Hypothetical Performance Award Question

[Heronboy]

While this discussion is winding down I would add that it is ALWAYS to your advantage to go to court for your tickets. Assuming taking the time off work doesn't result in you being fired, simply showing up will often result in a reduced fine or dismissal of the charge. This has been the case for me each of the four times I went to court. Three of the four times the charge was changed to a non-moving violation and my insurance company never found out about it.

Since the hundreds of dollars each year in extra insurance costs are far more than the lost day(s) of work for court or the $50-$300 fine, it is in your best interest to show up and see if any deal can be arranged. In one case, the county attorney asked me what my story was. I started to tell him, his eyes glazed over and he asked what did I really want. I said I would pay the fine but I didn't want anything on my driving record. He looked me in the eye, said I looked like I was a public nuisance (which was a non-vehicle violation that cost $5 more than my speeding ticket), and sent me to the payment window with my amended plea. Done and back to work by lunch.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...He looked me in the eye, said I looked like I was a public nuisance ..... and sent me to the payment window with my amended plea. Done and back to work by lunch.

Elliot Spitzer (client no.9) should be so lucky.....

 

[Ari Rankum]

Since the hundreds of dollars each year in extra insurance costs are far more than the lost day(s) of work for court or the $50-$300 fine, it is in your best interest to show up and see if any deal can be arranged.

The case that decided it for me happened to a friend of mine (I keep saying that, don't I?). He was uber-ethical. He got a speeding ticket for something similar to 70 in a 55, which will get you run over from behind around here, btw. He said he was just going to mail in a check. ALL of us in the lab told him DON'T DO IT, GO TO COURT. His position was, I'm guilty, no question, it's unethical for me to go to court over this. We tried to explain what you say above, that he can go to court, plead guilty, and still come out way ahead. He said, no, it would be unethical to waste the court's time with this.

So he mailed in the check.

It took a couple of months, but his insurance company found out and promptly CANCELLED his policy. He called around trying to find another insurance company. Now, I'm not suggesting collusion, but, somehow, instantly, no one would insure him.

Maryland has a government program <cough> for the criminally bad drivers, you know, multiple driving under the influence, crashing, road raging types. It's called MAIF (Maryland Automobile Insurance Fund). It's designed to make sure even the criminally bad drivers can get to work. Their rates are designed for those who don't keep vehicles very long before destroying them, and no one else. Yes, Johnny Ethical's insurance premium went from about $400 a year to $4500 a year, just because he didn't think it was right to do anything other than mail in a check.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Ari,

This makes me sick for your friend. Unfortunately, ethics doe not always produce a fair and equitable result in the system.

Hopefully, your friend, can find more equitable solution... register or move to a different state?

I am pulling for your friend... all the best.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Und das ist vy ve call dis Der People's Socialist Republic uf Marland!

Fair un equitable taxes fur all.

My daughter and I were just doing taxes for her whopping $1,800 income. Please explain to her why she has to pay, because she doesn't seem to believe me.

 

[exskibum]

I used to do like your (second?) friend and just write the check for the fine. But until November of 2004, I hadn't had a single citation since 1993, and before that had averaged maybe one every 3 or 4 years. I don't believe I have ever had a citation for anything other than speeding all the way back to 1968, when my first ticket was for a left turn right of way violation at age 16 (didn't appreciate that oncoming car was too close).

After the Nov. '04 ticket, I went to traffic school to keep it off my insurance record. Then, 9 days after getting out of traffic school, I got an unexpected citation for 53 in a 35. I was probably speeding before I hit the 50 zone where I was stopped, but it sure as hell wasn't in the 35 zone -- more like maxing my lawless accelerating to highway speed by doing 45 to 50 in the 40 zone in between. Radar detector didn't go off, but officer saw it and wrote me up claiming radar basis and a couple other inconsistencies. As usual, I was polite and didn't do anything to make him remember me or note it.

Since there is an 18 month period during which I could not go back to traffic school, I knew I was screwed and called my insurer (whom I have been with continuously since 1979). In the context of addressing other issues and insurance shopping, I asked a couple hypotheticals about rates. I carry the highest liability limits my insurer offers and low deductibles. As a result, on my car, I pay roughly $1,000 per year. I was told that ONE citation makes me ineligible for the "Good Driver Discount" I have enjoyed for years, that my premiums would jump to roughly $1,450/year for just ONE reported citation, and that they would continue to be so affected for 3 years. (WOW, things have sure changed since I last had reason to notice!) Since my motorcycle insurance (multiple bikes) is roughly an equivalent annual premium, I'd guess that 1 citation will probably cost me around $900/year for 3 years!!!!!

And THAT is when I decided that I will fight every citation I receive. I beat the one (Feb. 2005) that caused this evaluation, and got a real BS performance award out in the boonies in late August 2006 that I also beat. As a result, my traffic school option continues to remain unused.

For California performance awards, I have a couple strategies. I won't post them publically, but if you get a performance award in Calif, P.M. me with a phone number and I'll be happy to share my thoughts on what I do and why. It's not guaranteed, but lying or doing anything unethical are absolutely NOT a part of it. Writing a check without contesting the citation is also NOT what I do anymore. I have always been willing to take responsibility for my occasional riding/driving excesses insofar as that involves paying fines to governmental agencies. But since the corporate/political insurance cabal is the big winner from all this, I now refuse to passively bend over for the government to hold me for the insurance industry to sodomize me. Their threshhold for F&$%ing their insureds is just a bit too close to zero infraction tolerance in my estimation, so I have zero tolerance for simple guilty pleas anymore.

Good luck to your (first) friend, Ari.

 

[Ari Rankum]

And THAT is when I decided that I will fight every citation I receive. I beat the one (Feb. 2005) that caused this evaluation, and got a real BS performance award out in the boonies in late August 2006 that I also beat. As a result, my traffic school option continues to remain unused.
Good luck to your (first) friend, Ari.

Yeah. My first friend gets a performance award, like clockwork, every 7 years. That's 4 so far. He's had the officer not show twice. He beat one. He lost one. So, one speeding ticket on the books since he started driving/riding. His insurance is cheap. My first friend appreciates your thoughts.

The second friend became uninsurable after his *FIRST* ticket, because he did the ethical thing and mailed in a check. He's such a nice guy, there was no way I could ask him if he'd mail the check again if he ever got another speeding ticket.

 

[Fred W]

My "ticket" war story:

As a youthful miscreant of about 13-14, a couple of my friends and I were flogging my old 50cc Moto-Morini around the neighborhood. Some neighborhood jerk-off called the fuzz on us. The cruiser arrived just as one of my buddies was returning on the bike and casually pulled into the driveway behind him. Rats. No chance to scram. So my friend gets a ticket (operating with no license) and I get one for allowing him to ride my unregistered vehicle. The crazy thing was this cop hands us the tickets and then leaves. Huh? :blink:

My rider buddy gets a court date in the mail, but I get, nothing... One of my neighbors down the street was on the force, informs me that the officer never signed the ticket he gave me. I go back and check out my "award" and sure enough no John Hancock from "the man". I guess when they realized their error they just deleted the ticket or something to avoid the hassle. Of course the damage was already done as my parents knew about the "incedent" and had already dealt with it accordingly.

Oh, my buddy was of Italian descent (lots of family) and one of his many Uncles was one of the 3 sitting judges in the county, so he got off with a "probation". Tsk, tsk.

From then on, whenever we were illegaly riding our motorcycles on or off road and the cops came to get us we all ran like scared bunnies. See Pavlovian response does work...

 

[Bounce]

I have heard of many folks who tride to get out of a performance award because the LEO recorded the wrong time, got the model of car wrong, got mile marker or even route number wrong and the focus was on the offense not the details.

i can't speak for that but i can speak for a wrong name, a wrong location, and the wrong year for the make/model of car that made absolutely no difference in court.

 

[Bounce]

I went to court, and when the judge asked me how I plead and I told him I WAS speeding, but I did not think I was going THAT fast.He promptly banged his gavel and said "case dismissed".

i've seen just the opposite in every court i've observed. the "i was speeding" was a confession of guilt. they didn't care about "hoe pregnant" the defendant was as they had just admitted to the violation (speeding) and the gavel banged on a guilty with a fine based on if the judge got laid that day.

 

[exskibum]

I went to court, and when the judge asked me how I plead and I told him I WAS speeding, but I did not think I was going THAT fast.He promptly banged his gavel and said "case dismissed".

i've seen just the opposite in every court i've observed. the "i was speeding" was a confession of guilt. they didn't care about "hoe pregnant" the defendant was as they had just admitted to the violation (speeding) and the gavel banged on a guilty with a fine based on if the judge got laid that day.

Yep. I've seen it go both ways, but far more often the way Bounce describes. To the extent it goes the other way, it's been a damned good, respectful explanation of the whys and wherefores, and even then, most of the accommodation by the judge is in reducing the amount of speed in the conviction and the fine imposed. It's still a speeding ticket to an insurance underwriter, though one of those "20+ over" or "over 100mph" type tickets gets extra special attention by insurers and DMV officials, and often also make you ineligible for traffic school. Those are definitely worth reducing even if not much else can be done.

 

[James Burleigh]

.LEO paced the bike at a speed that begins with 8 and ends with 2. .

82?! :glare:

Pussy.

 

[James]

.LEO paced the bike at a speed that begins with 8 and ends with 2. .

82?! :glare:

Pussy.

He wasn't using 5th gear...

 

[Aviator]

All but one person got PBJ, and a mildly reduced fine.

You know I hate when they don't share. . . that's OK I don't like Peanut Butter and Jelly anyways.