Is a radar detector really worth it?

[karstenp]

I am still siting on the fence on this one.... Being from Ontario, Canada where they are illegal, I have spent most of my riding career without a detector. However, 2 years ago I picked up a V1 for use in the United States (except Virginia). My rule is to never ride more than 8mph over the limit on the freeways(speed indicated via GPS which roughly correlates to about 10mph on the speedo) or with the left hand flow when the locals are driving faster, slightly less on secondaries and always the speed limit in town. For me the main purpose of the detector is to alert me of those ridiculous speed traps right on the edge of town where speed limits drop dramatically in a non residential area and in my opinion are strictly a revenue generator for the local sheriff department. However, I find the visual and audible alarms a constant distraction, and given my riding style, probably an unnecessary distraction. That said, when I ride my non rally bike (ST1100) without a radar detector installed, I feel like I am riding naked B)

 

[Geezer]

A cheap detector is worse than having no detector, a detector whose alarms go unnoticed is worse than running with no detector, ignorance of radar principles even while running a V1 is worse than having no detector.

Good point. I would not ride with a detector that I could not hear while riding. I never tried any of the helmet mounted visual alerts, but that may be OK too.

I got a ticket in Kansas once because the plug for my helmet speakers had become disconnected and I never heard the RD go off.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

I was having a debate with a riding buddy the other day as to whether or not a radar detector is worth buying. I mean, does it really save your butt or not. His arguement as to why not to buy one was based on his opinion that it would make you ride faster than normal with a false sense of security. This is based on his idea that you would simply speed more regularly and then get "shot" by radar that was undetectable anyhow due to the fact the the cop would selectively shoot you without warning/detection.

Can I get any stories or opinions on this before I buy?

Appreciate ya!

YES

 

[Fred W]

A top of the line detector like a Valentine One with its alarm audio piped into your helmet combined with an eductaion of how the various forms of basic doppler radar and lidar work and how they are used be LEO's can be very useful in avoiding speeding tickets.

A cheap detector is worse than having no detector

Well, that kind of depends on your definition of a "cheap detector". I have an Escort Passport 8500 (not the "X50") model that I bought a few years ago for ~$100. This was a factory refurb directly sold by Escort via eBay auction. Currently they only have the X50 models available for $200. Either way, compared to the cost of a Valentine V1 these could very well be considered "cheap detectors". Here is a link to the Escort "store" on eBay.

But, IMO, they are just as effective tools as the more expensive detectors at detecting K and Ka band radars. The escorts are actually pretty sensitive and give decent warning of pulsed radar from a distance. Lidar detection also works fine on them, but is kind of a joke since by the time it goes off you've already been targeted. You can only hope that they missed your headlight when they shoot you.

No radar detector will prevent you from getting a ticket if the radar operator knows what he's doing. That requires them being patient and waiting until they have already identified that you are clearly speeding and only then pulsing the radar on. But, at least around here, there are so many drivers that do NOT have RDs, the police have such a target rich environment that they do not have to be at all restrained in their use and still easily fill their ticket quotas. Even the state police will sit at the side of the road with the Ka radar blasting. So, yeah, it has saved me some big tickets.

One other factor in the decision is where you live and intend to ride. The northeast US has perhaps the heaviest density of traffic patrol forces in the country.

There is never a day that I go for a ride that I do not pass a handful of LEOs, either on the highway, or back roads. When we were in Canada for CFR I can't recall having seen one in the entire week. I understand that out West it is similar situation. Plus the highways are marked at higher speed limits.

In the NE everyone speeds on the highways (even cages). But motorcyclists can draw extra attention, even if just traveling at the speed of the rest of traffic. Having an RD can help you avoid that extra attention.

 

[ionbeam]

...A cheap detector is worse than having no detector

Well, that kind of depends on your definition of a "cheap inexpensive detector". I have an Escort Passport 8500 (not the "X50") model that I bought a few years ago for ~$100. This was a factory refurb directly sold by Escort via eBay auction. Currently they only have the X50 models available for $200

There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive. Fred is indeed a Frugal Yankee.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...radar detector is worth buying...does it really save your butt or not.Can I get any stories or opinions on this before I buy?

On very rare occaisions it goes off before I have seen the LEO. It usually confirms thier presence and that they are using their radar or laser.

I heard a bleep in a some remote areas that just didn't make sense. So I backed off...

If nothing else, it tells you where they are and that can't be bad.

Personally, I need AUDIO from the RD.

If nothing else, running an RD will purchase you one hell of an education...

I think you are much more aware of your surroundings not using one which in my opinion adds to you skill level as a MC rider. I have gotten very good at reducing speed in split seconds. I watch my six more than normal. I memorize the locations where they hide most of the time. I can almost instantly pick them off coming in the opposite direction.

Worth it? Save your butt?

Yes & No

If you hear the "beep", immediately go to the posted speed limit (not 'a little over' -- also means you must be aware of the current posted limit).

If you're speeding alone on a rural road, and the LEO is proficient (waits 'till he knows he'll get a good/strong echo) -- you're 'dead meat'. But, didn't you see him approaching (or, following)?

Good audio (in the helmet) is a must -- you're looking elswhere.

Contrary to '08FJR4ME', I've found detector use markedly increases awareness for much of the highway comings-and-goings -- not only/just LEO presence.

Similar to '08FJR4ME', I no longer use a detector on a motorcycle (I've been, mostly, 'trained').

Similar to Pavlov's Dogs, I now notice LEOs approaching (often, before there's a 'beep'); I'm more aware of the current posted speed limit; and, I really enjoy getting the occasional 'distant early warning'.

It is a divided issue: GEICO Ins. (at one time) wouldn't write auto/mc insurance for anyone who admitted to owning an RD. I once argued the benefits of RDs to a few MSF admins with no success -- I think they could only listen to 'obeying the speed limit'.

Also, Judges like 'Radar' tickets -- they accept radar as 'proof'. Not that you can't argue-down your ticket...

I recco Cincinnati Microwave's products.

 

[FJR Flyer]

Interesting discussion. I got stopped a while back for a double hit on my FJ1200. Speed dropped to 45 from 55 (not sure what I was doing.....that's my story). There was a black Tahoe in the left lane rolling (with a freakin' Redskins magnetic helmet on the back door and dark tinted windows), and I was in the right lane. Saw up ahead a trooper on the side of the road and I backed down expeditiously. Next, lights come on in the Tahoe. I quickly pulled over and both the Tahoe and the trooper rolled in behind me. Got off the bike and took the helmet off. Tahoe was the local sheriff with rear facing radar used while on the move. Trooper had laser. Their clocked speeds didn't come close to each other. Plus, I was fairly polite, and not being a squid and having a clean record, they let me off with a warning.

In any case, the RD would have been a big help. I'm considering it.

 

[Fred W]

Interesting discussion. I got stopped a while back for a double hit on my FJ1200.

See, that's what happens when you are riding one of those squidly bikes. If you had been on the bagger they wouldn't have looked twice at ya!!

 

[sporto]

A cheap detector is worse than having no detector, a detector whose alarms go unnoticed is worse than running with no detector, ignorance of radar principles even while running a V1 is worse than having no detector.

Good point. I would not ride with a detector that I could not hear while riding. I never tried any of the helmet mounted visual alerts, but that may be OK too.

I got a ticket in Kansas once because the plug for my helmet speakers had become disconnected and I never heard the RD go off.

I will periodically (every half hour or so) turn my V1 off and then back on while riding and make sure I can clearly hear the startup confirmation beeps in my earbuds.

Fred,

By cheap, I mean inferior quality not price point. Inferior detection circuitry (ie..over the hill, around the corner tests), inconsistant alarming, excessive non-filtered alarming especially on X band, etc... The units that place in the bottom half of the reviews do so for a reason and are the ones to avoid.

If LEO instant-ons using X, K or Ka the vehicle in front of you, your detector better give you a beep or two so that you have time to adjust speed before you pass the trap.

Be extremely alert when approaching from the rear any vehicle that has an external antennae that doesn't look like it belongs in an GM On-Star commercial. Five-O needs to talk to dispatch so they will have antennaes(s) no matter what unmarked vehicle make/model they happen to be sneaking around in.

 

[dj bill]

i take mine off the bike and use it in my car daily and back on the bike when i ride,it has paid for itself over and over and over and over and over (get the hint)and over.

 

[MrM0t0]

i take mine off the bike and use it in my car daily and back on the bike when i ride,it has paid for itself over and over and over and over and over (get the hint)and over.

I am a true believer. I even had my old school 8500 save me from a laser hit after I got a bounce off of the car ahead of me. Made my day.

It's true that in isolated areas, a trained operator is going to get you, but in the relatively congested Northeast, there's plenty of other targets that I can pick up stray signals from. The detection range of the Escort 8500 exceeds the measurement range of the radar guns by at least a factor of 5.

 

[Fred W]

[

Fred,

By cheap, I mean inferior quality not price point. Inferior detection circuitry (ie..over the hill, around the corner tests), inconsistant alarming, excessive non-filtered alarming especially on X band, etc... The units that place in the bottom half of the reviews do so for a reason and are the ones to avoid.

OK, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I just recently tossed out a Whistler brand RD that had been literally collecting dust for over a decade. It was very old and only capable of detecting X band , which makes it completely useless. In fact, I've not heard very good things about Whistler in general...

As far as X band goes, I've disabled it entirely on my Escort (a nice capability) because none of the jurisdictions in the New England area that I ride most frequently use it anymore, and lots and lots of door openers do. I know that in New Joisey they still (allegedly) use X band, (hell, they still insist on having an attendant pump your gas there) but I do not ever (intentionally) venture into New Joisey. Yeah, I suppose that I could just leave it enabled and try to ignore the X band tones, but I prefer not to be bothered at all. That way when I hear any beeping in my ears I know to pay attention NOW!!

On the Escort (which happens to be made by Cincinnati Microwave, the company that CMF recommended) there are two buttons on top of the detector. One sets the brightness of the display and the other switches between City, Highway and Auto modes. Pressing either of these buttons makes a nice audible "beep" which is very useful for occasionally testing the audio channel integrity of the RD without doing a full power cycle. You know, just before you ton up.

I've had more than one time where the audio connections were flaky due to weathering. Unfortunately, most (all?) radar detectors were not intended to be used out in the elements like we subject them to on our bikes. The audio jack gets a little corrosion and before you know it you get an intermittent audio signal. Electrical contact cleaner usually takes care of this in short order.

 

[Dr. Joe]

O my god! Gentleman! Plz! The best, the better, K band, Y band, bla, bla, bla,,, IT DOESN'T MATTER! Get this in your heads boyz.

You may have the most expensive RD out there. If the cop (or "LEO", that's the first time I hear this one...good one) knows what he's doing, and most of them do, you're toast. A radar beam is spread out like a cone and goes out for "infinity", spreading it's patern into la la land until it finds some surface to be absorbed, or reflected on. If the surface is suitable to reflect at the correct angle, it will come back to the radar antenna which will calculate time vs space - distance = speed bla bla bla, you get my drift. Basically, in most occurences, the RD will not capture the radar's (let's call it dust) dust for more than...1/2 a mile to 3/4 of a mile. Considering your moving at bla bla bla feet per seconds, and that the "LEO" is only activating his radar for a 1 second burst, and only at vehicles he has visually targeted as moving beyond and above the speed limit, the chances of avoiding a radar are very minimal.

If the "LEO" leaves his radar on all the time, #1, he doesn't know what he is doing and # 2, he probably is lazy and really wants the ignorant high milers.

I've caught (yes, me too) I don't know how many speeders who had high end RD and told me that it was garanteed to be the best , bla, bla, bla.

On top of that, where I work, they are illegal and we seize a lot of the high end brands. The fine is over $300 for a RD + speeding tick.

Also, I don't know if you are aware but cops now have what we call RDD's (radar detector detectors). It's an instrument independent from a radar unit which will indicate to the officer if the vehicle coming is equiped with a RD. This gives the autority to the officer to stop the vehicle and demand the RD. If the driver refuses, the officer has the authority to search the vehicle for it and charge the driver accordingly.

Bottom line, it doesnt matter if you paid $10 or $500 for your RD. If the guy at the other end knows how to use it, you'll get caught. So better to pay less, if you really want a RD.

And how does one really know they avoided a tick when using a RD? You really can't tell if the "LEO" was using the radar or doing up his notes.

IMO, speeding on a bile is the best and surest way of getting killed...but heh, who am I to judge, I'm only a LEO trying to save a few lives........

 

[HotRodZilla]

With modern radar and a guy working it right, i.e. not lazy and always on, you're a sitting duck if you're not in traffic. If you are in traffic and obviously quicker, he has you. If he read 10 over and knows it was that SUV you just passed because your return is too small to read, he knows you're going faster than the SUV. Not all LEOs are as dumb as we think they are. . . . Right 'Zilla?

Actually, units like Custom Golden Eagles have this cool little button that will separate the vehicles speeds for us. It will show the faster vehicle as opposed to the bigger signal. So if a motorcycle is passing a semi, the semi will have a larger return, but we can make the motorcycles speed show and lock.

Those of us that know what we are doing pop people all the time with detectors in their cars.

 

[FJR Flyer]

Related question: I've been seeing local unmarked cruisers with two boxes mounted on either side the trunk, angled outwards. Assume its a new type of radar, but just wondering.

 

[Fred W]

@ DrJoe

You tell us that you are a radar wielding LEO. Your signature tells us that is in Ontario (must assume that's Canada), where RD's are illegal.

This certainly tilts your opinions about their use. I would have to disagree with almost everything that you say about them, here in the US.

Radar detectors are 100% legal to own and use in 49 of the United States. Only the Commonwealth of Virginia (and the adjacent District of Columbia, which acts like a state, but isn't one) have laws that make use of a Radar Detector illegal. Other states have had similar laws in the past but they were repealed.

If I am in an area where it is legal to use an RD, why would I care whether a LEO runs an RDD and knows I'm using one? He can not pull me over for just running an RD.

You indicate that all LEOs pulse their radar, and only infrequently. That may be true where you are, but I know first hand for a fact, by watching my own RD, that most LEOs in this area are what you call the lazy ones and just leave their radar running when they are on patrol. Especially the townies that patrol the back roads. And even the ones that do pulse theirs do it often enough that you get lots of warning that they are around. Which is really all I want to know from my RD, Is there a radar wielding LEO around anywhere?

Modern RDs are considerably more sensitive than what you believe. I've had my RD warn me of a Ka band radar operator (you learn to always pay attention to those) more than a mile from the squad car. That's some pretty strong "dust" detection (I had to laugh at that description). But even 1/2 mile is typically far enough since they need to visually identify which vehicle is the speeder. Roads around here are not generally flat or straight enough to see the target 1/2 mile away. Especially when the squad cars like to hide themselves along the side of the road so approaching speeders won't see them.

The only thing that I can agree with you on is that: if a LEO really wants to catch you, they can. RD or no RD.

 

[Bounce]

RD's are tools in the electronic warfare game perpetrated on us by the roadside tax collectors; some of which are even partially or totally funded by at least one insurance company (GEICO) to double whammy your wallet with taxation and insurance hikes. Don't use them if you choose not to. Use them with wisdom, understanding, and situational awareness if you choose to. In the mean time, I'll choose to use a RD and a rabbit whenever possible.

 

[Geezer]

If the "LEO" leaves his radar on all the time, #1, he doesn't know what he is doing and # 2, he probably is lazy and really wants the ignorant high milers.

Or, in many cases, where RDs are legal, the LEO is aware that many people who like to go fast use RDs and he also knows that we will slow down if our radar detectors detect his radar. That is the purpose of speed enforcement after all, to get people to slow down, isn't it?

 

[ionbeam]

At one time CT put a cruiser on the roadside at the top of a hill where it was conspicuous from a very long way away, then turned on the radar at full output. They measured improved speed compliance over some distance like 15 miles because the drivers were sensitized to police presence. This was an experiment, not a program though they did have an unmanned cruiser program for quite some time.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

...I'll choose to use a RD and a rabbit whenever possible.

Anything less is just wasting time...

(just short of, but not getting, a ticket)