Fork maintenance failure

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My stems point to the left. That's where the last owner had them and its where I need them in my shed in order to check / adjust when parked.

In the car biz at least, jobs like this are "flat rate". This means an initial quote is given and that's what it's going to be!

There are cases where crash damage or prior repairs cause extra work and the customer is billed. This is never done without authorization. NO surprises at pick up!

I have quoted low on many occasions in my years. In each case I honored the quote and chalked up the loss to experience / education.

IMHO they should have charged the 3 hours quoted.

They are supposed to be factory trained and have the correct tools, equipment and the experience to use them.

 
The job taking longer because they are stupid is not your problem. I would raise Hell until they either went back to the time listed in their manual, or I would make sure they know I will NEVER go into their dealership again. You and your dad have been going for how long and spent how much money there, just to be nice, and this is how they treat you? You would have been better off saving your money by doing your own service if they hose you on their mistake.

I'd be in the dealership tomorrow speaking to the manager and then the owner. That is bullshit. Let's use this example:

You take the bike in for a valve check. They tell you, $250 to check and $350 if adjustments are needed. So they get in there and adjust 2 valves. A $350 job. BUT, they screw up, don't tie off the chain and skip two teeth on the cam. They put the bike back together and fire iit up, grenading the engine. So, since a $350 job just turned into a $1500 job, that's what they'd charge you??? You took it to them to prevent that kind of cost, and they screwed you anyway. Those are some upstanding guys.

 
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Very well put HRZ I fully agree, they should pay for their own schooling and learning, not the customer.

 
From your listing, looks like a $400 ish plus tax visit to me. I'd say the dealer is taking advantage of the situation...

YMMV

--G

 
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There's 4 hrs. actual labor there, more if you count flat rate time for each job individually as if the items were disassembled for each job separately (that's the way flat rate works). Brake pads list $200. Fork parts and oil, $100... tires $300, taxes........ check the bill, add it up...

 
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Yabbut, your Canadian and used to paying too much for everything!
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Yabbut, I was using US prices...... (BTW, exchange rate sucks right now).

 
On a somewhat happier note, Pop and I managed a 200 mile ride today. Temps ranged from 54F this morning to 68F this afternoon. We swapped bikes and I rode the FJR for about 70 of those miles. I found the suspension to be working much better than it has for quite a while. I am not sure of the reason, I have no way of knowing what went wrong inside those forks.

I am still pissed about the price and Pop is not real happy either. But, the bike is working very well so he is happy about that. He had me order the Heli-Bar bridge this morning and I am about to order a new Cee Bailey reverse contour shield. All's well that ends well.

 
New oil, new bushings, new seals......... less stiction...... new adjustments? All good.......... And just my spin, once you add up all the MSRP parts and tire prices, was the labour cost all that bad for dealer service? But that is the reason many of us do our own work and we usually can find parts and tires cheaper......... You learned something, move on, it's done, enjoy the ride of that fine machine......

 
I can't believe I just read this whole old thread, lol Informative, but it's impressive how many times someone will say the exact same thing over and over and over.
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Well, perhaps time for something new...... I have rebuilt a number of both Gen's forks now, and have once experienced the dreaded issue of lower bushing jamming inside the middle bushing just as what happened to gixxerjasen. This happened to me on two forks. Once this happens the middle bushing expands very tightly inside the outer fork tube, preventing the slide action one normally uses to remove the upper bushing and the seal. How resolved? First attempt to drive the inner fork tube back down resulted in the lower bushing unjamming from the middle one (use a block of wood held very square to the upper fork tube while striking rather hard with a large rubber hammer, will take more than once). It worked, and was able to continue normally.

On the second occurrence, above method was not successful. One might think as one drives the inner fork tube back down, the middle bushing should reseat itself in it's "groove", then as one continues, one might think one can unjam the lower bushing from the middle...... this particular one did not, and as the fork tube was hammered back, it took the middle bushing past it's seating area and further down into the outer fork tube... not recommended to risk damage down there as this is the area the lower bushing travels in as the suspension travels. The friction in this scenario prevents slide action by hand, so creative solution required to get these things apart, especially when you do not readily have a hydraulic press than can pull.

First, I assembled two hose clamps such that the two tighteners were on opposite sides of the tube so I would have two opposing spots to push against. Hose clamps were tightened around the upper part of the tube just below the area where the fork tube increases in diameter (upper triple tree clamping area). I then made two wooden V-blocks that would fit over the upper fork tube and clamped them around the tube, up against my hose clamps. The idea was to equalize as much force as possible that would possibly crush/distort the fork tube. This assembly was clamped into a vice, then the axle shaft was inserted, and with another wooden block against the axle shaft, I hammered against it to force the lower fork tube off. Not much else one can do... once apart, fork tubes were cleaned and inspected, and voila, no visible damage.

Here's the deal and theory..... always heat the seal, as it seems to require the largest force to remove if seemingly "glued" in there, even without a jammed bushing issue. Second observation, the upper bushing also requires significant force to remove. Why? Observe next time you install one, these are like piston rings, and there is zero gap left at the split.... actually as they are installed, there is actually significant force required to seat them due to the interference fit. This makes them harder to remove of course. I install these by using an old upper bushing and the large washer next as a larger landing area for my homemade 2" ABS (or PVC) seal driver.

On to the other little fact we have not discussed so far.... one installs the lower bushing and assembles it into the lower fork tube. It COMPRESSES as it is installed. How much gap is left in that "piston ring" I do not know, but I do believe there is some as they tend to go in fairly easily. 'Spoze if we had a way to actually measure, we'd be smarter, but the theory is that we have to have enough clearance down there for the bushing to ride on a film of oil. Now on to the middle bushing..... one installs it by sliding it down the inner fork tube, then pushing it down with a special tube tool into it's seating area. Here, the bushing actually EXPANDS while it seats (aha, Grasshopper), so there is actually more clearance on this middle bushing once installed. Are the clearances here similar to the clearances on the lower bushing?..... I suspect similar but precision measurements required unless someone has access to the design drawings.

Back to removal of the middle bushing, all the bushings have nice square edges so when the lower slams into the middle bushing it should not normally go inside but catch enough to unseat the middle bushing. But remember the middle bushing has EXPANDED and has some clearance, so one shouldn't be too rammy on that first attempt to unseat it. Use only as much force as needed, don't be excessive. Once unseated, you're good to go.

Unproven theory, the middle bushing is there to prevent flex of the inner fork tube as forces try to "bend" it (between the lower and upper bushings) when you hit hard bumps or heaven forbid have an encounter with a bambi......... superior Gen II engineering of course..... I'll tell you a Gen I fork story later.......

 
Only way to get those end gap clearance measurements of the bushings would be while the inner tube is completely out of the outer / lower one.

The bushings would need to pressed down into their appropriate places where all three of them expand into whatever space there is, then you could measure the end gaps. Getting them back out would be the trick.

Maybe to help prevent the dreaded bushing jam while disassembling, instead of just grabbing the inner leg and pulling it out, you should also intentionally push the leg to one side or the other to help create more interference at the ends of the two bushings. I agree that many smaller taps are preferable to one hard pull.

It may be that the oil seal gets stuck in place in the lower leg from being exposed to the outside elements (water etc.) that gets past the dust seal? There would probably be some value in hitting the seal from the top with some penetrating oil and then heating the upper part of the lower leg with a heat gun to soften the rubber. That's good thinking.

 
Maybe to help prevent the dreaded bushing jam while disassembling, instead of just grabbing the inner leg and pulling it out, you should also intentionally push the leg to one side or the other to help create more interference at the ends of the two bushings.
IIRC, I have this in an email from the guys at Traxxion when I was dealing with all of this.
 
I had thought of mentioning biasing it to one side, but since I always have the forks horizontal while in the vice, figured it would naturally happen for the most part anyway. Nevertheless, good idea. I think the trick is not to get too rammy at first which may force things into perfect alignment quicker than you want it to.

As far as the upper bushing and seal, if you consider how much effort is required to install them, the seal in particular is one hellovan interference fit. That's why you lube them before you put them in, but likely the vast majority gets wiped off the rubber on the way in. I have tried penetrating fluid and actually pounding the seal further down hoping to break the bond (it will move down slightly, sometimes necessary to get the wire retaining rings out), but nothing seems to work better than heat. Don't need to be real hot, just hot enough so you'll burn your fingers.

 
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