Headlight lens deteriorating from the inside

[dustyrains]

Check out the two distinct areas of deterioration on the INSIDE of the lens. There is a horizontal band of fine vertical cracks near the top, and another horizontal band of what looks to be pitting right about the middle. Right and left lens both have the same pattern. This is an 06 with 27k miles. I put in Philips X-Treme bulbs maybe 6 or 8 months ago. I ride with high beams on about 80 per cent of daylight hours, guesstimating. Could the brighter bulbs be causing this?

 

[Ignacio]

Remember it (or similar issue) being discussed here.

 

[Udjeni]

I have the same on my '07. First noticed it after it came back from a service at the dealer. Based on the thread referenced by Iggy it seems they may have washed the bike with something the headlights did not like. It certainly isn't something I did sinceI hardly ever wash the bike (that's what riding in the rain is for).

 

[fjrchooser]

Updated below/ duplicate..

 

[fjrchooser]

I agree with Ionbeams theory of chemical crazing. One of my jobs was D & D testing on instruments clusters for Ford Motor Co.. I saw/caused this same effect on instrument cluster lenses hundreds of times over my 32 years. Some of the worst offenders were common interior cleaning & preservation products.

Recycling rags used for leather seat cleaning etc. can result in cross contamination when later used for other areas even after washing. Certain lights can accelerate this process.

One of our tests was carbon arc lighting in a weatherometer machine. Test samples rotated around the arc source could simulate 1 years worth of UV sunlight in just 100 hrs. Test sample damage looked very much like the photos here.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I had exactly the same condition on my 07 headlight lenses. Yamaha replaced them under/during the original 1-year warranty. The condition has not returned, even though I have continued to use exactly the same chemicals & polishes for cleaning the bike. IMO your problem is NOT related to any cleaning chemicals but is a manfacturing defect. That's not to say that IonBeam is wrong. Chemicals certainly can and do cause the same type failures. Yours however, looks hauntingly familiar to me.

As to the bulbs being the cause, my lenses "crazed" while running bone stock bulbs. Since replacing the lenses, I've run Philips Vision-Plus bulbs. I also ride with headlights on high-beam almost all the time.

Since I live in a warm climate area, I suspected the additional heat of high beam may have contributed to the crazing. I did notice that the crazing expanded much more rapidly in colder weather than warm. Subsequent discussions with lighting engineers led me to determine that the thermal stress of high-beam on the inside, combined with cold air rushing against the outside surface was causing enough physical stress on the lenses to accelerate the crazing. Maybe, perhaps???

One thing is for certain, the crazing will not stop. It will get worse. It will get so bad that it eventually penetrates to the outside surfaces too, where you will be able to feel it with a fingernail.

I added a set of CeeBailey headlight protectors to my steed, along with the Philips Vision-Plus bulbs. Two years and over 50,000 miles have passed since those original lenses were replaced. My headlight lenses look perfect.

Once again, it's only my opinion based on my limited personal experience. But I believe Yamaha had a "bad run" of headlight lenses in the late-'06 to early-'07 models. I'll be happy to speak with your local dealer and or Yamaha if they want to talk about it. Just shoot me a PM.

 

[dustyrains]

I had exactly the same condition on my 07 headlight lenses. Yamaha replaced them under/during the original 1-year warranty. The condition has not returned, even though I have continued to use exactly the same chemicals & polishes for cleaning the bike. IMO your problem is NOT related to any cleaning chemicals but is a manfacturing defect. That's not to say that IonBeam is wrong. Chemicals certainly can and do cause the same type failures. Yours however, looks hauntingly familiar to me.
As to the bulbs being the cause, my lenses "crazed" while running bone stock bulbs. Since replacing the lenses, I've run Philips Vision-Plus bulbs. I also ride with headlights on high-beam almost all the time.

Since I live in a warm climate area, I suspected the additional heat of high beam may have contributed to the crazing. I did notice that the crazing expanded much more rapidly in colder weather than warm. Subsequent discussions with lighting engineers led me to determine that the thermal stress of high-beam on the inside, combined with cold air rushing against the outside surface was causing enough physical stress on the lenses to accelerate the crazing. Maybe, perhaps???

One thing is for certain, the crazing will not stop. It will get worse. It will get so bad that it eventually penetrates to the outside surfaces too, where you will be able to feel it with a fingernail.

I added a set of CeeBailey headlight protectors to my steed, along with the Philips Vision-Plus bulbs. Two years and over 50,000 miles have passed since those original lenses were replaced. My headlight lenses look perfect.

Once again, it's only my opinion based on my limited personal experience. But I believe Yamaha had a "bad run" of headlight lenses in the late-'06 to early-'07 models. I'll be happy to speak with your local dealer and or Yamaha if they want to talk about it. Just shoot me a PM.

Thanks a bunch, Ashe. Nice analysis. I tend to agree with your take on the problem. I have not used any harsh chemicals on the bike, only the standard products you might purchase to clean or detail any automobile. The fact that the defects are originating on the inside of the lens, and are occurring in a repeatable pattern on both lenses eliminate the possibility that this is an owner chemically induced problem. I believe they are an OEM production problem, which tracks with your report that your replacement lens are still doing fine. I have YES and will be getting the bike into Beaverton Yamaha soon. And thanks for the offer to back me up with the dealership if necessary.

 

[fjr183]

Their were problems like this with the 2003 model.

It was deemed a problem with the Mfg process, due temp

when forming the lenses.

Fred

 

[fjrchooser]

Be careful with what you call 'harsh' chemicals. Common items innocuous to you and I could be fatal if we were made of polycarbonate. And of what you consider exposure to be.

Even being in a garage where certain chemicals are stored improperly or being used for other applications on other vehicles can be enough to start the process.

Whatever the cause of your lense issue, I hope Yamaha takes care of it for you. Those suckers are expensive !

 

[bramfrank]

Well, mine was an early '06 and the problem has recurred - I'm waiting for the new reflector as we speak - Yamaha will replace it again under my extended warranty . . .

I believe it was gasoline fumes, probably sucked into the reflector during the refueling process while the assembly was cooling down.

 

[dustyrains]

Well, mine was an early '06 and the problem has recurred - I'm waiting for the new reflector as we speak - Yamaha will replace it again under my extended warranty . . .
I believe it was gasoline fumes, probably sucked into the reflector during the refueling process while the assembly was cooling down.

Are you referring to the bulb reflector or the transparent protective lens?

 

[dustyrains]

Be careful with what you call 'harsh' chemicals. Common items innocuous to you and I could be fatal if we were made of polycarbonate. And of what you consider exposure to be.Even being in a garage where certain chemicals are stored improperly or being used for other applications on other vehicles can be enough to start the process.

Whatever the cause of your lense issue, I hope Yamaha takes care of it for you. Those suckers are expensive !

This is the Turtle Wax product I have been using. Lifted the text from the product web page. Anyone see anything that might be harmful to the lens?

Liquid Polish

ICE® is a clear wax formulated with completely new technology that blends silicone and hydrocarbon polymers to provide extraordinary shine and durability.

Product Benefits

* Can be applied to all exterior rubber, plastic and vinyl trim to restore color and shine without leaving white residue.

* Unlike conventional waxes, ICE™ can be applied in direct sunlight or on a hot surface without streaking or wax build-up.

* A single application will provide extraordinary shine however, multiple layers will further increase depth of gloss and shine.

* Formulated with light stabilizers to protect your car’s finish from the suns damaging UV rays.

* Complete kit includes a custom applicator and microfiber towel.

 

[fjrchooser]

ICE should be fine. If its not, it'd be on them for not excluding its use after saying fine for all plastics. I also use it.

My point was that exposure to degrading chemicals could be something you didn't do knowingly, or could have been done by someone else entirely that meant you no harm..

Using gas station courtesy windshield sqeegees to remove bugs, grime etc. is one example of potential accidental cross contamination many people never give a second thought to. If your bike has ever been in for service where other vehicles are also being serviced is another. It only takes once.

The two bands on your lenses likely correlate to the high and low beam cutoffs where light is concentrated by the reflector. The resulting crazing in those areas is typical of the acceleration factor intense artificial light can cause when poly has been subjected to chemicals.

 

[Bounce]

Their were problems like this with the 2003 model. It was deemed a problem with the Mfg process, due temp when forming the lenses. - Fred

really? is there a tech note on this? i've never heard it before (and don't currently have the problem with my '03 SN 7xx). i've always used Meguire's clear plastic cleaner/polish.

 

[dustyrains]

The two bands on your lenses likely correlate to the high and low beam cutoffs where light is concentrated by the reflector. The resulting crazing in those areas is typical of the acceleration factor intense artificial light can cause when poly has been subjected to chemicals.

Interesting. I was thinking that the two bands might correlate to the hi and low cutoffs. Does anybody know what type of plastic we have on these items? I have seen the word polycarbonate tossed around. What about Lexan?

 

[BanjoBoy]

The two bands on your lenses likely correlate to the high and low beam cutoffs where light is concentrated by the reflector. The resulting crazing in those areas is typical of the acceleration factor intense artificial light can cause when poly has been subjected to chemicals.

Interesting. I was thinking that the two bands might correlate to the hi and low cutoffs. Does anybody know what type of plastic we have on these items? I have seen the word polycarbonate tossed around. What about Lexan?

Dude,

I have the exact same thing as you, (And others) with the two different lines of "crazing" at about the high and low beam. I doubt its any kind of cleaner, it's obviously a faulty design. (Bogus plastics) Yamaha didn't want to make these things perfect, they had to have some kind of flaw.

 

[bob-st]

Looks like I also have the same lens "crazing".

Has anyone had Yamaha refuse to correct this problem?

 

[dustyrains]

Looks like I also have the same lens "crazing".
Has anyone had Yamaha refuse to correct this problem?

I will be taking mine in to my dealer tech for a look at this, probably next week sometime. I have the YES and I would expect it will cover the labor and parts cost of replacing these parts. So far, with other problems YES has been great. Will post my results.

 

[dustyrains]

The two bands on your lenses likely correlate to the high and low beam cutoffs where light is concentrated by the reflector. The resulting crazing in those areas is typical of the acceleration factor intense artificial light can cause when poly has been subjected to chemicals.

Interesting. I was thinking that the two bands might correlate to the hi and low cutoffs. Does anybody know what type of plastic we have on these items? I have seen the word polycarbonate tossed around. What about Lexan?

Dude,

I have the exact same thing as you, (And others) with the two different lines of "crazing" at about the high and low beam. I doubt its any kind of cleaner, it's obviously a faulty design. (Bogus plastics) Yamaha didn't want to make these things perfect, they had to have some kind of flaw.

Now that's just down right cynical and pessimistic. And not very trusting either. :hyper: :ermm: