner and his grounding harness. I too had not had a problem but wanted peace of mind. Art's grounding harness is also well made and he was extremely helpful in answering questions and helping me through the install. Thanks Art.

 
Well, with my warranty expired all of 2 weeks ago, I just got bitten for the second time!!

I've called and left a message for 'my person' at Industry Canada and have written to my dealer (copy to IC) as well. I had put them on notice that I suspected an possible problem - and, as it happens, my new battery was discharging.

What makes THIS occurrence all the more annoying is that it wiped out my headlight modulator - - - I expect Yamaha to pay for a replacement, and will say so, but I suspect that they will refuse.

II will now edit my signature to include a SECOND spider.

 
Howie;

I have specifically avoided implementing possible aftermarket solutions for reasons related to preventing Yamaha from being let off the hook for their problem.

I have been promoting reporting the matter and complaining about the life-threatening potential for the problem - after all, if Yamaha says there's no problem, then there must not be any need to proactively take preventative measures . . . .

I know that Industry Canada is about to turn up the heat on Yamaha - this will probably help the cause - I for one want to see a recall so that the 90% of FJR owners who don't come here won't have their safety and well being compromised.

Or, to put it in a much simpler term: No.

 
I guess this is turning in to the Gen II version of "The Tick" with Yamaha Corp. They just don't seem to want to own up to the problem.

I understand why you didn't **** around with your harness, but in a way, I bet you wish you had. Major suckage to be going through that **** again.

What bit you this time? S4??

 
Howie;

I have specifically avoided implementing possible aftermarket solutions for reasons related to preventing Yamaha from being let off the hook for their problem.

I have been promoting reporting the matter and complaining about the life-threatening potential for the problem - after all, if Yamaha says there's no problem, then there must not be any need to proactively take preventative measures . . . .

I know that Industry Canada is about to turn up the heat on Yamaha - this will probably help the cause - I for one want to see a recall so that the 90% of FJR owners who don't come here won't have their safety and well being compromised.

Or, to put it in a much simpler term: No.
So...you didn't install the aftermarket fix for this problem, hoping it would happen again so you can make your point to Industry Canada and Yamaha. It happened again, and now you're complaining?

I understand you want to drive the point so that Yamaha fixes the problem via an OEM solution, but is that worth risking your own life?

 
Update:

Well, first of all I suppose I ought to respond to the two posts above this . . . .

No. I did not put in a ground enhancing device. Why? Because Yamaha came and inspected my once-repaired harness and walked away syaing they saw no issues . . . . and who am I to argue, especially when my machine is under warranty. They don;t want to listen to an electrical engineer? Then they need to sit up and act responsably.

When they got the follow up letter from my dealer they not only were unhappy aboutthat, but they started commenting about my reflector housing, claming it was my HID lighting that caused the polycarbonate to craze on the inside.

Now, beyond the fact that there is less heat generated from a D2S than there is from an H4 (one dissipated 35 watts, producing 3200 lumens, the other 55 or 60 watts, producing 1100 lumens), had Yamaha actually been observant when they checked my bike they'd have noticed three things;

1. My bike has a headlight modulator

2. My bike has HID driving lights

3. There are 2 ballasts on the machine

The conclusion is that the bike cannot have had HID bulbs in the reflector housing because HIDs can't be modulated and those ballats are needed to power my driving lights.

So, having given them a 2 week heads-up that the problem MIGHT be recurring, they wasted yet a third week (the week since I told them that the spider had rebitten) and even then did not step up to organise an inspection nor to order and provide a replacement harness.

Today I called my dealer and he told me he was about to have phoned me to ask if I could ride the bike to the shop next week so they could inspect it . . . . I suggested that removing the plastic and lifiting the tank can easily be done at my home and that if I do it then no one will damage my machine the way they did the last time they inspected it. It was nothing serious - they broke one of the dash panel tabs - but then they tried to hide the fact by simply leaving out the screw that goes into that tab, hoping I wouldn't notice. This was not MY dealer, but the one that sold me my previous machine. His place is closer to my home and my dealer is loaded with service work so I took it back to the West Island branch of Newman Motors against my better judgement and was rewarded for my lapse in judgement..

Yamaha did replace the missing and brokenbits once approached. But they shouldn't have had to be asked.

In any case, the point is that apparently Transport Canada has really cranked up the wick under Yamaha and now they want me to bring the bike in for inspection, this time with government onlookers (presumably a technician or engineer). Hopefully they will agree to come by my home and we can have a tech session in my driveway.

What would be REALLY nice is if they would bring along a new wiring harness - but I've been told that they will not (one reason I want my machine at home . . . I can patch it up and ride it while they muck around getting a replacement harness).

More updates as they happen.

 
bramfrank,

I must applaud your efforts to take a stand with Yamaha concerning the Spider issue. The "easy" way is to use a patch at our cost to avoid a failure, but it really never gets to the heart of the issue. Yamaha needs to admit to the problem and come up with a real fix, not just replacement harnesses that will continue to fail.

Bob

 
bramfrank,

I must applaud your efforts to take a stand with Yamaha concerning the Spider issue. The "easy" way is to use a patch at our cost to avoid a failure, but it really never gets to the heart of the issue. Yamaha needs to admit to the problem and come up with a real fix, not just replacement harnesses that will continue to fail.

Bob
+1

I would wager against you come results (i.e. tickers), but I applaud the effort of not rolling over.

 
So is this a spider bite?

The bike was in for service and today was the first real ride since. (Valve check and throttle body sync so they were under the tank).

After about 120 miles I started it after a couple of hours of sitting and the fuel gauge was flashing the 8 times, pause, 8 times, pause etc. The trip meters were both flashing and the mileage meter too. Everything else was normal. I shut it off after a few miles, restarted and the fuel gauge was normal but the trips and mileage meter were still flashing. Rode about 60 miles home and it performed normally. When I got home I checked the four spiders under the tank (including #4), and the one under the left side cover. Everything seemed ok. Minor tarnishing but no evidence of overheating. I did note that the positive battery terminal was not overly tight when I disconnected it for the servicing. I cleaned them all with contact cleaner and liberally applied dielectric grease to plug, cap and spider. (GM brand).

Put it all back together and the trip meters were still flashing but everything else was normal. I then reset the trip meters and fuel gauge and they all stopped flashing.

Have I averted a disaster? I'm heading off on my annual week long tour in two weeks and will be worrying about it when I'm 1000 miles from home.

 
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So is this a spider bite?

The bike was in for service and today was the first real ride since. (Valve check and throttle body sync so they were under the tank).

After about 120 miles I started it after a couple of hours of sitting and the fuel gauge was flashing the 8 times, pause, 8 times, pause etc. The trip meters were both flashing and the mileage meter too. Everything else was normal. I shut it off after a few miles, restarted and the fuel gauge was normal but the trips and mileage meter were still flashing. Rode about 60 miles home and it performed normally. When I got home I checked the four spiders under the tank (including #4), and the one under the left side cover. Everything seemed ok. Minor tarnishing but no evidence of overheating. I did note that the positive battery terminal was not overly tight when I disconnected it for the servicing. I cleaned them all with contact cleaner and liberally applied dielectric grease to plug, cap and spider. (GM brand).

Put it all back together and the trip meters were still flashing but everything else was normal. I then reset the trip meters and fuel gauge and they all stopped flashing.

Have I averted a disaster? I'm heading off on my annual week long tour in two weeks and will be worrying about it when I'm 1000 miles from home.
This time it might've been the loose battery terminal, but what you have done does not solve the problem. For that you need to install either the Brodie or Road Runner bypass harness.

 
Has this problem been addressed on the 2009 and newer models? Does anyone know if Yamaha has taken resposibility on their newer bikes?

 
Has this problem been addressed on the 2009 and newer models? Does anyone know if Yamaha has taken resposibility on their newer bikes?
No, they have not. The problem still exists even on brand new bikes sitting on the showroom floor.

 
Time for yet another update;

I found a voicemail message on my cellphone from one 'Helen' at Yamaha Canada headquarters asking that I call her (no toll free number, for some reason). She said she'd not be away from her desk until 5PM. Of course when I called back it rang 5 times and went to her voicemail.

10 mnutes later she called back and I was struck by the negative tone of her speech.

It turns out she works for 'Customer Relations' at Yamaha and I was informed that Yamaha wanted to inspect my machine and that they had 'invited Transport Canada to be present'!!!!

Do they think I'm stupid? I know for a fact that TC has been pushing Yamaha hard and that Yamaha has resisted all efforts to take the problem seriously. But I digress . . . back to the story;

Helen informed me that they are 'not allowed' to inspect the machine at my home, that it MUST be taken to a dealer. It is apparently a matter of policy.

Now that's really interesting because my dealer told me that the regional rep liked the idea of coming to my home because it wouldn't intrude on any of the local dealers as they are in their busiest periods of the season. But again, I digress . . . .

I pointed out that there was likely little new to be discovered by inspecting my machine, since it had already been inspected by Yamaha last year; In fact the dealer at which it was inpected broke one of the panels and then denied responsability . . . she said she had my file and sounded downright nasty . . .

I told her I'd consider the matter and that if I decided to allow them to inspect the machine at a dealer I'd let them know.

In the meantime I called my dealer who was VERY unhappy to hear that a gang will be descending on his shop for the inspection - he expressed some surprise that Yamaha didn't offer to pick up the machine to minimise the inconvenience to me - but, he also said that this isn't the same Yamaha that we all grew up with.

I have a call in to TC (they were gone for the day) and I will co-ordinate the inspection with them and Yamaha can show up when it is convenient for us.

More . . . as the world turns.

 
She said she'd not be away from her desk until 5PM. Of course when I called back it rang 5 times and went to her voicemail.

10 mnutes later she called back and I was struck by the negative tone of her speech.
How's that vinegar been working out for you bramfrank? Your post certainly comes across as pissy to me.....I bet it carries over into your phone calls. :glare:

Maybe, if you spent half your energy attacking the problem instead of attacking the people seeming to give you attention....I think you'd be much farther ahead in your odyssey.

To those afflicted by the spider I've been around the forum for some years and seen three serious campaigns to resolve issues on the FJR. Two worked pretty well even if slow--the ticker issue Warchild championed and ignition switch issue Beemerdons documented with dispassionate and objective detail. They were resolved either by Yamaha directly or the government getting involved with Yamaha because champions on this forum worked at THE PROBLEM and didn't play the blame game. And I think might have been resolved more quickly than the spider issue.

This third one (which I think is a totally legitimate issue), hasn't been resolved yet...and not really much movement that I've seen. I gotta wonder if it's because Bramfrank wants to bite any hand that reaches out and scorch any government agency that doesn't satisfy his every whim. Resolving these issue is tough in the best of circumstances as you paddle up stream. Lashing out in bold font and exclamation points regularly probably doesn't help much...and may even hurt.

I encourage Gen 2 folks to work on the issue together and don't buy into the rage thing. I think you'll find the issue resolved much more easily and more quickly that way. In fact, I'd bet on it.

People in Yamaha and regulators are people too...not drones...they usually respond better to honey than vinegar.

Jes sayin. ;)

An Empathetic and Interested Gen 1 Owner

 
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First of all, let me say that I was very pleasant with the CSR. SHE was negative from the first words out of her mouth. I've encountered this type of attitude from transplanted Asians (Helen is Japanese) - they tend to get very defensive, even if no one is on the offensive.

Maybe you guys don't realize it, but the government up here is very supportive of my efforts and has been pushing the heck out of Yamaha. Yamaha has been stonewalling them - and after the maximum time allowed for a formal reply to the government's request for information, they were very unhappy because Yamaha literally blew them off, which galvanized their position.

The government has examined one dead wiring harness from a bike out west and looked at an unaffected machine local to their offices in Ottawa. They are coming to Montreal to inspect two affected machines (mine is one, I don't know who owns the other), but there is an issue with the other in that the owner can't or won't trailer it to a dealer (hence the 'let's do it in the driveway' suggestion).

What rots my socks was that Yamaha was playing a game by claiming that THEY invited Transport Canada to inspect my machine when the reality is that Transport Canada ordered Yamaha to get off their collective a**es and stop stonewalling them. The attitude of that person at Yamaha was that they were doing me a favor by inspecting the machine because it is past warranty . . . . and you think I was being pissy?

Then there's the fact that Yamaha DID inspect my machine and promptly blamed my HID headlights, both for the problem and for crazing the polycarbonate lens on my reflector twice and they also managed to break a panel and tried to deny it. It's too bad that my machine has factory stock halogen headlights with a headlight modulator.

And is it my fault that this latest reflector has a defective adjuster? They seemed to imply it, from what my dealer reports.

And here's some news for our friends south of the border, No one is doing anything for you.. My friends at Transport Canada also tried to get the NHTSA moving and, if you care to go back through the thread you'll see that I reported that the agency declined to follow up on the issue.

I am fairly certain that eventually there will be a recall either for inspection, adjustment, treatment or replacement for this issue for Canadian machines, but the way things are going, unless someone in the US steps up and pushes them, the NHTSA is content to just let things lie. It isn't the end of the world; We never got the ECU swap even though are machines are impacted by the problem, I guess you guys in the US will have to live with burning grounds and having to pay for your own fixes.

You may not like my reporting style - and until you get off your butts and get actively involved, you'll have to accept it for what it is. You've implied that TC has an issue with me when the reality is that I have a close working relationship with the lead investigator. And I have a very close personal relationship with my dealer. I've never met anyone from Yamaha and except for Helen, I've not spoken with or written to anyone at Yamaha directly.

I think some of you guys just ASSume altogether too much.

 
I've encountered this type of attitude from transplanted Asians (Helen is Japanese) - they tend to get very defensive, even if no one is on the offensive.
A racial stereotype and alienating Yamaha? Greeeaaattt...that oughta help. I wonder if Helen or Yamaha staffer is reading the forum? I see three non-member IP addresses in this area right now....they do drop in regularly.
rolleyes.gif


And here's some news for our friends south of the border, No one is doing anything for you..

I think some of you guys just ASSume altogether too much.
Here's some news for you....you're wrong. I do know something is being worked.

Don't ASSume.....except that sugar usually works better than vinegar. ;)

 
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I've encountered this type of attitude from transplanted Asians (Helen is Japanese) - they tend to get very defensive, even if no one is on the offensive.
A racial stereotype and alienating Yamaha? Greeeaaattt...that oughta help. I wonder if Helen or Yamaha staffer is reading the forum? I see three non-member IP addresses in this area right now....they do drop in regularly.
rolleyes.gif


And here's some news for our friends south of the border, No one is doing anything for you..

I think some of you guys just ASSume altogether too much.
Here's some news for you....you're wrong. I do know something is being worked.

Don't ASSume.....except that sugar usually works better than vinegar. ;)
You weren't there. I daresay that you can't know what happened. But to say that transplanted Asians get defensive is NOT racial profiling; It is a statement about the culture and general attitude of business people from that corner of the world - there's nothng wrong with being defensive, by the way - but it rankles.

I spent 25 years in the technologies, almost 10 of them running a customer support group and the rest seling to governments, public safety, transit and rail companies internationally for a very specialised tech firm selling mission critical communication systems, with great success - I believe I know how to deal with strangers from different cultures, many of them customers with serious operational issues. I have never had any problems anywhere in the world, but encountered lots of this kind of attitude with several Asian cultures in the way that they handle business relationships. Racial profiling? No. Cultural profiling based on the attitude they convey and the manner in which they convey it? Absolutely.

If sugar works better than vineager, then Yamaha should consider using some instead of calling me up and telling me how concerned they are about the problem and how much they are doing to resolve the matter, including bringing in Transport Canada when this has been going on for more than a year and I know that their feet are being held to the fire by TC - and this was part of her way of introducing herself to me. Having told me that she had my file, she also has my e-mails to my dealer (they were forwarded to the rep) which included clear references to the fact that copies were going to my contact at TC - so perhaps you can explain to me why she would lie to me.

And if it offends her to read about our exchange here, then perhaps she should take it as a life lesson. I have no reason to report falsely - I would have been VERY positive if she'd been at all supportive. But I got an earful of attitude and negativism about 'policy' and sucn - that the machine is condemned (I was told not to ride it by TC) they SHOULD have offered to collect the bike and return it repaired, by the way. THAT is what customer Service is about.

If she comes here and has an issue with what I've written, nothing stops her from joining and posting her views or of writing to me privately or phoning me to discuss 'the customer experience' with me.

As a community of riders who are at risk because of faulty design that the manufacturer has been aware of and has been for more than two years, we have every right to be unhappy about the lack of recognition - several among us have had to dig deep into our pockets to pay for repairs and many have been spending their own money to protect themselves from the danger; I recall reading about one bike that had been exported to Ireland that wound up being scrapped (an admittedly extreme reaction) because of issues which, in retrospect may very well have been due to a 'Spider Bite' - his spiders were reportedly badly corroded.

These days I run a security company with almost 2000 subscribers. The only clients we ever have issues with seem to be from the Pac Rim - and it isn't me dealing with them. In the past 20 years we've had legal issues with three customers. Two were from Hong Kong, the third was from Japan. Now, maybe 3 out of 2,000 makes the sample too small to use as 'proof', but given my twin careers, I'll take it.

I'm scheduled to have a chat this morning with TC - if, as you suggest there is action with the NHTSA I'll find out, since TC and the Americans trade information.

 
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