Killed my Engine

[Charlie Hoss]

Man, what an ordeal!! I can understand your frustration.

Had a '93 4-Runner, ex wife blew up the engine. Diagnosing the damage cost so much that I almost had to let them do a rebuild rather than go for a used engine. It just kept getting worse as they dug deeper. Ended up costing me $4800 for the engine so that I could sell it for $6000.

Thanks for the update and best of luck as work progresses. We'll all be watching this thread with interest.

 

[Craiger]

ionbeam I am not sure if this is what your looking for but I came accross this tonight and signed-up after lurking here for several weeks. I know nothing about this motor or the seller just passing it along to you..

E-bay motors

Item #270193283446

 

[Kevin Daly]

Jesus Alan!

Next time anyone has this happen, before going through this nightmare PLEASE, just roll the bike behind your wifes car, call her on the phone and tell her your in the hospital come quick

 

[trimmantom]

Holy crap man,I can't beleive the shit you've gone through.

I thought going through the tick repair on my 04 was an ordeal.

Have your dealer put that thing back together and find a deep lake to dump that sucker in and report it stolen and collect insurance.

Shit man I don't really mean that but I'm frustrated for you after having read this.

Good luck but sounds like your frustrations are not over. At least your dealer seems to be halfass competent.

 

[Rondo777]

Holy crap man,I can't beleive the shit you've gone through.I thought going through the tick repair on my 04 was an ordeal.

Have your dealer put that thing back together and find a deep lake to dump that sucker in and report it stolen and collect insurance.

Shit man I don't really mean that but I'm frustrated for you after having read this.

Good luck but sounds like your frustrations are not over. At least your dealer seems to be halfass competent.

I was going to suggest having it "accidently" falling off the trailer on the way home from the dealer!

 

[ionbeam]

Well, ya know, some of this could have gone better

I want to thank everyone for your interest, but most of all I want to send a deep thanks to those that have PMed me with really generous and kind offers of bike loans, outright offers of free labor and shop time as well as resources that they had located. You guys are great!

I hope to return a little to the collective by letting you know not to ignore noises in the cam area, some suggestions about finding replacement engines, dealer dealings and info on a near complete engine rebuild. Pixs and details are coming, like everything else it's gonna take some time.

Craiger, thanks for the heads-up on ebay! There are now two engines on ebay that would have been worth exploring but I have committed to having my engine repaired. It might be done around xmas. Won't be much left of the riding season by then (there is already persistent snow on the ground as well as salt on the roads).

We seem to have several sub groups here, we've got the Bambi Bashers club, the Crash Club and now I'm thinking of starting the Job Group (Biblical reference). It has taken dcarver forever to get his bike back, there has been some lengthy tick fixes, eternal waits for ignition switches, the wait for the Gen II altitude surging fix, etc. It is amazing how many of us have gone without use of our bikes for months. By the time I get my bike back I will be a 'born again virgin biker'.

There have been occasions where I've wanted to rip people for the way things were progressing but (take a deep breath) ya gotta give people a chance. Screaming, spittle spewing, threatening, bullying customers don't get the best service. If something in this very expensive process goes wrong, and it results in court action there is a judicial expectation that you will have given the accused an honest chance to make things right. How ever bad it hurts :lol:

 

[BkrK12]

Well, ya know, some of this could have gone better
I want to thank everyone for your interest, but most of all I want to send a deep thanks to those that have PMed me with really generous and kind offers of bike loans, outright offers of free labor and shop time as well as resources that they had located. You guys are great!

I hope to return a little to the collective by letting you know not to ignore noises in the cam area, some suggestions about finding replacement engines, dealer dealings and info on a near complete engine rebuild. Pixs and details are coming, like everything else it's gonna take some time.

Craiger, thanks for the heads-up on ebay! There are now two engines on ebay that would have been worth exploring but I have committed to having my engine repaired. It might be done around xmas. Won't be much left of the riding season by then (there is already persistent snow on the ground as well as salt on the roads).

We seem to have several sub groups here, we've got the Bambi Bashers club, the Crash Club and now I'm thinking of starting the Job Group (Biblical reference). It has taken dcarver forever to get his bike back, there has been some lengthy tick fixes, eternal waits for ignition switches, the wait for the Gen II altitude surging fix, etc. It is amazing how many of us have gone without use of our bikes for months. By the time I get my bike back I will be a 'born again virgin biker'.

There have been occasions where I've wanted to rip people for the way things were progressing but (take a deep breath) ya gotta give people a chance. Screaming, spittle spewing, threatening, bullying customers don't get the best service. If something in this very expensive process goes wrong, and it results in court action there is a judicial expectation that you will have given the accused an honest chance to make things right. How ever bad it hurts :lol:

Hi Alan, How's your bike repair going?

 

[exskibum]

There have been occasions where I've wanted to rip people for the way things were progressing but (take a deep breath) ya gotta give people a chance. Screaming, spittle spewing, threatening, bullying customers don't get the best service. If something in this very expensive process goes wrong, and it results in court action there is a judicial expectation that you will have given the accused an honest chance to make things right. How ever bad it hurts

Your conclusions are obviously borne of a level head and common sense, but you would not believe how many times I have had to explain that to some people. Another way of saying that the first rule of successful litigation is "always appear to be the reasonable party." Right now, I have one loose cannon who periodically calls me on different disputes, wanting to hire me. One of the main reasons I am reluctant to handle any of them is his piss poor history with that rule.

Continuing to follow your saga, and fully appreciative of the "Job" reference. Looking forward to hearing that the saga has ended successfully.

 

[JoshHefnerX]

Updates???

 

[ionbeam]

The glacier inches forward. It looks like I will indeed have a motorcycle to ride when spring finally arrives in NH, usually on the second or third week of May

Winter came early and hard with record snow fall in December so I let the dealer work his sled business before going back to bikes and ATVs again. I also let him do two warranty jobs in front of my job, but with reason. The dealer had a new, low mile R1 with the very same cylinder head damage as mine and a new, low mile C14 with the same cylinder head damage as mine. I figure what the heck, let them get some fresh practice and experience before they move on to my bike.

The engine tear-down is complete. The crank with the cam chain sprocket, the rods and plane bearings are good to go. Since we were already there, we sorted through the middle gear and trans, both have a clean bill of health. The cylinder head and every last component that goes into and on it are being replaced. Every thing cam chain related except for the crank is being replaced. The rings are being replaced too **

Today we got confirmation that all parts are on the way with no backorders! Hot damn! Parts are due next Tuesday and the shop will start work immediately.

==========

I've finally closed out the last chapter about purchasing a used engine. After the dust, complaints and money issues were settled I will say that Leon, while not a great initiator of phone calls, does turn out to be a good guy and I would recommend him as a salvage yard resource. When things turned to shit got difficult, everything he did was based on trying to make things right for me and he busted balls with the other salvage yards to get things done.

Leon

South Park Cycle, LLC.

1498 College St., Beaumont, Tx.

888-832-9253 or 888-952-9253

As a result of my dealings with Leon, South Park Cycle and any of the other salvage yards they network with will be required to clearly define what a 'complete' engine actually comes with; run a VIN search to confirm the year of the engine and determine if it is a CA model (doesn't matter to our FJRs); and most importantly all salvage yards supplying an engine through South Park will be required to do a cylinder leak-down test and report the results to the buyer.

==========

Last week I watched a couple of fine new FJR videos. Youse guys are killing me. I didn't realize how bad my motorcycle withdrawal had become. As my brother-in-law from the UK says, "THIS IS BLOODY 'ORIBLE." I've taken up wearing headphones and main-lining FJR videos late into the night.

==========

** I've got a puzzle here. When the cylinder head came off, the mechanic whistled and said that I shouldn't have let my motorcycle sit for a year or two before bringing it in for repair. [SIZE=12pt]WTF?!?![/SIZE] My poor bikie had just been taken off the road a few weeks ago. When we looked at the pistons and the bottom of the cylinder head it was massively rusted. There was zero sign of coolant, just rust, rust, rust. During the final tear down it was clear that the rings were so rusted and frozen into the pistons that they had to go. My motorcycle was in my garage when the BIG BANG happened and stayed in my garage (to the dismay of my car) until it went for repair. It was humid for a couple of weeks, but dang, it looked worse than I would have expected if I had filled the cylinders with sea water. Any ideas what happened to cause all the rust? I can assure you that my engine had experienced regular elevated RPMs and higher engine loads daily. Our local gas stations have finally gotten rid of MBTE and replaced it with 10% ethanol which does pick up water. ????

 

[Nice Rumble]

Glad you can see the light at the end of the tunnel Alan. Spring will be here and you will have an FJR again.

 

[Fred W]

** I've got a puzzle here. When the cylinder head came off, the mechanic whistled and said that I shouldn't have let my motorcycle sit for a year or two before bringing it in for repair. [SIZE=12pt]WTF?!?![/SIZE] My poor bikie had just been taken off the road a few weeks ago. When we looked at the pistons and the bottom of the cylinder head it was massively rusted. There was zero sign of coolant, just rust, rust, rust. During the final tear down it was clear that the rings were so rusted and frozen into the pistons that they had to go. My motorcycle was in my garage when the BIG BANG happened and stayed in my garage (to the dismay of my car) until it went for repair. It was humid for a couple of weeks, but dang, it looked worse than I would have expected if I had filled the cylinders with sea water. Any ideas what happened to cause all the rust? I can assure you that my engine had experienced regular elevated RPMs and higher engine loads daily. Our local gas stations have finally gotten rid of MBTE and replaced it with 10% ethanol which does pick up water. ????

I thought that both the pistons and the cylinder head are made from aluminum alloy. How did these parts rust? Knowing how technically astute you are I feel ashamed, but compelled to ask nonetheless: Are you 100% certain that what you saw was rust and not some other form of deposition?

I could see the rings maybe rusting, but the other parts you mentioned shouldn't have.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I've got a puzzle here. When the cylinder head came off, the mechanic whistled and said that I shouldn't have let my motorcycle sit for a year or two before bringing it in for repair. ... When we looked at the pistons and the bottom of the cylinder head it was massively rusted. Any ideas what happened to cause all the rust?

First, glad to hear the repair is moving along.... Next, congratulations on resolving all the 'issues'.

Now, to the rust -- I don't know. But, I've dis-assembled and repaired many high-mile engines, and what you're describing is normally found in engines that have sat/parked for a considerable length of time -- just like the mechanic said. The alu pistons, of course, don't have rust -- only the 'ferrous' parts.

At the risk of starting an 'oil-thread' -- what oil were you using? I ask this because: I have witnessed, in years past, snowmobile engines catastrophically rusted from use of very fancy/expensive synthetic oils (and parked/stored). Please (everyone) don't think I'm damning synthetics -- it's just what 'ionbeam's seen, I've seen -- and that's what was attributed to be the cause.

Was it all the valves, all the rings?

Well, whatever the answer -- good luck in progressing thru this.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Alan,

Great to hear about your good news! Best part of this it is happening during the winter time. As far as your piston rust goes, when I saw mine with the head off with 43k miles...no rust in sight. No ideas from my end to help you there.

Congrats on the parts in stock locally... it should be soon.

Be well. (& patient)

 

[bluejag]

Glad to hear that you are finally on the road to being, on the road. Hope the last chapter goes smooth.

Riddle me this, was the rust truly rust or a external entry of moist, damp garage air that entered thru valve's that were every way but closed in both direction's ??

 

[snikr]

Alan......glad to see the END is in sight. Looking forward to riding with you and Helen again this year.

Tom

 

[ionbeam]

** I've got a puzzle here. When the cylinder head came off, the mechanic whistled and said that I shouldn't have let my motorcycle sit for a year or two before bringing it in for repair....When we looked at the pistons and the bottom of the cylinder head it was massively rusted. There was zero sign of coolant, just rust, rust, rust....Any ideas what happened to cause all the rust?...

I thought that both the pistons and the cylinder head are made from aluminum alloy. How did these parts rust? Knowing how technically astute you are I feel ashamed, but compelled to ask nonetheless: Are you 100% certain that what you saw was rust and not some other form of deposition?...I could see the rings maybe rusting, but the other parts you mentioned shouldn't have.

Here ya go Fred -- of course you are correct -- about the 'rust'! :lol: I'm guilty of casual reporting. When Ferrous (iron based) material oxidizes you see the ubiquitous redish-brown rust color. When other materials such as Aluminum oxidizes you see a white 'rust', simply referred to as oxidation or corrosion. When we looked into the engine we saw tan-redish-brown swirling fur covering everything but the cylinder walls. Our error was calling this fur 'rust', that is what it looked like, and in the end it is indeed a form oxidation/corrosion like rust. The color of the oxidation may be caused by evaporating fuel due to a very rich cold start FI shot. Let's rephrase my question substituting 'heavy oxidation with tan-red-brown staining' for the word rust.

I've got a puzzle here. When the cylinder head came off, the mechanic whistled and said that I shouldn't have let my motorcycle sit for a year or two before bringing it in for repair. ... When we looked at the pistons and the bottom of the cylinder head it was massively rusted. Any ideas what happened to cause all the rust?

Now, to the rust -- I don't know...I've...repaired many high-mile engines, and what you're describing is normally found in engines that have sat/parked for a considerable length of time -- just like the mechanic said. The alu pistons, of course, don't have rust -- only the 'ferrous' parts...At the risk of starting an 'oil-thread' -- what oil were you using? I ask this because: I have witnessed, in years past, snowmobile engines catastrophically rusted from use of very fancy/expensive synthetic oils (and parked/stored)....Was it all the valves, all the rings?

My oil has always been changed more frequently than specified in the owners manual, using an oil that Yamaha would approve of with no questions asked. Nothing exotic was ever used and no additives were added. On older engines, especially iron based engines, I have fogged the cylinders with oil if they were going to sit for extended lengths of time but never did this to Feejer.

...Riddle me this, was the rust truly rust or a external entry of moist, damp garage air that entered thru valve's that were every way but closed in both direction's ??

The valves were hammered, bent, contorted and twisted in a way that left 12 of the 16 valves completely open. The remaining four valves were just mostly open. There was an even 0 psi of compression in all four cylinders :dribble: allowing air to flow through the engine basically unimpeded.

 

[ionbeam]

Latest installment in the endless process of getting Ionbeam's bike ready for 2008.

Joe Btfsplk, so unlucky that his last name doesn’t even have any vowels. I’m thinking of changing my name.

At the end of February we got my bike back together, and finally had a day where we could actually try to ride it. It started right up, idled smoothly, didn’t leak or smoke. Jake rode roughly ¼ mile in 20° weather and declared it trouble free. At this point most of the plastic is off the bike and four years worth of farkle wire, cables and gizmos were hanging out everywhere, it looked like an explosion in a telephone switch room. The weather continued to suck, and suck and suck. Finally around mid March there was a day without snow, ice, salt or sand so I showed up to ride it home. It fired right up again but the exhaust tone sounded horrible; the handlebars vibrated worse than a Harley and when the revs came up the mirrors vibrated so bad they were useless. Since Jake wasn’t in that day I grabbed the owner and worked him over. The owner says to ride it until it gets broken in, then bring it back and he will make it right -- “better than new”. My wife was pissed off and that is a Bad Thing™. While I geared up, my wife made sure that the owner knew that OUR bike would be back and it WOULD BE FIXED, and fixed in a timely fashion. My wife terrorized him by telling him that he wouldn’t be dealing with me any more because I’m soft, the next time his phone rings it will be her and his life is going to suck until her ride runs well again.

I rode it ~30 miles home without the plastic, with wires hanging out every place, but without drama or incident. It does run fine with no glitches or bad mechanical sounds. The surging I’ve always complained about seems to be totally gone. The exhaust note sucks, sounds like the exhaust valves are opening too soon (the dealer says not to worry). The torque seems to be there but the engine feels really tight and seems like it is missing at least 15 hp. In addition to the whole new cylinder head, it also got a new set of rings which may contribute to the tight feeling. Even my Norton on its worst day couldn’t come close the vibrations I’ve got now. Take one of those vibrating beds, plug it into 480 volt, three phase AC power, pour in $100 in change and my paint mixer FJR will still out buzz it.

Then it snowed. And snowed. And snowed. Finally when the weather started to improve we both came down with the flu, the worst we have ever had. After two weeks of that it evolved into pneumonia which we are just getting over.

Last weekend I managed to cough and wrench & cough and wrench for a while. I’ve gone back through the engine and checked everything but the cam timing. Compression is ok; everything else seems to check out ok. I’ve installed some more TB strips, I’m converting my evolution of farkles into a planned project and really hope to have it all back together this coming weekend.

Along the way I’ve discovered that almost none of the plastic attachment hardware is correct and a whole lot of hardware is missing -- GRRRRR!!!!

On the other hand, it has been so long since I’ve ridden I’m willing to try anything. My wife has started running around making vroom, vroom noises and putting together ride plans. She says that she EXPECTS her first ride of this season this weekend.

 

[Nice Rumble]

Great news Alan. I'm rooting for you! Hope it all works out and it is in fact "better than new".

 

[twowheelnut]

Suggestion: Back-up plan 'B' required for spousal expectation.

Good luck and I hope plan 'A' works.