Hard hitting video..............

[Surly]

Hi Fred,

To deep for me. Although I tend to lean to the perspective of mcatrophy, If I attend a funeral I share the pain and grief of those around me, never thought of it as entertainment.

Best regards

Surly

 

[Fred W]

Who said anything about it being entertainment?

On the other hand, all of life is merely entertainment. Mostly we take ourselves far too seriously, but nobody else does.

 

[Surly]

Biggest issue I have with doing something stupid is not so much the result for me, but the effect on others, whether they be whoever is involved on the road (could range from inconvenienced, through out-of-pocket, maimed or killed) or my own family and friends, some of whom might actually mourn me. Also, although no-one is financially totally dependant on me, my wife's income will drop substantially on my demise.

OK, I apologize in advance, but now I'm going to go all existential on you here...

While this perceived "effect on others" is a major motivational driving force on many (most? all?) of us, how do we really know if there actually are others?

How do we know that all of these "others" that we perceive to exist are not just figments of our own imagination? How do we know it is not just something that our overactive minds have conjured up to entertain ourselves through whatever existence it is that we actually occupy?

Should we spend much of our efforts to modify our own perceived behaviors in order to satisfy these "others", who may or may not exist, or instead to improve our own experiences, real or imagined?

Think about that.

 

[Fred W]

A fine demonstration of how important context is.

Entertainment is something one does to amuse others.

What I was referring to was something that was completely internal.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I think Fred may have tapped into Matrix.

 

[bigjohnsd]

I'm nearly 63 years old.

I have raised my kids and they are on their own.

My wife is provided for should I meet my demise.

I have been told that "If you crash that thing you had better crash it good because I'm not wiping your ass for the next twenty years."

That said and understood, I have been known to exceed the speed limit upon occasion. I have judiciously passed across the double yellow line. I have doubled the speed of a yellow signed corner. I have doubled the maximum speed limit on a long lonely road. I have scared myself once or twice.

Despite the above, I feel like I'm a pretty responsible rider as when I do those things I ought not to do I make a calculated assessment of the risk involved.

It is/would be a personal failure to me when or if someone else were to have to take action to avoid me. I also consider it a personal failure if I UNINTENTIONALLY cross out of my lane into the oncoming lane even if no one is there.

Am I a hooligan?

 

[Pterodactyl]

Except for the nearly 63 years old part your description pretty much fits me; I am 63. On the one hand I think you describe a pretty reasonable guy who is not totally risk adverse but has learned how to do a risk assesment so as not to get in over his head. Our chicken stips have grown as have our waistlines. But then I look at many men who are of our same age who seem to do nothing that entails the slightest hint of risk or adrenaline generation. To those sort of folks I suspect you are the worst sort of hooligan, and that makes them very envious.

 

[bigjohnsd]

I guess those are the guys that can get 16,000 miles out of a set of PR3s?

 

[mcatrophy]

Biggest issue I have with doing something stupid is not so much the result for me, but the effect on others, whether they be whoever is involved on the road (could range from inconvenienced, through out-of-pocket, maimed or killed) or my own family and friends, some of whom might actually mourn me. Also, although no-one is financially totally dependant on me, my wife's income will drop substantially on my demise.

OK, I apologize in advance, but now I'm going to go all existential on you here...

While this perceived "effect on others" is a major motivational driving force on many (most? all?) of us, how do we really know if there actually are others?

How do we know that all of these "others" that we perceive to exist are not just figments of our own imagination? How do we know it is not just something that our overactive minds have conjured up to entertain ourselves through whatever existence it is that we actually occupy?

Should we spend much of our efforts to modify our own perceived behaviors in order to satisfy these "others", who may or may not exist, or instead to improve our own experiences, real or imagined?

Think about that.

A few weeks ago, I posted in James Burleigh's topic "Office White Board: Aristotle, motorcycles, and metaphysics" this:

I sometimes think, therefore I might be.

I shall add to that:

"Sometimes I think there are others, therefore they might be" - mcatrophy.

Are you prepared to take the risk that they don't exist? (Note the subtle way of staying on topic with the use of the word "risk".)

 

[Donal]

Not too sure about the existential bit. I have always thought that 'reality' is much more interesting.

What we 'see' is not what is actually there.

What we 'see' is in reality electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum, it is 'converted' to colour in our brains.

The electromagnetic radiation that we 'see' is what is not absorbed (so it's reflected) by whatever it is we are looking at.

The chances are there is nothing solid anywhere, just 'force fields' that absorb/reflect electromagnetic radiation........ YMMV

 

[Uncle Hud]

Motorcyclists practice risk assessment every time we ride -- every second that we ride. bigjohnsd says it plainly, and if you can't honestly say the same you're kidding yourself. I do not think it ironic that James Burleigh (mentioned above) is one of us and practices risk assessment for a living.

Many on this forum have ridden for dozens of years and a hundred thousand miles because they innately practice that risk assessment. Yes, and also because we were lucky every now and then. The rider in this video did not practice it well on his last day, and also was unlucky.

FredW, I thought a lot about Plato's shadows on his cave wall throughout high school and college. Then I had two babies, and really, truly came to believe that there are "others" in the world. Still get shown that evidence on a quiet night with friends or family ....

.... and when I see something like the video that kicked off this thread. We most certainly do not live inside our own minds.

 

[RichDoyle]

Biggest issue I have with doing something stupid is not so much the result for me, but the effect on others, whether they be whoever is involved on the road (could range from inconvenienced, through out-of-pocket, maimed or killed) or my own family and friends, some of whom might actually mourn me. Also, although no-one is financially totally dependant on me, my wife's income will drop substantially on my demise.

OK, I apologize in advance, but now I'm going to go all existential on you here...

While this perceived "effect on others" is a major motivational driving force on many (most? all?) of us, how do we really know if there actually are others?

How do we know that all of these "others" that we perceive to exist are not just figments of our own imagination? How do we know it is not just something that our overactive minds have conjured up to entertain ourselves through whatever existence it is that we actually occupy?

Should we spend much of our efforts to modify our own perceived behaviors in order to satisfy these "others", who may or may not exist, or instead to improve our own experiences, real or imagined?

Think about that.

More accurately, this is termed "solipsism". A good way to rationalize totally 100% self-centered behavior.

 

[Fred W]

More accurately, this is termed "solipsism". A good way to rationalize totally 100% self-centered behavior.

Why should I care what you think? You don't really exist, as far as I know.

If you do exist, prove it.

 

[RichDoyle]

I don't exist. Therefore this is your subconscious speaking

 

[SouthernCruizer]

I don't exist. Therefore this is your subconscious speaking

HA! Touche'

 

[James Burleigh]

Motorcyclists practice risk assessment every time we ride -- every second that we ride. bigjohnsd says it plainly, and if you can't honestly say the same you're kidding yourself. I do not think it ironic that James Burleigh (mentioned above) is one of us and practices risk assessment for a living.

Many on this forum have ridden for dozens of years and a hundred thousand miles because they innately practice that risk assessment. Yes, and also because we were lucky every now and then. The rider in this video did not practice it well on his last day, and also was unlucky.

FredW, I thought a lot about Plato's shadows on his cave wall throughout high school and college. Then I had two babies, and really, truly came to believe that there are "others" in the world. Still get shown that evidence on a quiet night with friends or family ....

.... and when I see something like the video that kicked off this thread. We most certainly do not live inside our own minds.

Thanks, Hud. Here, again, is a link to the article I published in the July 2012 issue of Friction Zone motorcycle magazine entitled "Managing Risk--Where Do You Fit In?", which is about applying risk management principles to motorcycle riding so that riders do not have to rely on intuition about managing the risks inherent in riding.

What I did not mention in that article, because I had not at the time thought through how it fits into the whole risk framework, is the effect of the "luck factor." In my view, the young man in the subject video relied [too much, presuming he did not want that to be his last ride] on the luck factor to get home safe.

As a trained philosopher (BA, Philosophy, UC Berkeley

), I will not comment on that side of things since I gave all that up 30 years ago for a colossal waste of time. (Though you impressed the schnitzle outta me, Unkka Hud, with that esoteric reference to Plato's Republic.

)

 

[Uncle Hud]

****, bro, us Southern boys read stuff every now and then ...

 

[BigOgre]

Biggest issue I have with doing something stupid is not so much the result for me, but the effect on others, whether they be whoever is involved on the road (could range from inconvenienced, through out-of-pocket, maimed or killed) or my own family and friends, some of whom might actually mourn me. Also, although no-one is financially totally dependant on me, my wife's income will drop substantially on my demise.

OK, I apologize in advance, but now I'm going to go all existential on you here...

While this perceived "effect on others" is a major motivational driving force on many (most? all?) of us, how do we really know if there actually are others?

How do we know that all of these "others" that we perceive to exist are not just figments of our own imagination? How do we know it is not just something that our overactive minds have conjured up to entertain ourselves through whatever existence it is that we actually occupy?

Should we spend much of our efforts to modify our own perceived behaviors in order to satisfy these "others", who may or may not exist, or instead to improve our own experiences, real or imagined?

Think about that.

Ever see Shutter Island?

 

[Fred W]

No. Was it good?

 

[bluesdog]