FJRForum Official 2015 Iron Butt Rally Tracking/Analysis thread

[Go Far]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total bullshit. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, shit does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

A glitchy system should not be allowed anywhere near a competition. What if the Olympic's timers didn't get that last race? "Oops, sorry everyone, please run it again." Or as in this event, "Sorry, our timer didn't work. You couldn't have known that, but since you didn't post a time, you're out of the race."

This was a problem that should not have been a problem, and if this IBR was run professionally, it would not have happened. I stand behind my opinion that taking a 1000 point bonus from a rider and then that rider losing by 600 points is bogus. ONLY because the problem was with the organization's equipment. There should be no question that their stuff works, and now there is.

It is up to the rider to satisfy the requirements of a bonus. Arrive within time constraints. Photograph and document according to the bonus listing. Not run out of gas. Manage sleep. A call in bonus is just that- call in. It is a challenge that is rewarded with points. Remember to call in, call in during the time window. And I would add- call in from larger towns and look at the cell signal you have.

It is a level playing field in the Iron Butt Rally.

Level, brutal, and 11 days long.

 

[MCRIDER007]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total bullshit. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

It's not clear at this point what went wrong with that phone call. Placing the call is not what gets the points, for those you have to leave the required information. Many of us have experienced difficulties with "Call-In" bonuses. Sometimes those problems are user-error, sometimes a network error and sometimes they might be the fault of the rally systems. I'm guessing that will be investigated later.

That said, giving the points to Josh would actually disadvantage all those riders who did leave the correct message at the appropriate time. On all three legs, virtually all riders did place successful calls to that system, and it recorded them correctly. It suggests quite strongly that it was actually a network error, and like everything else in the IBR, zero allowance is given for bad weather, accidents, traffic and any and all other problems.

To my knowledge Josh is not complaining about this issue. It's really a matter for him, and for the IBA to ensure that their equipment works as intended.

How.....exactly.....could Josh or any other rider.....ensure that the IBA's equipment was working as intended?

Have it send a receipt. Email/SMS/IVR/Smoke Signals...

That may be a solution for future IBRs but I don't think any receipts were sent in 2015.

 

[Geezer]

The fact that one rider was treated exactly the same as another rider (neither were awarded the call as no evidence was in the phone bank) simply shows there was no favoritism and the integrity of the scoring process.

No favouritism and denial are hardly acceptable excuses. Competitors spend a lot of money and endure hardship and knowingly put themselves at risk in competing. But not accepting that thier is an issue and taking steps to rectify it, borders on negligence. Why not just have a roving rider with toy gun and that if he shoots you during the rally, your an automatic DNF.

Why not? It's fair and everybody gets treated the same.

Whatever, I have no horse, but I can see it for what it is. AJ is right.

IMHO, this is an example of how things work in life. Sometimes you are rewarded unexpectedly for something that was easy, and sometimes you are not rewarded for something that you put a lot of effort into and thought you had earned a reward. Such is life.

 

[Niehart]

Wondered if Jim Owen had made the group photo, if it's have mattered. He was nearly 5,000 point behind Erik Lipps, so unlikely. Though I admit, I'm not sure what the bonus was worth. But after talking to a rider, it sounds like that would have been a very high point bonus that would have likely gotten more attention. But then it caught my eye how close in points some of these riders were. .

"13 riders bagged the photo, with just Jim Owen missing the deadline by six minutes."

I have a feeling that those 6 minutes are going to bug Jim for awhile.

 

[LKLD]

It'll be interesting to see what changes, if any, are made for '17.

 

[Uncle Hud]

CONGRATULATIONS to all our Forum competitors! You have my full respect. Enjoy that 3-digit IBA number!

....................................................................................................................................................................................

Yamaha showed well. 14 FJRs started, 15 FJRs finished. 2 Super Teneres started, 2 Super Teneres finished. FJRs in four of the top five places.

Now, while I'll admit that rider quality unquestionably contributed to "four out of the top five places", the fact remains that all Yamaha bikes finished.

 

[doug5551]

I don't think anyone has commented yet:

Kurt Worden.....#37 and a Bronze medal finisher on a Ninja 250!

That is quite a bit higher than I would have ever been able to finish on a 250.

I brought his supplies to Sacramento for him in 2011, where he DNFed, and then he worked, trained and prepared for two years so that he could give it another shot.

His hard earned success is a result of his dedication, perseverance and toughness.

Quite an awesome part of this story....

 

[dcarver]

I wonder what if 'recorder-gate' could be eliminated if the IBR adopted BigMoneyRally technology?

TAPO (object), record text (typed or dictated) post. The rider can then verify successful post by refreshing browser. EasyPeasy, simple, effective. Just a thought.

 

[Uncle Hud]

dcarver posted: I wonder what if 'recorder-gate' could be eliminated if the IBR adopted BigMoneyRally technology?
TAPO (object), record text (typed or dictated) post. The rider can then verify successful post by refreshing browser. EasyPeasy, simple, effective. Just a thought.

I have a bet with another Georgia BMR rider that many of RenoJohn's and nankoweep's innovations will be gathered under the IBR banner in 2017.

Wondering if your bonus photo (submitted by email via your smartphone) is adequate? Wait ten minutes, check the website, and find out. Need to make a timed check-in bonus? Push your Spot's "custom message" button, immediately log a message stamped with lat/lon, elevation, direction, speed, date, and time -- and perhaps get a confirmation text on your smartphone 60 seconds later. Those two are obvious; I'm sure there are more.

For those that IBR'ed back in the 20th century with paper maps and God knows what all else, it's simply not the same game anymore. Would be interesting to debate whether they're easier or harder now, but that would require alcohol and a campfire.

 

[user 213]

In regards to the bonus collection and Josh Vs Eric, you all need to remember that like an accident scene, if you were not there, there is always more to the story than is presented online.

Eric Jewell and Josh Mountain rode exceptional rides. Eric won. That is how it is.

The top 20 riders all rode amazing rides and nearly all had some issue during the rally, be it mechanical, personal, (rider), or scoring. In every rally riders will tell you that they simply forgot to write down a bonus and lost the points. Or that the decided not to go grab a bonus or two that they could have gotten, only later discovering that was the difference between finisher places or winning Vs 2nd. At the end of the day, what the Rally Staff says is nearly always final. That's part of the agreement riders make too.

I have been riding around during the IBR, from the start to TN to the finish and enjoyed seeing and talking with many friends from the LD scene and the FJR forum. I'm glad the forum members enjoyed the spectating here, but it was very clear a lot did not really understand everything that goes into the IBR and how it's ridden and managed.

Eric V.

#488

 

[RenoJohn]

I don't think anyone has commented yet:
Kurt Worden.....#37 and a Bronze medal finisher on a Ninja 250!

That is quite a bit higher than I would have ever been able to finish on a 250.

I brought his supplies to Sacramento for him in 2011, where he DNFed, and then he worked, trained and prepared for two years so that he could give it another shot.

His hard earned success is a result of his dedication, perseverance and toughness.

Quite an awesome part of this story....

kinda makes your heart warm don't it!?

I'll add he jumped 22 positions in the 3rd leg ...from 59 to 37

very very cool.

 

[Niehart]

I don't think anyone has commented yet:
Kurt Worden.....#37 and a Bronze medal finisher on a Ninja 250!

That is quite a bit higher than I would have ever been able to finish on a 250.

I brought his supplies to Sacramento for him in 2011, where he DNFed, and then he worked, trained and prepared for two years so that he could give it another shot.

His hard earned success is a result of his dedication, perseverance and toughness.

Quite an awesome part of this story....

kinda makes your heart warm don't it!?I'll add he jumped 22 positions in the 3rd leg ...from 59 to 37

very very cool.

+1

 

[Webwalker]

I don't think anyone has commented yet:
Kurt Worden.....#37 and a Bronze medal finisher on a Ninja 250!

That is quite a bit higher than I would have ever been able to finish on a 250.

I brought his supplies to Sacramento for him in 2011, where he DNFed, and then he worked, trained and prepared for two years so that he could give it another shot.

His hard earned success is a result of his dedication, perseverance and toughness.

Quite an awesome part of this story....

kinda makes your heart warm don't it!?

I'll add he jumped 22 positions in the 3rd leg ...from 59 to 37

very very cool.

And a genuinely nice guy. I approached him in the parking lot at the finish and he took plenty of time to chat and talk about his bike and his ride.

As an FYI, his highest milest was 81 MPG, and IIRC his average was 62 MPG. His biggest performance challenge was his bike's jetting above 6,000 ft in altitude. ABQ is 5200 ft so he didn't need to go far to find those heights . Sounds like he intends to run again after sorting that issue. Ride on Kurt!

 

[Ignacio]

Some more photos courtesy of Tobie Stevens. Thx for the great IBR coverage my friend!

Just a good shot of peeps and a trusty FJR. Twiggs note about 14 FJRs started and 15 finished speaks volumes about our trust model.

\

My personal favorite picture of the IBR. Maybe it's because Erik and I texted daily during the event and tickled with his stellar 4th place rookie finish...maybe it's the look on his face with his son.

Josh Mountain's boots were the topic of one report and I'd say he's due for some new ones.

Derek Dickson, winner of the 2013 IBR, and Erik Jewell after he wrung every single bit out of his motorcycle.

Tobie e-mailed me, "I think you started a hammered dog shit helmet removal competition . You are still the winner. :} Tobie". This is a close runner up.

The Top 10...littered with FJR riders

And for many day, weeks, and months the riders of the 2015 IBR are going to have vivid dreams that will probably include images like this:

Rider numbers will start at #508...meaning Erik Lipps was the 508th person to have completed the Iron Butt Rally. Congratulations IBR Class of 2015.

 

[Where is Bob L]

If I am reading the report correctly, is the difference between Eric and Josh, that Josh's 3rd leg call in was made but not recd by the phone bank?

Congrats to ALL the riders...some really tough riding, especially thru the final night.

JEF

Yup. You read that right. That's total bullshit. This is the reason I would never give these people my money and let them judge anything. Josh isn't the only one that happened to, and they know their system is FUBAR, but they continue to punish the rider's for the organization's mistake.

If the rider's phone shows the call was made, the points should be awarded. Not cool at all. Josh won this IBR, and for it to be taken from him like that is BS.

So people with only 24 states shouldn't be DNF'd? People with 48 parks shouldn't be DNF'd? Where do you draw the line on not completing something that was the rally pack as a requirement? What about people who are outside of coverage area for their carrier when the window opens?

My first rally with a call in bonus had me stopping (early flip phone) every half hour until I could get through the busy signal. The RM had contracted with the host hotel for a mulit-line voice mail but they only provided a single line. You can't be sure an RM will throw out a requirement before you get to the scoring table, so you do what you have to. That the affected riders had done "insurance" calls on other legs shows they understood the pitfalls and had previously taken precautions. Fatigue and its affects on the rider is one of the challenges. In the aqbove example, the RM did NOT throw out the requirement. Those who threw up their hands and said fuqitall took their chances and lost their bet. Those who followed the requirements of the rally pack and kept at it until they were sure got the points.

Adapt and persevere.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Riders getting their states and bonuses is on them. They KNOW if they got it or not because they were there. A rider in a major metropolitan area with 5 bars and full 4G coverage should expect that any call he makes is going through.

IF that only happened to one person, this would be a moot point; however, it happened on the previous leg, and the staff as much as admitted their system faulted. So, exactly how many times is a rider supposed to stop his ride and make that important call to be sure it goes through on the receiver's end? Twice? Maybe two's not enough. Three times, well, shit does and will happen...4 times, five, Hell, let's say an even 10 just to have as many chances as possible that the call worked.

A glitchy system should not be allowed anywhere near a competition. What if the Olympic's timers didn't get that last race? "Oops, sorry everyone, please run it again." Or as in this event, "Sorry, our timer didn't work. You couldn't have known that, but since you didn't post a time, you're out of the race."

This was a problem that should not have been a problem, and if this IBR was run professionally, it would not have happened. I stand behind my opinion that taking a 1000 point bonus from a rider and then that rider losing by 600 points is bogus. ONLY because the problem was with the organization's equipment. There should be no question that their stuff works, and now there is.

It is up to the rider to satisfy the requirements of a bonus. Arrive within time constraints. Photograph and document according to the bonus listing. Not run out of gas. Manage sleep. A call in bonus is just that- call in. It is a challenge that is rewarded with points. Remember to call in, call in during the time window. And I would add- call in from larger towns and look at the cell signal you have.

It is a level playing field in the Iron Butt Rally.

Level, brutal, and 11 days long.

Even after I got a cell phone I would stop at a truck stop or whatever and make multiple calls from a LAND line. I always laugh when someone tells me they left me a message on my machine, why did I not call back. It usually clarifies who left that garbled message that we tried 10 times to figure out who left it. Cell phones suck, don't trust them for important messages.

That being said, when I leave a message for someone at work, I can replay my message before I hang up. That would be a nice feature, and one I expect will be added for the next rally.

 

[airboss]

Controversy aside.

Man what a ride!

Big thanks to all the riders, staff, volunteers, and you too AJ.

 

[beemerdons]

Controversy aside.
Man what a ride!

Big thanks to all the riders, staff, volunteers, and you too AJ.

+1, Gunny; Muchas Gracias to el Reno Juan for his Blog, Trabajo Excelente mi Amigo! JSNS, Papa Chuy Viejo.

https://austinmedia.net/stuff/temp/15IBRcountdown.html

 

[Rototiller]

Your suggestion would make an smart phone a required bit of equipment, I don't recall what message I got during the 2013 IBR Call In's but the ability to listen and confirm your message would work. It's not just that you called in but you gave the correct information that is required, it's like not having the flag or not having your motorcycle in the picture as required in the instructions. I have been in rallies you actually talked to a live person but that was because they weren't organized as the IBR and usually less then 36 hours duration.

This Forum is definitely the place to be while armchairing the IBR...

Donald A Jones

 

[Hawk28]

I have been riding for many years with some long riding days ,but never attempted anything like the IBR. You guys and gals have my utmost respect for your discipline and guts.

I think I will take my FJR out for a ride this afternoon.

 

[Twigg]

I have been riding for many years with some long riding days ,but never attempted anything like the IBR. You guys and gals have my utmost respect for your discipline and guts.I think I will take my FJR out for a ride this afternoon.

... be back Friday