Frankenbike said "Goodbye!" to me this morning

[RadioHowie]

Get to work, park in my spot (yes, I have my own, covered parking...RHIP) and get off Frankenbike. Turn off the key, the shield goes down and right when it hits bottom, I hear a faint, two-tone BEE-beep. Just like you'd hear when you set the OEM alarm on most every late model vehicle with alarms and auto-locks...a short BEE-beep. Lots of folks driving in at the time, so I assume it's someone locking their doors or setting their alarm with a remote. About a half-second of thought...that's all I gave it.

THEN...at lunch...I'm heading out to Burger King for a quick deep-fried-lard-on-a-stick, put the key in and turn the bike on and the horns go off. Like real quiet and out of tune, as if you've got a bad ground and the horns aren't getting full voltage. First, only one horn goes off, then the other a moment or two later.

:dribble: :dribble:

WTF is that? Are those MY horns? I hit the horn button...and get the full volume/ruptured chihuahua squeal that all OEM FJR-horn owners would recognize. Let the horn button go, but the horns keep blowing, but at a much lower tone, and much lower volume. Hit the horn button again, and full tone and volume. Let the horn button go, lower tone and not as loud.

It's obvious I have a ground wire in the horn circuit that may have frayed through and is touching ground somewhere, but it definitely is not in the switch.

Anyone got an idea where to begin looking to track down a ground short in the horn circuit? I just unplugged the horns to shut 'em up 'til I can start tracking down the problem.

Hope nothing else in the circuit can be affected by an unintended ground.

Ever hear a goose honking? That's what it sounds like.

ps: Remember, it's a Gen I so no ground spiders have been harmed in creating this post.

 

[FJRay]

I think the horn circut is on its own. I do believe the button is the ground side so you should be able to power up the circut and trace the ground circut towards the handlebar switch until you find the short. I would think something got pinched while you were doing surgery and finally found its way to ground. Might be where it goes into the switch. Its been to long since I did the blasters and a relay so I don't remember the circut layout. I'm sure the sheep boy will be along to help shortly.

 

[JamesK]

RH, since one wire, pink color on the Gen2 is the +12V it is ok as your horns work and no blown fuse. So that leaves the other wire which I believe is black or dark blue. On the Gen2, the right side horn wires are well insulated in their own sheath, but the left side come straight out of the harness running to the headlight area, so i'd look at that side first.

The other possibility is that the ground terminal in the horn itself is shorting and since the two horns are wired in parallel it would explain them both beeping. I would connect a small 12V bulb across the horn wires to see if it turns on or not by itself, that should eliminate the horn shorting internally as a suspect.

If i remember correctly the -ve side of the horn wiring should read a couple of Volts (floating) when unplugged from the horn, so that would be an easy check to make too.

 

[madmike2]

Yuh mite wanna PM Mr. Patriot. He seams tuh noe all about thems horns. He kud prolly hep yuh tuh git some new wuns, tew.

 

[Patriot]

Yuh mite wanna PM Mr. Patriot. He seams tuh noe all about thems horns. He kud prolly hep yuh tuh git some new wuns, tew.

might not want me as the horn or wiring consultant, but I'll take alook...

<since adding the Fiamms to replace stock, and the air horn: switched to blow the air horn using the stock and the Fiamms another separate horn button, or a double throw switch so they both blow with either horn switch: whenever the kill switch is moved to engine off, both the horns blow...really :dribble: >

 

[RadioHowie]

Yuh mite wanna PM Mr. Patriot. He seams tuh noe all about thems horns. He kud prolly hep yuh tuh git some new wuns, tew.

might not want me as the horn or wiring consultant, but I'll take alook...

<since adding the Fiamms to replace stock, and the air horn: switched to blow the air horn using the stock and the Fiamms another separate horn button, or a double throw switch so they both blow with either horn switch: whenever the kill switch is moved to engine off, both the horns blow...really :dribble: >

Ermmmmm.....uhhhhhhhhhh.....luvya Mike, but think I'll pass.

Guess I'm gonna haveta go on a fishing expedition. Need to pull the plastic anyway...nothin's blowed up since February and I need to break sumpin'.

 

[wfooshee]

I would look in the cable housing running from the left-hand grip up into the wiring harness.

What's weird to me is that for this to happen, not only would you need a ground short somewhere between the horn and the button, you would need a 12-volt short somewhere. When the key is off and the windshield retracts, there is no power on the fuse to the horns (signals/brake - and apparently "signals" means "horn" in Japanese, not "turn signals." Turn signals are supplied by the hazards fuse.)

Anyway, to make the horn speak with the key off, the horn had to get 12-volt somewhere, which looks like the red wire to the windshield drive, which taps from the red/green wire on the gauge panel. I don't see where the windshield and the horn circuits pass through the same multi-connector anywhere, but I'm looking at my 2003 diagram.

Fuse panel is a maybe: the "backup" fuse is unswitched, so if its leads (red to battery, red/green to systems) touch anything else, those other things could be powered when they don't s'posed ta be.

All this goes out the window if a relay has been added to your horn circuit, like on my bike. On mine, button closes relay, which closes an always-hot line to the horns. Relay became non-weatherproof one day, and filled with water, which made the horns stay on. Always. Key or not. Like the dead guy in his car on all the TV shows.

nothin's blowed up since February and I need to break sumpin'.

Please be careful what you wish for!!!

 

[BikerGeek99]

<since adding the Fiamms to replace stock, and the air horn: switched to blow the air horn using the stock and the Fiamms another separate horn button, or a double throw switch so they both blow with either horn switch: whenever the kill switch is moved to engine off, both the horns blow...really :dribble: >

That's classic, Mike. Reminds me of my brother's ~ '76 Cutlass. One night we're riding along and the headlights go out and the dome light comes on. What's my brother do? He opens his door a little bit and <BINK!> the dome light went out and the headlights came back on. I was mystified. The headlight switch had a short or something and he'd been procrastinating getting a new one. I guess it did that from time to time.

Good luck, Howie!

 

[RadioHowie]

I would look in the cable housing running from the left-hand grip up into the wiring harness.
What's weird to me is that for this to happen, not only would you need a ground short somewhere between the horn and the button, you would need a 12-volt short somewhere. When the key is off and the windshield retracts, there is no power on the fuse to the horns (signals/brake - and apparently "signals" means "horn" in Japanese, not "turn signals." Turn signals are supplied by the hazards fuse.)

Anyway, to make the horn speak with the key off, the horn had to get 12-volt somewhere, which looks like the red wire to the windshield drive, which taps from the red/green wire on the gauge panel. I don't see where the windshield and the horn circuits pass through the same multi-connector anywhere, but I'm looking at my 2003 diagram.

Fuse panel is a maybe: the "backup" fuse is unswitched, so if its leads (red to battery, red/green to systems) touch anything else, those other things could be powered when they don't s'posed ta be.

All this goes out the window if a relay has been added to your horn circuit, like on my bike. On mine, button closes relay, which closes an always-hot line to the horns. Relay became non-weatherproof one day, and filled with water, which made the horns stay on. Always. Key or not. Like the dead guy in his car on all the TV shows.

No relays...stock wiring. Funny how the horns "tooted" briefly JUST as the windshield bottomed out on retract. I think that's a key factor. Gonna have to do some digging to confirm.

nothin's blowed up since February and I need to break sumpin'.

Please be careful what you wish for!!!

Yeah...considering my history, after reading that in retrospect, it ain't as funny the second time around. <_<

 

[Patriot]

<since adding the Fiamms to replace stock, and the air horn: switched to blow the air horn using the stock and the Fiamms another separate horn button, or a double throw switch so they both blow with either horn switch: whenever the kill switch is moved to engine off, both the horns blow...really :dribble: >

That's classic, Mike. Reminds me of my brother's ~ '76 Cutlass. One night we're riding along and the headlights go out and the dome light comes on. What's my brother do? He opens his door a little bit and <BINK!> the dome light went out and the headlights came back on. I was mystified. The headlight switch had a short or something and he'd been procrastinating getting a new one. I guess it did that from time to time.

Good luck, Howie!

except for the ridicule (my mechanic was in awe), it probably is a good thing

remember this thread: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=114491

I still occassionally bump the kill switch while riding with the AVCC cruise engaged and my hand off the throttle holding on to the front brake lever clamp. The engine looses all power and the horns blow. I know exactly whats happening now. :clapping:

 

[wfooshee]

I still occassionally bump the kill switch while riding with the AVCC cruise engaged and my hand off the throttle holding on to the front brake lever clamp.

I still don't understand that. I have no trouble at all actually using the grip while riding with the cruise. It doesn't interfere in any way. I just don't know why you have to hold the bar somewhere besides the grip. Yeah, the grip moves all by itself, but I can't hold it strongly enough on mine to keep the cruise from working.

Damn, Howie, I hijacked your thread again. (At least I contributed first. . . . )

 

[Zorlac]

"the horns "tooted" briefly JUST as the windshield bottomed out on retract."

WAG

Any chance wiring could be getting pinched or chaffed by the windshield mechanics?

 

[smitty141]

Might be the car tire.... Smitty

 

[user 213]

"the horns "tooted" briefly JUST as the windshield bottomed out on retract."
WAG

Any chance wiring could be getting pinched or chaffed by the windshield mechanics?

+1 This is the first place I'd be checking too. Go for the simple and obvious stuff before you start taking relays and switches apart. Look at the screen itself, then the arms, for pinch points.

Good luck RH, you'll find it and it will be silly simple to fix.

 

[Patriot]

I still occassionally bump the kill switch while riding with the AVCC cruise engaged and my hand off the throttle holding on to the front brake lever clamp.

I still don't understand that. I have no trouble at all actually using the grip while riding with the cruise. It doesn't interfere in any way. I just don't know why you have to hold the bar somewhere besides the grip. Yeah, the grip moves all by itself, but I can't hold it strongly enough on mine to keep the cruise from working.

Damn, Howie, I hijacked your thread again. (At least I contributed first. . . . )

I squeeze with a death grip just before and during hitting a "bump" or debris on the interstate. My dirt bike instincs kick in and I raise my butt off the seat pulling on the bars. I tend to close the throttle when pulling up. The cruise de-sets.

While all that is happening, the outside of my thumb brushes the kill switch.

New Orleans interstate till just recently was beat up by Katrina and the patches have patches and the slabs have sunk or risen in different places. I have to ride in the left lane because the middle and right were dangerous from the bumps.

Most of it has been resurfaced in the last year. Was fun though riding on the ridged subsurface just after scraping it all and the one scraped lane and the one resurfaced lane next to it with the 2" ridge between lanes. Yikes.

no problems when just riding along on smooth roads...I do find now that I can hold the grip better and OK

grip puppies are quite high friction with leather gloves and I can feel the throttle float

and mostly I use the least energy leaning back with feet on highway pegs and right hand thumping to the mp3 music against my leg with hand nowhere near the grip.

So there

 

[Fred W]

Might be the car tire.... Smitty

I'm with the Smith-meister. We didn't know exactly how those CT's were going to effect you. All that talk about your balls falling off and such were just a euphemism. But now the raven has come home to roost. Oh yeah, you're gonna be sorry for messing with the motorcycle gods...



PS = when I saw the thread title I thought you had gone and stacked it up.

Then when I started reading the thread I thought you'd had an electrical fire and the Phoenix had spontaneously combusted and was a pile of ash somewhere in steamy Floriduh.

How very anti-climactic to learn that it was just your li'l ole' horn tooting at you... :glare:

 

[wheatonFJR]

Somehow, I don't see much technical help happening from this point forward. Someone said Car Tire.

 

[Grumpy]

I told you the motor would only run with Yamaha Racing oil in, didn't I???? And exactly what kind of crap did you pour in it???? It's revolting!!!!, that's what's happening.....guaranteeeeeee

jim

 

[Patriot]

ya balls are jammed between the horns and the frame causing the short