Ivan's ECU Flash

[Bounce]

Shift at 10K from each gear, report back if you can keep up! Now we are having fun with this. I have absolutely no issues with the power and speed performance of any of the FJR1300 gens. I think they are great bikes for what they were designed for, I just don't think they were designed to rev high or high speeds, of course depending on what high rev's and high speeds mean to each different rider and in comparison to other bike options. And, I have run out a 2007 model and didn't find staying on the seat any difficulty. I'm not a fan boy of any brand or model and the FJR is still my third best bike I have ever owned.

600cc class bikes often rev really high yet sometimes also need a toe-push to get them off the line. In real-world use cases, that's a trade I'd make (lower red line for more lower and mid power) - up to a point. HD's are just being silly.

 

[HotRodZilla]

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Of that group, the FJR is the 2nd fastest, and only marginally. The K1300 will win in a drag race with identical riders. However, the margin is so small that any error or hesitation by the BMW rider would result in that bike losing. The Honda is sort of a pig but only relatively. It is definitely a NOT a pig, but in this group, it is the slowest. The C1400 makes great power, but it is a battleship. What it makes up for in HP, it loses in sheer size and weight. They CANNOT keep up in the corners, and a flat-out acceleration test is neck and neck. The brake fade is also a limiting factor when pushing that bike hard.

For what the FJR is, it is very fast and has plenty of power. Compare it to a cruiser and it is a super-bike. Compare it to a 1000cc or higher crotch rocket, and it might as well not show up. However, I dare most crotch rocket guys to do a single, let alone multiple 1000, or even 500 mile days. Different machine, different purpose.

 

[ReRose]

Mr Fred if I have upset you then please accept my apologies as it is not worth a possible argument. I want one bike that is fairly comfy, quiet and that I can work on. My FJR was a 1 year left over with a fantastic price so since I am on a limited budget after retiring it fit all my needs but just wish it ran like my K1300GT did.

 

[Fred W]

Im not upset. It takes more than a little online debate to get me upset. After all, Ive been married for over 40 years now.

I dont see a huge difference in power between your old K1300 and an FJR in the normal rpm ranges. Yes, the BMW has a little more breathing room up top, but how often does one actually run with throttle WFO and rpm near red line? Ive owned a few BMWs in the past, and while they were nice bikes, they were nothing all that special. OTOH, Ive never owned or ridden a K1300, So I cant speak to how much more powerful it may be.

In any case, denigrating the FJR as not a power house by any means on an FJR forum seems a bit insolent.

 

[hppants]

I'll stick my big nose where it probably doesn't belong. Better judgment hasn't stopped me before....

This debate is one of the things that really shortens my tongue in my conversations with some other riders. Rather than inadvertently start a HEATED debate and have people get all butt hurt, I mostly choose to bite my tongue. And yet, here I am....

The fact is, that most of those people don't have any idea what they are talking about.

There does not exist in this world a liter motorcycle built either yesterday or today that is short in the power department when it comes down to REAL WORLD riding. It's ridiculous, really, to debate and discuss the difference between a bike that runs 11.48 in the quarter mile, and another that runs 11.27, and still another that runs 10.85. On the track, that means the difference between 1st and 10th. On the streets, it doesn't mean a flipping thing. Quite frankly, they are all stupid fast and way more than 99% of their owners will ever be able to use. Unless of course your riding dream is to be posted on Youtube running away from the police, and if that is the case, you don't need an FJR - you need a good lawyer and a **** LOAD of money.

What you want is a bike that will respond nicely to the input you give it for the riding that you like to do. The FJR works for me because I can load it like a Sherpa, set the cruise at 75 (or 85 in some cases) with all of my crap loaded, and the motor is chugging along smoothly at 4000-ish rpm. And then at the twisties, I can unload it, forget about 1st, 4th, and 5th gear, and go have some (relative) fun in the curves with the torque monster. And when I'm on that two lane highway in the remote country side, sitting behind 4 or 5 tractors, trucks, Sunday drivers, little 'ole ladies coming home from church, and/or any combination of the sort, I can downshift 2 gears, light the candle, merge back into my lane at about a buck fifteen, and the resume my ride. And of course, every once in a while, when I'm feeling a bit squid-ish, I can run her up through a couple of gears and get that out of my system.

After you ride for more than 100,000 miles, you start to realize precisely what it is you want in a motorcycle. And I dare state that "straight line performance" doesn't even make the top 5 on that list. I do try to be patient with others, but sometimes it's difficult.

ReRose - this isn't meant to be insulting toward you (or anyone else). You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect you for it. Its just that mature sport touring riders usually don't participate in pissing matches. Some things just speak for themselves.

 

[FJRay]

When you factor in the maintenance cost and time the FJR will travel about 40k farther while the BMW is in the shop. Kinda like the tortoise and the hare.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Horsepower alone isn't a valid comparison of motorbikes. It's the ratio of horsepower to weight. And this topic is already beaten to death, so I'm not going to look up the estimated wet weights of those four.

ALTHOUGH, I can't say if Ivan's got an ECU flash for any of the other three.

 

[russperry]

Horsepower alone isn't a valid comparison of motorbikes. It's the ratio of horsepower to weight. And this topic is already beaten to death, so I'm not even going to look up the estimated wet weights of those four.
ALTHOUGH, I can't say if Ivan's got an ECU flash for any of the other three.

Ivan's website lists that he has ECU flashes for the Concours ('02 to '17) and the ZX14 ('12 to '15) but no mention of the Honda or BMW.

 

[Uncle Hud]

...just trying to lurch us all back towards the topic, and russperry has helped. Yippee!

 

[ReRose]

When you factor in the maintenance cost and time the FJR will travel about 40k farther while the BMW is in the shop. Kinda like the tortoise and the hare.

And that is the reason for me letting the beemer go and getting the FJR - I can still work on it. I retired and so now a fixed income and even tho there was nothing wrong the K1300GT there was very little I could do without special tools. Until one gets to play with the beemer one will not know what it is. It is 635 wet weight with power from idle to 11,000 rpm with cr at 13-1. It will out handle, out brake and out perform the FJR but the downfall of the beemer is when it breaks the dealer will probably have to fix it and parts cost new or used are an arm, leg and some butt. The FJR is not perfect but has a good track record from internet searches plus it is a pretty bike.

The FJR off the floor (minus seat and windshield) does everything I need and enuf power to get me out of trouble Or get me in trouble..............

 

[AdamK]

It will out handle, out brake and out perform the FJR but the downfall of the beemer is when it breaks the dealer will probably have to fix it and parts cost new or used are an arm, leg and some butt.

I have a good riding friend with a K1300. We've ridden together every summer since 2001. One trip the final drive started leaking. Had to be towed to a dealer and many $s later he eventually caught up with us. His bike has had a stalling issue for years. The dealers can't seem to figure it out. After multiple trips in for service, a couple during our rides, and LOTS of $s later it still does it. He is SO frustrated with his bike. If he wasn't nearing the end of his riding years he'd be shopping for a new bike. He can easily afford all of the service cost, but these days he gets more satisfaction driving his Vette in the twisties.

This summer a different buddy with a K1300 joined us for a 3,300 mile ride. A few days in he started complaining he couldn't find neutral. After cleaning the shifting linkages we happened to check his oil level. Down nearly a quart. Filled it up and neutral was back. After the next 350 mile day he checked the oil and it was nearly a 1/2 quart low. He called his BMW dealer and they told him that was within spec. What!? He was asking us how much oil our FJRs burned. Uh, none... The BMWs are nice, but not that nice. No thanks....

 

[ReRose]

I just test road a 2009 K1300S for a friend today and had some fun again until I got lost in St Louis City and had to pull a cop over for directions.

The FJR has everything I need right now and as I get older I need less so it will be with me for awhile.

If I have a need for speed I still my 2008 ZX14 !!!

 

[hppants]

You have a ZX-14 to go with your FJR?

You sir have no problems what so ever.

 

[Eagle Six]

I have 2 ZX14's both have been flashed. The 2006 ZX14 just the ECU flash, as I have a PCIII on that bike to map the fuel for the 4:1 Yosh carbon exhaust. The 2012 ZX14r the ECU was flashed and included a fuel map for the Two Brothers carbon slip-on's. Both flashes remove the upper limiters, increase the red line by 500 rpm, open the secondary flies earlier, smooth out the throttle, and some other stuff. The throttle on the ZX14's is already smooth from the factory, so the improvement from the flash on this bike is minor. However, if there was a reasonable cost flash available when I had the 2007 FJR, it would have been on my list, as the FJR throttle can benefit from some tuning. I think it is great that Ivan has taken on the FJR and would think his reflash be at the top of almost every FJR owners list of modifications.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I have 2 ZX14's both have been flashed. The 2006 ZX14 just the ECU flash, as I have a PCIII on that bike to map the fuel for the 4:1 Yosh carbon exhaust. The 2012 ZX14r the ECU was flashed and included a fuel map for the Two Brothers carbon slip-on's. Both flashes remove the upper limiters, increase the red line by 500 rpm, open the secondary flies earlier, smooth out the throttle, and some other stuff. The throttle on the ZX14's is already smooth from the factory, so the improvement from the flash on this bike is minor. However, if there was a reasonable cost flash available when I had the 2007 FJR, it would have been on my list, as the FJR throttle can benefit from some tuning. I think it is great that Ivan has taken on the FJR and would think his reflash be at the top of almost every FJR owners list of modifications.

And there you have it, the rev limitter can be removed.

Dave

 

[RossKean]

I have 2 ZX14's both have been flashed. The 2006 ZX14 just the ECU flash, as I have a PCIII on that bike to map the fuel for the 4:1 Yosh carbon exhaust. The 2012 ZX14r the ECU was flashed and included a fuel map for the Two Brothers carbon slip-on's. Both flashes remove the upper limiters, increase the red line by 500 rpm, open the secondary flies earlier, smooth out the throttle, and some other stuff. The throttle on the ZX14's is already smooth from the factory, so the improvement from the flash on this bike is minor. However, if there was a reasonable cost flash available when I had the 2007 FJR, it would have been on my list, as the FJR throttle can benefit from some tuning. I think it is great that Ivan has taken on the FJR and would think his reflash be at the top of almost every FJR owners list of modifications.

And there you have it, the rev limitter can be removed.

Dave

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. The FJR stops making more power after about 8000 RPM anyway. Even if it didn't grenade the engine, there is no benefit for an unmodified FJR engine.

 

[Eagle Six]

I have 2 ZX14's both have been flashed. The 2006 ZX14 just the ECU flash, as I have a PCIII on that bike to map the fuel for the 4:1 Yosh carbon exhaust. The 2012 ZX14r the ECU was flashed and included a fuel map for the Two Brothers carbon slip-on's. Both flashes remove the upper limiters, increase the red line by 500 rpm, open the secondary flies earlier, smooth out the throttle, and some other stuff. The throttle on the ZX14's is already smooth from the factory, so the improvement from the flash on this bike is minor. However, if there was a reasonable cost flash available when I had the 2007 FJR, it would have been on my list, as the FJR throttle can benefit from some tuning. I think it is great that Ivan has taken on the FJR and would think his reflash be at the top of almost every FJR owners list of modifications.

And there you have it, the rev limitter can be removed.

Dave

There is a comma between those two. The upper limiter in the 06' ZX14 for example was 186 mph. Removing this means the engine power would not be cut off when reaching that speed. In stock form, removing this limiter, it will not reach a much higher speed, but for those who make other speed (HP) modifications the limiter would not limit their modifications through electronics. This is a necessity for those who drag race, or 1/2 mile-1 mile-top speed and modify the intakes, exhaust, and internal modifications. The red line increase is minor, but that amount the ZX14 engine should hold without trashing itself to death under repeated use. So the red line was not removed, just moved a bit. Without additional modifications to the exhaust, intake and internals, the engine simply runs out of steam during those last high rpm's.

Same with the FJR engine, without some pricey engine modifications, increasing the red line another 500 rpm is on the back side of the power curve and there is nothing to gain, it is just a loss. The FJR engine is tuned to take advantage of it's mid range power and is very good at it. It most likely would do an additional 500 rpm over the factory red line (the factory feeds in a margin), but the FJR's are not being used to drag race, so there isn't any advantage to increasing the red line for the vast number of users.

And BTW, there has been a lot of race testing with the ZX14 (and also BUSA, Suk Gxxr and Kaw 1000/1200) leading up to Guhls, Ivan and Schnitz feeling safe to raising the rev limit another 500 rpm.

 

[08FJR4ME]

My intent was to just get an answer whether it could be done or not. My question has been answered. Whether it is wise to do it was not asked. That can be left up to the owner of the bike who is having the work done.

Dave

 

[Eagle Six]

I was thinking on the way home today can the flash up the rev limiter? Let's say to 10K? What's the use having those red numbers if you can't use them.

OK, your question can it be done was followed by a qualifier of 10K, and then "What's the use having those red numbers if you can't use them". If you are anywhere near sea level, let you FJR warm up and then in neutral, twist the throttle full open and hold it to let the engine rev as high as it will go. Do this a few time repeatedly. Go out on the road get up to about 140-150 mph, blip the throttle down shift into 2nd, then full open throttle. Most likely you can get it to red line. Red line limit isn't a hard stop, it's the amount of rpm that is recommended to be safe for the engine to rev repeatedly without causing damage to the engine. How much above red line your engine will actually do at any given time depends on a lot of variables. I have rev'd my ZX14's several times above red line and it hasn't caused detectable damage, however it isn't something I like to do with intent and it has never been an advantage to power or speed, just the opposite. And I have never reached above red line in 6th gear full out. I'm glad you have your answer.

 

[JREW]

JREW: I've been wondering about the 89. Two days ago the 89 was a full $1.00 more than the 87. I know they are small tanks, but still a full fill up would be an extra $5.00. I wonder if the flash would run any worse on 87?

John, I've been asked by a couple other interested parties what a tank of 87 would run like. In previous discussions with Ivan he indicated that there's the potential for detonation below 3000 rpm at larger throttle openings and heavier loads. Keep in mind this is directly related to more advanced timing and changes in the timing table(s). Thus, his recommendation for 89.

I've been running 89 since the first iteration of the flash. There's been no hint of pinging anywhere in the rev range although I haven't been spending a lot of time below 3000 rpm. This thing is so smooth that it's fun to just let it rip now. BTW...the latest version I received "seems" even smoother and more responsive in "Ivan" mode. More to follow...

In the interest of science, next tank I'll fill up with 87 and see what happens!

~G

George,

Have you had a chance to run some 87 with the flash. I'm interested in your results.

John