Fuel injector question

[Klubis]

My 2007 FJR feels as though it's not running on all 4. I will change the plugs next weekend, but could this be caused by a bad or dirt injector?

 

[RaYzerman19]

The short answer is yes, could be. But, change the plugs and see if it gets better. Has the bike been sitting a couple of weeks or more? If so, then add some Seafoam to the fuel to get rid of any water. After that if it's not all better, try an injector cleaner or RingFree and see if that clears it up. Let us know.

 

[rbentnail]

Had any maintenance done lately, maybe like valve check?

 

[JamesK]

My 2007 FJR feels as though it's not running on all 4. I will change the plugs next weekend, but could this be caused by a bad or dirt injector?

The short answer is yes, could be. But, change the plugs and see if it gets better. Has the bike been sitting a couple of weeks or more? If so, then add some Seafoam to the fuel to get rid of any water. After that if it's not all better, try an injector cleaner or RingFree and see if that clears it up. Let us know.

How much mileage is on the current plugs, and are these the el-cheapo or Iridium plugs? If you're not running the Ir plugs and are due for new plugs, I would advise getting a set of CR8EIX.

You can pick up a set of 4 for like $33 on eBay, not only are they much better plugs but also last more than twice as long. I can typically get 25-30k miles out of my Ir plugs, before changing them just for the heck of it, not because they fail or start giving problems.

CR8EIX

 

[Klubis]

Less than 2,000 miles. It sat a lot before I got it last November. I've run a whole can of Seafoam through it so water shouldn't be an issue. Come to think of it, at 2,000 miles plugs really shouldn't be an issue either, unless a lot of idling or lugging was done by the PO? I hadn't thought of the ring free or injector cleaner, so I'll give that a try. Thanks for the suggestions from all. I'll let you know how it goes. Unfortunately I won't be able to do anything until next weekend.

 

[garyahouse]

I know that once upon a time when we had 100 percent gas in every tank, water was often an issue. Believe it or not, EVEN with 10 percent ethanol in everybody's gas these days, water in the gas is still a factor. Though the hygroscopic nature of ethanol does indeed absorb any moisture in the tank, it can only absorb so much. Water can can still form in the tank from the humidity in the air. I think I read somewhere that for this reason, it's a good idea to keep the tank full when storing the bike. We used to talk about getting "bad gas" right from the pump. We worried about how long the stuff was sitting in the underground tanks at the station. I used to avoid low volume gas stations for that reason. I wonder how much of a factor that might be today.
+1 on Ray's advice about using SeaFoam. Great stuff. However, its not a bad idea to give it a good amount of time to do its work.
You wondered about a lot of idling in the past. That is highly likely. Many bikes that sit in garages for extended periods are started every couple weeks or so, and allowed to idle for several minutes to warm them up. With only 2k on the clock in 7 years, I'd say your guess is probably correct.
At what conditions and/or RPMs does this misfire take place? Is it constant, or intermittent? I assume you know about lifting the tank and getting at those plugs? I also assume you know that here's a lot of information on this forum about all that.

By the way, you didn't mention this when you started the thread called, "Why does the shaft drive gear oil smell so bad?" Was this going on back then?

Also, there's some relevant info here CLICKY. You ought to read that thread. It contains info about Sea Foam, Ring Free, and injector problems.

Gary
darksider #44

 

[RaYzerman19]

I am assuming you didn't dump a whole can of Seafoam in the tank, as too much will cause poor running..... stick to double dose at best.

Ethanol's saturation point is about 4.5% water, but it also phase separates over time ( a week or two). Anything over 2-3 oz. water in 5 gals. will not be absorbed and sit on the bottom where the fuel pickup is. The isopropanol in Seafoam is a much better water absorber.

Anyway, also assuming water is not the issue, try some injector cleaner/RingFree in a fresh tank and see if it clears up a possibly clogged/partly clogged injector. If not, I'd think hard about ultrasonic cleaning of the injectors.

You might also think about checking the ground spiders, although judging by other discussions, that might simply cause a no-start (which could be intermittent).

 

[C&C]

No matter what you put in the tank (to absorb water), I would siphon out the original fuel and start with fresh (and run that 'puppy' on the hwy). If it won't run highway speeds then perhaps your troubleshooting will need to go deeper. Gut feeling is fuel (though we still are only guessing without seeing the bike and knowing the storing conditions, etc.).

p.s. (post script) When you pull out the old gas (if you do), what does it look like; that can be very telling, i.e., murky, rusty, etc.

 

[bluesdog]

I'm betting on a fouled injector. Ring-free or another good injector cleaner, (techron, redline, lucas..), may do the job, but be prepared to pull the injectors and have them cleaned professionally.

 

[Klubis]

I know that once upon a time when we had 100 percent gas in every tank, water was often an issue. Believe it or not, EVEN with 10 percent ethanol in everybody's gas these days, water in the gas is still a factor. Though the hygroscopic nature of ethanol does indeed absorb any moisture in the tank, it can only absorb so much. Water can can still form in the tank from the humidity in the air. I think I read somewhere that for this reason, it's a good idea to keep the tank full when storing the bike. We used to talk about getting "bad gas" right from the pump. We worried about how long the stuff was sitting in the underground tanks at the station. I used to avoid low volume gas stations for that reason. I wonder how much of a factor that might be today.+1 on Ray's advice about using SeaFoam. Great stuff. However, its not a bad idea to give it a good amount of time to do its work.

You wondered about a lot of idling in the past. That is highly likely. Many bikes that sit in garages for extended periods are started every couple weeks or so, and allowed to idle for several minutes to warm them up. With only 2k on the clock in 7 years, I'd say your guess is probably correct.

At what conditions and/or RPMs does this misfire take place? Is it constant, or intermittent? I assume you know about lifting the tank and getting at those plugs? I also assume you know that here's a lot of information on this forum about all that.

By the way, you didn't mention this when you started the thread called, "Why does the shaft drive gear oil smell so bad?" Was this going on back then?

Also, there's some relevant info here CLICKY. You ought to read that thread. It contains info about Sea Foam, Ring Free, and injector problems.

Gary

darksider #44

Thanks, Gary. Yeah, it was running better when I changed the shaft drive fluid, but it wasn't running great. So I got the Sea Foam and maybe ( probably) was too aggressive with it. It has gotten worse since then. The thing is, starting it cold everything seems ok until it idles down ( warms up) which I think suggests the plugs are fine.

It'll pull 80 on the interstate, but not much happens when I twist the throttle from there. It will go faster, but it doesn't accelerate like a 1300 to my mind. It just doesn't run right. It takes quite a bit of clutch slipping to launch it. My FZ1 doesn't even need gas if I let out the clutch moderately. I didn't expect the FJR to be faster, but I did expect it to be fast, and right now it's not.

What would be the smoking gun for a fouled or bad injector? It's been getting progressively worse.

 

[Klubis]

No matter what you put in the tank (to absorb water), I would siphon out the original fuel and start with fresh (and run that 'puppy' on the hwy). If it won't run highway speeds then perhaps your troubleshooting will need to go deeper. Gut feeling is fuel (though we still are only guessing without seeing the bike and knowing the storing conditions, etc.).
p.s. (post script) When you pull out the old gas (if you do), what does it look like; that can be very telling, i.e., murky, rusty, etc.

C&C, thanks. It had 1600 miles on it when I got it in November. I ran about 100 miles and topped it off with zero ethanol 93 octane, ran about another 100 and put in a half can of Sea Foam and topped it off with 10% ethanol regular and ran another hundred. Put in the rest of the Foam and topped it off again. Ran another 100 on interstate trying to get the system cleaned out. Topped it off. Still not right. Should I drain all of the gas and take a look at it? I would have thought any bad gas would be diluted by now.

 

[ANZAC]

You are not alone.

I have to keep my revs above 2000 while in the friction zone or the bike will stumble and begin to stall. I am using Yamalube Ring Free gas treatment, replaced my KN air filter with normal OEM, replaced TPS and had the TBS done.

Mine is a used bike that sat for a while so the combination of gas treatment and usage will hopefully clean things up. Read all the postings on lean running and stalling and it's seems to be a hit or miss with some bikes but Yamaha leaned these bikes out a lot to pass EPA.

You can try the Power Commander or Accelerator Module which will help with lean throttle at lower speeds.

 

[C&C]

Guessing again (sorry), getting back to being a low mileage/stored bike; have you checked for an obstructed air filter. There have been reported cases of 'critters' getting into the airfilter (making nests, storing nuts and other blockages). This could produce some of the symptoms you report.

 

[3dogs]

My 2007 FJR feels as though it's not running on all 4. I will change the plugs next weekend, but could this be caused by a bad or dirt injector?

How do you know it's not running on all 4? What are the symptoms? Does this happen hot, cold, at idle, steady crusie or light/heavy acceleration?

Need a more specific description of what you're experiencing before jumping on the diagnosis bandwagon.

 

[RaYzerman19]

You MAY have too much Seafoam.... what CC said, siphon it and put in fresh fuel with no additives and see what happens. Yes to looking at the air filter..... after you try this, let us know. There may be effects from the bike sitting, so then add injector cleaner/Ring Free. May take time to work itself out... in that case I'd lean towards getting the injectors cleaned.

The '06-'07's run lean and might stumble at launch, surge at 2500. IMHO, best fix is a PCIII or PCV, G2 throttle tube.

 

[CrabbyJack]

Mine ran fine like this...

Disregard...

Photo not working.

 

[Klubis]

Pulled the filter, no critters or obstructions. While I had the filter out sprayed throttle body cleaner in each of the intake tubes with the engine running to clean the butterflies, etc. got a PCV from Fuel Moto and it makes no difference. Used the onboard diagnostics to check the TPS cold and it's right on, but haven't checked it hot. All the " air screws" were at 3/4, moved them to 1, but have not done the sync.

I'm gonna change the plugs but I don't really think they are the problem. The injectors look like they would be easy to pull, right?

Do you think the Sea Foam might have loosened up a bunch of sploonge in the tank that has clogged the filters and injectors?

I like this bike and I know in time I'll get it right and then "it" will become "she", and it's not really killing me that it's not running right. I try one thing per weekend on the FJR, and if it doesn't fix the problem which so far it hasn't, I satisfy my "jones" on the FZ. But I do want it to run the way it should because based on what I've seen posted on this forum and on the FZ01A forum this bike is a lot better than what I've been experiencing. I've just got to figure it out.

Plus then I will have a fun fast nimble scooter that doesn't make my a$$ hurt after 2 hours.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Looking forward to meeting some of you over in the western part of my state (NC).

 

[RaYzerman19]

It is more likely that ethanol loosened up splooge, and it won't dissolve it, that is, if any splooge was loosened at all. The naptha in Seafoam gently dissolves gums and splooge over time, but it's sounding like time to pull the injectors and have them cleaned. It's not that difficult if you're so inclined.

Another thought, check the plug wires at the coils to ensure they are connected tight, and at the plugs themselves.

 

[JamesK]

It is more likely that ethanol loosened up splooge, and it won't dissolve it, that is, if any splooge was loosened at all. The naptha in Seafoam gently dissolves gums and splooge over time, but it's sounding like time to pull the injectors and have them cleaned. It's not that difficult if you're so inclined.
Another thought, check the plug wires at the coils to ensure they are connected tight, and at the plugs themselves.

Where would you typically get the Injectors (removed from the bike) cleaned? What kind of equipment would be required to do the injector cleaning?