Hypothetical Performance Award Question

[Ari Rankum]

I know "this guy" who got a performance award while on his Feej. Somehow, this ******* let an LEO sneak into his six in one of those mixing bowl situations where three highways come together and then part ways. It was a true mess, and neither the Feej nor the LEO had a shot at a straight path/single lane of travel traversal of the interchange. Nonetheless, in the subsequent roadside conversation, it was revealed that the LEO paced the bike at a speed that begins with 8 and ends with 2. This ******* who let the LEO get into his six in the first place is beyond dubious of the clocked rate. While he admits that he has been wrong about estimating his speed in the past, he's very much thinking this LEO got it wrong when "pacing" the Feej with his cruiser. It wasn't just the lack of opportunity to settle in directly behind the Feej, it was the belief on the part of the rider that the cited speed is an absurd guess.

But this ******* is not a complete *******. He knows that going to court and saying the LEO got it wrong is a non-starter. Cops don't make mistakes. Courts know this. But this particular LEO seemed to be having an off morning. Faced with the much less demanding job of looking at a license and registration in his cruiser, without all the distractions of the pursuit, he copied the name of the rider from the license to the ticket incorrectly * . Is it possible he made a similar error in reading his speedo when pacing a bike?

So, lay it on me, is this the sort of question this ******* should not even bother to ask the judge in favor of just accepting whatever lumps issue from the court?

* Added for clarification: The particular error mentioned above was a mis-spelling of the last name on the ticket.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I feel for your "friend"...

 

[jekirby]

I have heard of many folks who tride to get out of a performance award because the LEO recorded the wrong time, got the model of car wrong, got mile marker or even route number wrong and the focus was on the offense not the details.

Story from my high school daze: I was young and stupid and yes I was doing 50+ in a 25 in my little home town of Marion, VA. The LEO paced me, no radar, and "estimated your speed at___ but will reduce it to ____ seeing your a member of the baseball team." He had never settled in behind me, he just hit his lights and sped up behind me and pulled me over-from a cross street no less. In court, I tried to convey this to the judge, he looked at the LEO and asked for his take on this "Your honor I never pull anyone over unless I am absolutely sure of my speed or theirs." :blink: :blink: :blink: "Good enough for me...guilty"

 

[dcarver]

IIRC, Iggie beat a ticket simply because incorrect data was recorded on the ticket. You may too.. PM Iggie for your, ahh, 'friend', Ari.

 

[MikeYork5]

Yeah, but is this guy a *******?

 

[rickysnickers]

Being an LEO, if the wrong name was placed on the cite, then you will get out of the cite. However, if it's a simple case of putting the last name first as opposed to the first name first, then I think you will be out of luck. I have made small mistakes on a ticket before. I wrote in my notes that I screwed up. I brought it to the court's attention (the judge) and there was never a problem. Meaning the person was still found guilty. Sorry,

Rick

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

I don't think the judge is person to talk to.

Shouldn't you try to work something out with the prosecuting attorney?

 

[Toecutter]

Depending on the consequences, your "friend" could just appear and ask for traffic school, which may be able to be done by mail, and avoid points against your record, all the way to hiring an attorney. Gotta look at the big picture and choose your battles accordingly.

Personally, I do whatever it takes to SAFELY position myself in the biggest pocket of solitude available, which includes an occasional burst of speed or abrupt lane changes. Getting rear-ended is a possibility of a tire failure. In a cage, not too bad. On a bike, usually fatal. Following other vehicles also leaves you subject to unexpected flying or stationary debris in the road without time to react, and slowing to a safe following distance gets those behind you too close for safety.

Here's a video of another hazard of hanging out near cars in traffic. The judge may not be aware of some of the unique hazards to being outside the cage, as opposed to inside. Might be worth a try. I'd recommend it to all my "friends" as an attempt at defense of occasionally exceeding the LEGAL speed limit to SAFELY travel among a bunch of potentially deadly objects.

It's rumored that the Calif. Highway Patrol teaches their motor officers to ride "slightly faster than the flow of traffic", but I haven't confirmed it. We all know the flow of traffic is usually slightly faster than legally posted speed limits.

I would want to convey to the judge, through whatever channels are appropriate, that I always follow the intent of the law, but sometimes run afoul of the letter of the law, as personal survival and safety dictates.

I could go on, but I hope I never have to....

he copied the name of the rider from the license to the ticket incorrectly

People around here have gotten off on less....

 

[MrTwisty]

I had this exact situation a long time ago.

I went to court, and when the judge asked me how I plead and I told him I WAS speeding, but I did not think I was going THAT fast.

He promptly banged his gavel and said "case dismissed".

Pace clocking is not a very accurate means of measuring speed.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Bummer for your friend, Ari -

So he seems to have two issues, a typo and questionable speed.

Easy one first. I'm pretty sure that we in Maryland are screwed on typos. If it's a minor name mis-spell or similar there's an "administrative corrections" clause that a Baltimore County LEO friend has mentioned using.

As for the speed:

I'm sure that some of the legal Beagles on the group will know better, but one thought would be to go to the training/policy manual for whatever jurisdiction, find what they say is the minimum distance to pace to determine speed, and possibly argue that he didn't have that opportunity. You may also ask that jurisdiction if they keep records of their car locations with GPS, as you may be able to show what he was doing.

Bob

Damascus, Md

 

[ponyfool]

Pace clocking is not a very accurate means of measuring speed.

Sure it is, if it's done correctly. Simply pulling up behind a car and saying, "They're going xx mph" may not be accurate. And I've heard the "they have to pace you for a 1/2 mile at least" argument too, and that isn't the case. When I pace someone, I try to match their speed but ever so slightly less. When I can visually see and discern that they are pulling away from me, I look at my speedo, and that's the speed I write them for. Thus, if I'm going 75 and the guy is pulling away from me, he's going at least 75 and anything above that is in his favor.

Of course, the speedo has to be correct (which has been found via most courts to be the case).

In your case though Ari, an incorrect name, ie: a different person, yes, that would be ammo worth having in court. So would transposed numbers on the speed, etc. But a simple typo like rearranged letters on a name, etc, not a chance, even in an extremely generous court system like Portland's.

 

[HaulinAshe]

My best advice, have your friend spend his money and/or time before he gets to the judge.

 

[keithaba]

it was revealed that the LEO paced the bike at a speed that begins with 8 and ends with 2.

Wow, you were doing 802 mph. Maybe the blue fjr's are faster!

Good luck, let us know if you can get out of it due to the improper last name.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Spoke with my BaltCo LEO friend last night and mentioned your "hypothetical." He made a number of points (Note to others, this is a discussion about the area in which Ari and I live, so YMMV):

When the Court date is posted, see who the judge is and ask a traffic officer or traffic attorney about that judge. There are a few in your area who are circuit judges from the eastern shore and you absolutely do not want one of those.

Don't even bother bringing up the typo as long as the "charging document" (the ticket) was clear on who is involved and the charge.

You can't really argue the speed and the officer doesn't have a minimum distance that he needs to follow by. If you go to court and say "I was speeding but not that much, you just admitted guilt in front of a judge and in this area that is an instant verdict.

If you weren't so far over the limit, some people plead that they speeded slightly to move over for the officer. Only works with lenient judges and most judges will have in mind that the LEO on-scene didn't buy it.

Your best bet is to go to court. Rare that an officer won't show since they schedule for court days, but if he doesn't, you can ask for dismissal. Otherwise and you looked into who the judge is, plead for leniency. IF your record is otherwise clean, in your neighborhood are a number of judges who are not happy with tickets being a premium raiser for the insurance industry. If you get one of these, if the officer didn't read from his notes that you were a dick-head, and everybody got up on the right side of the bed, the judge may find you guilty without sentencing. (I probably screwed the wording, but it's close.) The wording keeps your premium from taking a hit. The worst - other than the aggravation of court - is that you get the same as just mailing in a check for your ticket.

Good luck with it.

Bob

 

[wfooshee]

. . . the judge may find you guilty without sentencing.

The phrase you're looking for is "adjudication withheld."

Not that I'd know anything about that. . . . .

 

[FJRMGM]

I don't think the judge is person to talk to.Shouldn't you try to work something out with the prosecuting attorney?

this is your best chance.

 

[Ari Rankum]

I really appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. My friend isn't going to respond individually, and neither am I, because of the way the need for the excellent advice was obviated. It seems the LEO that wrote the citation FTA'd in court. The judge dismissed the many, many cases associated with this particular officer's duties, including my friend's. No points, no fine, no guilt.

For the benefit of those suggesting a conversation with the prosecuting attorney, I should point out that there is no such thing in Maryland for traffic court, at least not for minor cases like 802 MPH on a state highway. The LEO is the state's witness.

For those facing adjudication of performance awards in Howard County, MD, I should point out that this particular judge, the Honorable Judge Axel, went a long way toward explaining his rationale for leniency. All but one person got PBJ (probation before judgement), and a mildly reduced fine. This meant no points and no finding of guilt and, most importantly, no insurance impact. He explained that no tickets for 4-5 years would be sufficient to qualify for PBJ. The one guy who did not qualify elicited grunts from the judge as his driving record came up. He was found guilty, still with a reduced fine.

Best,

 

[GunMD]

A testament to the (dare I say this) maturity of the members of this forum, this thread never even came close to chaos. I know there are other places on the 'net that have to do with the [SIZE=10pt]s[/SIZE]port of [SIZE=10pt]t[/SIZE]ouring this fine [SIZE=10pt]n[/SIZE]ation where this thread would have spiraled out of control...and quickly. I've seen a few places where every discussion of an LEO turns into a festival of cop bashing.

Thanks members and staff (insert Beavis laugh here) for making this place so great.

Oh, and Ari. Your friend is quite lucky. Good for him.

 

[Checkswrecks]

All but one person got PBJ (probation before judgement), and a mildly reduced fine.

Yeah, that's the phrase I wuz lookin' fur, probation before judgement!

The officer didn't happen to have been a State Trooper from the Balt barracks, would he?

Glad it worked out.