I'm tired of my crappy FJR brakes. Will Galfer lines help?

[Fred W]

Suspension discussion moved https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/162683-was-bad-brakes-now-fork-design-split/?p=1221821

And to bring this around on topic, when your front suspension is working well your braking performance improves. Even without expensive stainless steel hydraulic lines.

 

[CA G-Man]

And to bring this around on topic...

Jeez... about time!

 

[Bounce]

Ok. How about we split this to a thread that actually matches the subject line? Anyone?

Suspension (fork) discussion split to: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/162683-was-bad-brakes-now-fork-design-split/

 

[MCRIDER007]

Ok. How about we split this to a thread that actually matches the subject line? Anyone?

Yes, I have a couple of more comments about forks and fork braces.

 

[Rain Dancer]

I have SS lines on all our bikes, but I tend to keep bikes.

An awful lot of you folks must have wrecked a lot of bikes before ABS from what I see on here!

 

[Fred W]

I have SS lines on all our bikes, but I tend to keep bikes.An awful lot of you folks must have wrecked a lot of bikes before ABS from what I see on here!

Huh?

That one is going to need some explanation.

 

[Twigg]

There seems to be a little confusion about what exactly braided steel hoses accomplish.

What they do NOT do is increase the amount of braking force available. That remains the same unless your current hoses behave like balloons.

Modern bike hoses have improved, and their resistance to expanding under the high pressures involved is much better than those bike we were very fond of in the 80s and earlier.

What braided hoses do is simply improve the "feel" of the brakes, and in some cases the amount of pressure needed on the lever. The FJR brakes are pretty good, and any reduction in pressure needed might, for some riders, actually make it worse as they will tend to go full on much easier so unless your touch is light, the brakes will appear to grab.

I jumped all over the idea of replacing the old rubber hoses on the Venture Royale, with braided steel. That and other alterations gave me brakes that at least tried to work.

On the FJR I can lock the front wheel with two fingers (well I can't because the ABS works but you know what I mean), so in terms of feel and/or a reduction in braking effort, neither seems needed. My hoses are 10 years old now and should probably be replaced. When I do I'll buy OEM.

 

[Fred W]

What braided hoses do is simply improve the "feel" of the brakes, and in some cases the amount of pressure needed on the lever. The FJR brakes are pretty good, and any reduction in pressure needed might, for some riders, actually make it worse as they will tend to go full on much easier so unless your touch is light, the brakes will appear to grab.

Well, improved "feel" is, by its own definition, totally subjective. Some think that by reducing the lever travel to produce a given amount of braking power at the wheel, that this defines "improved feel". Being an argumentative old cuss, I would counter that by doing that it actually reduces the amount of "feel" since it becomes somewhat harder to modulate the amount of braking force per unit of lever travel, so the required lever input required becomes more precise. Either way, the difference is small.

Physics says that the amount of actual "effort", meaning how many pounds of force that you need to exert on the brake lever (or pedal) itself will not actually change due to the hose flexibility, just how far you will need to squeeze the lever before you hit that amount of effort.

Unless you change your mechanical advantage with a longer lever, smaller master cylinder, or larger slave cylinder, It will still take the same amount of pounds of force on the brake lever to produce the same pounds of force by the calipers on the brake pads at the other end, regardless of how much the hoses bulge. IOW, bulging the hoses does not require any additional effort at the lever, only additional lever travel.

The way to get increased brake power with less effort (if that is your goal) is by changing the mechanical advantage using one of the methods above, or by increasing either the contact area or coefficient of friction of the brake pads to the rotor(s).

Some might argue that if you have enough brake power to lock the wheel or activate the ABS under best case, dry roads traction, conditions, that anything that makes it any easier to do that with less than full lever / pedal effort will be a reduction of the ability to modulate that power (less feel).

 

[Rain Dancer]

I think a lot of this depends on where FJRMoho is coming from. Some of my friends with sport bikes have amazing brakes, and feel. Radial MC's can make a huge difference in feel also. And as mentioned earlier, weight of the bike he is comparing his FJR to. His bike is, I think, a 2009, so new lines should yield an improvement. Usually after 4-5 years, if I change the lines on a bike to a SS set it is noticeable.

First thing would be to make sure the brake system is operating correctly....then, if it were me, if you don't know the type of pads on it, change them (I like HH, but you may have another preference.) I see no downside to changing the lines. As I said, all our bikes have them...as well as SS clutch clines for hydraulic clutches.

Know anyone near you with another FJR you can ride? See how it compares?

And to Fred W....I was teasing (sort of?) On the forums (and actually in riding classes, riding with friends, etc) I hear "I am so happy I have ABS, saved my hide 5 times this year!" I just think, if you had to activate your ABS 5 times in one year, maybe the person should look at the way they are riding. Or.....as I joked, those riders wrecked a lot of bikes. Now.....who wants to talk suspension?

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I had ABS activate a couple of times and surprise me on my last bike. Once on wet leaves, once on wet concrete. Still have yet to fire it up on my FJR. Hope to keep it that way.

 

[mcatrophy]

I had ABS activate a couple of times and surprise me on my last bike. Once on wet leaves, once on wet concrete. Still have yet to fire it up on my FJR. Hope to keep it that way.

You should "fire it up" occasionally to shift the fluid in the ABS pumps. Stops them seizing later in the bike's life, and proves they are working, so if you ever do really need them they will work.

 

[Wee Willy]

Braided brake lines just lower the compliance of the total brake system. Compliance, or squishyness, is simply the amount of handle you need to pull to get a specific amount of "grab" at the disk. Braided lines make the brakes "feel" more responsive to the levers. They do not improve the amount of braking, just the feel. For driving or riding near the edge (i.e. competition) they are a must because, as everyone knows, the middle pedal wins races and the ability to carefully modulate in that zone is critical.

In application, brakes in proper operating condition range from a 0 condition (no brake force applied) to a 1 condition (maximum force applied at the disk usually locking the wheel or invoking the ABS if it's on the bike). The level of control the rider feels as he/she modulates from 0 to 1 is important if you live anywhere near the edge of maximum brake performance. If you are a performance rider the lines will give you increased confidence - they really do make a difference. If you're an everyday rider they will help but are not an important mod. Go spend that money on seat cushions or grip puppies instead.

Hope this helps.

W2

 

[08FJR4ME]

Nice to here from you WW. Been a while eh!

Dave

 

[Wee Willy]

Indeed it has. Lots has happened in the last few years. New jobs, new homes, new responsibilities. Been awfully busy. Things are settling down a bit now though. Good to be able to visit the board.

Cheers,

W2