Heated Liner

[hppants]

Just wondering why not the WarmNSafe liner?

Two C's:

1. Current - the Warm and Safe draws 90 watts v/s the Synergy's 65 watts.

2. Cost - the W/S after the controller would cost well over $100.00 more than the Synergy - considering the $30.00 gift card offered by New Enough. I'm not opposed to spending the extra money, but I don't see the value.

Yet again, I'm ignorant - please educate me, my friends.

 

[2006FJR]

Just wondering why not the WarmNSafe liner?

Two C's:

1. Current - the Warm and Safe draws 90 watts v/s the Synergy's 65 watts.

2. Cost - the W/S after the controller would cost well over $100.00 more than the Synergy - considering the $30.00 gift card offered by New Enough. I'm not opposed to spending the extra money, but I don't see the value.

Yet again, I'm ignorant - please educate me, my friends.

Warm and safe also offers it in a 65 watt option. LINK

Cost for me is all about how long something lasts and the warranty if something goes wrong. If you really take the time to read around on this forum and others you will see where Synergy is vs W&S. In the end its your call just understand many others before you have bought wrong and are trying to help.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Just wondering why not the WarmNSafe liner?

Two C's:

1. Current - the Warm and Safe draws 90 watts v/s the Synergy's 65 watts.

2. Cost - the W/S after the controller would cost well over $100.00 more than the Synergy - considering the $30.00 gift card offered by New Enough. I'm not opposed to spending the extra money, but I don't see the value.

Yet again, I'm ignorant - please educate me, my friends.

The 65 watt won`t be as warm as a 90, but W&S sells a 65 watt version if you prefer. If you ride a lot in 30 degree range, you`ll want warmer. You`re right you`ll pay a few bucks more for W&S, but will you get the same customer service with Tourmaster? I`d think they`ll both perform similarly... matter of personal choice.

Edit - Oops I see 2006FJR beat me to it.

 

[phroenips]

I think it was already mentioned in this thread, but it might deserve re-stating...W&S offers a discount for forum members. I think it's 20%, but don't quote me on that.

 

[SeattleTy]

Gerbing here, great warranty service too if you ever have any problems.

 

[jcyuhn]

I have the Firstgear 90 watt jacket liner, heated gloves, and "portable" dual controller. Can't say enough good things about them.

I went with the dual portable controller vs the wireless because I dislike things that need battery changes. I have it permanently mounted on the bike; control box up near the glovebox, power leads under the seat. After using it for a while, I would point y'all toward the dual wireless controller. It's slickness and simplicity offsets the hassle of a batter. The controller is a small box that can be attached anywhere convenient w/velcro - top of the clutch master cylinder, a dashboard, etc. The jacket liner has a receiver stashed in a pocket. There is one power lead to the bike, and from this it independently controls the jacket liner and gloves. Clean, simple, neat, easy to install.

 

[ahchiu]

I think that W&S offers a trade in on your old heated gear if you upgrade to W&S I think is was $100.00

 

[Fred W]

Current - the Warm and Safe draws 90 watts v/s the Synergy's 65 watts.

You only actually use as many watts of power as what you have dialed up with the heat controller. Just because a liner is capable of generating 90 watts of heat doesn't mean that you will ever use it all. When it is a particular ambient temperature you will need "X" watts of heat to keep you warm no matter which liner you use. It is nice to have the ability to go higher should it get really really cold.

As for the wired vs wireless, I like the wired portable controller stuffed into an outside jacket pocket. You are going to be tethered to the bike no matter what anyway, since nobody has yet devised a good way to actually send power to the heated gear wirelessly. (portable battery operated heated gear is mostly a joke)

I've cut some small cable holes in the bottom of that pocket, and can just flip open the pocket and pull out the controller to make adjustments on the fly, as needed. Usually it's just a set-it and forget-it thing, though if you ride through changing temps it is nice to have the ability to adjust on the fly.

I could take some pictures of my pocket modification if anyone is particularly interested, but you shopuld be able to use your imagination. B)

 

[lnewlf]

Gerbing here, great warranty service too if you ever have any problems.

s
Gerbings is da mutz nutz..I have a 10 year old liner with foam insulation in it-without a controller it will fry me off the bike. Got their pants liner too but like Fred sed,don't need it anymore since the FJR. I bring them both with me if it might rain instead of a rain suit as they are almost as waterproof as a decent rainsuit. Gerbings customer service is great.

 

[hppants]

(I hope I'm not jacking someone else's thread too much)

All great responses - exactly what I was looking for. Given the same battery voltage, I suppose the current draw is directly proportional to the amount of heat the jacket puts out. I would assume that one manufacturer doesn't have a more efficient way of designing the heating elements?

I also agree that regardless, I won't be running the liner full blast continuously. Hopefully, an occasional WOT session won't drain my battery, or cause un due toll on my stator (which is really what worries me).

If the darned thing craps out on me when I'm hundreds of miles from home in 30 deg. weather, that's gonna really piss me off.

I'll give the Warm and Safe a closer look - how does one get the FJR forum discount? Is that through a particular vendor/re-seller or directly from W/S?

 

[SkooterG]

I also agree that regardless, I won't be running the liner full blast continuously. Hopefully, an occasional WOT session won't drain my battery, or cause un due toll on my stator (which is really what worries me).

This is a non-issue assuming your are not running a TON of other high-draw farkles like other heated gear and aux lights. Radar detectors and gps are low-draw farkles.

I have been running my 90 watt W&S liner on full power for years along with heated grips (and low-draw farkles) with no issues. On a Gen I, you wouldn't be able add aux lights to that without issues. You would have to back off some on the heated grips and liner.

If you think you are going to be pushing it, I HIGHLY recommend getting a Datel voltmeter installed so you can monitor your electrical load and not be stressed out 'guessing'.

 

[TomInPA]

Watts=warmth. You have 90 watts AVAILABLE on the WnS jacket, it doens't mean you have to use it, but it is there when you NEED it.

If you want to compare apples to apples, you need to look at the Warm n Safe Generation 3 jacket which retails now at $199. You can decide if the Gen4 is worth the extra $40. IMHO it is. Also, you could get an account with a forum organization discount at Warm N Safe and receive a significant discount on all purchases that you won't see until you sign up. Your price at new-enough motorcyclegear.com is not saving you anything.

On controllers, you get what you pay for. Warm N Safe offers single, dual and wireless options. FWIW, there is a reason Warmnsafe sells a Tourmaster adapter. You have the option to do this right the first time. Heat Trollers work by turning the current on and off at a high frequency to maintain the selected temperature, much like the way your regulator/rectifier works. Anyway, you only use the power you need for the conditions. The WarmnSafe heat trollers can actually be wired backwards, and they just shut off. Do that with the tourmaster and it self-destructs. Consider yourself warned.

Once you are cold with an underpowered jacket, it doesn't get better, it just gets colder.

 

[Burnspot]

As for the wired vs wireless, I like the wired portable controller stuffed into an outside jacket pocket. You are going to be tethered to the bike no matter what anyway, since nobody has yet devised a good way to actually send power to the heated gear wirelessly. (portable battery operated heated gear is mostly a joke)

I've cut some small cable holes in the bottom of that pocket, and can just flip open the pocket and pull out the controller to make adjustments on the fly, as needed. Usually it's just a set-it and forget-it thing, though if you ride through changing temps it is nice to have the ability to adjust on the fly.

I could take some pictures of my pocket modification if anyone is particularly interested, but you shopuld be able to use your imagination. B)

I have the dual portable wireless WnS controller and attach it via velcro on top of the clutch reservoir (I loop the attached lanyard around the clutch hose); it works very well. As long as you remember to change the battery on the controller before every season, you're golden. The wireless receiver in the special pocket of the liner is not big, but you'll know it's there; cord's long enough to pull through the left side flap on my Roadcrafter and hook up to the cable that comes up from between seat and tank...easy peasy.

For the WnS coupon code, "advrider" does the trick.

 

[jcyuhn]

As for the wired vs wireless, I like the wired portable controller stuffed into an outside jacket pocket. You are going to be tethered to the bike no matter what anyway, since nobody has yet devised a good way to actually send power to the heated gear wirelessly. (portable battery operated heated gear is mostly a joke)

Perhaps I am just insensitive (ask my wife!), but I cannot feel the controller knobs through the heated gloves to adjust them. So I need the control unit in my line of sight to see which knob I've turned and how much.

For wireless, how about a bike mounted device that heats the rider using microwaves? :huh: But I think we're gonna need a bigger stator...

 

[Hudson]

Thanks to Marcus for the heads up on their trade in option.

I opted for the trade-in option and used my AdvRider discount code, and will send them out my old vest. Cost was about $300 shipped, for a Gen4 jacket and dual remote heat troller. I opted for the "powered remote" heat troller to avoid the hassle of batteries.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I opted for the "powered remote" heat troller to avoid the hassle of batteries.

Must be new.... good option. Had it existed at the time I got mine, I would have went that way.

 

[PhilJet09]

My Gen I Tourmaster vest is going on it's sixth year without any problems. I've always ridden all year long as long as the roads weren't too slippery, so the vest has gotten a fair amount of use. The clip on the back of the controller broke (not a big deal to me) and the eyelette that holds the wires in the vest tore free (fixed that myself). Other than that, the only other time I needed it and it didn't work was my first winter with the FJR. I modified the power wire to plug into the Powerlet I installed, but in my haste didn't realize the cord was about 6" too short to reach it...D'OH! :banghead: That was a really cold ride home. Anyway, I think I've gotten my money out of the thing. Of course, YMMV.

To be perfectly honest though, because of the glowing reviews of the W&S on here, I'll probably go that route when my Tourmaster finally quits.

 

[Niehart]

I opted for the "powered remote" heat troller to avoid the hassle of batteries.

Hudson, don't you have 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 bikes. Kind of hard to move that hard wire troller from bike to bike... just saying ..

 

[Fred W]

Not really. I've just installed a pigtail cable on each bike (two on the FJR since it's my 2-up machine) and keep the hardwired heat-troller in the pockets of our jackets. Easy peasy

(PS - I know I'm not Hudson, and that you weren't really talking to me)

 

[jcyuhn]

I opted for the "powered remote" heat troller to avoid the hassle of batteries.

Must be new.... good option. Had it existed at the time I got mine, I would have went that way.

Definately new, they didn't have it when I ordered stuff earlier this year.