Leaning...

[RossKean]

I've gone down the FortNine video rabbit hole again...

 

[KevinLewis]

I've generally figured out how to ride with counter lean. I just ride on soil and that is how I have gained all along. In any case, counter lean isn't just a final desperate attempt to save yourself on the track yet it has saved me at times on the single track. Counter lean, impartial, or typical incline there is generally a circumstance for itself and I'm thankful for this video since it explained the method of inclining.

 

[Bounce]

I used to counter lean a lot too until my Wing started hitting hard bits and finally ended lifting the rear tire off the ground in a fast, decreasing-radius right turn when it picked it up and set it down about a foot to the left.

I quickly learned to get my shoulder into the corner and lean INTO it instead of counter leaning. CL is a slow-speed (and/or dirt) tactic that fails at faster speeds because it closes the cornering clearance too much.

 

[RossKean]

I used to counter lean a lot too until my Wing started hitting hard bits and finally ended lifting the rear tire off the ground in a fast, decreasing-radius right turn when it picked it up and set it down about a foot to the left.

I quickly learned to get my shoulder into the corner and lean INTO it instead of counter leaning. CL is a slow-speed tactic that fails at faster speeds because it closes the cornering clearance too much.

I agree. Leaning into the turn is required if the object is to reduce overall bike lean to keep the bike from rubbing the pavement. Otherwise, the Moto GP guys would look pretty funny... May also improve cornering traction if the bike is more upright - would have to look at tire contact patch and implications of centripetal forces.

Interesting points in the video but I agree with his conclusions when it comes to normal lower-speed maneuvering - city streets and trails.

 

[Bounce]

I found that, as I realized my mistakes and started improving that part of my riding, I could carry most speed through a corner with more control BECAUSE the bike was more upright so less of the traction pie had to go to "lean angle traction" (whatever that centripetal force to the outside of a corner is).

BUT I don't usually dirt any more and only did a little on loaner bikes when younger. And CL is certainly best suited for dirt and slow-speed like GWRRA slow-speed competitions and MSF parking lot drills.

 

[Old Guy]

I counterlean a lot on tight, crooked roads at slower speeds. It's just easier, for me, to sit more upright and let the bike fall away from me. I went for years thinking I was pushing the bar down into the lean when, in fact, I was pushing it down and forward to countersteer.

As I pick up speed on faster sweepers and more open corners I'll start leaning with the bike and may get to the point I'm leaning in if I start pushing hard enough to drag parts.

 

[CollingsBob]

I’ve been riding for slightly over 50 years. Last year I took a 3 day course at the FAST school at Shannonville. Day 1 was humbling. By the afternoon of Day 2 my lap times were mid-pack, not bad for a 67 yr old, kinda out of shape old guy dicing it up with the over-eager 20 yr olds.
I highly recommend this course if you want to learn proper body positioning, braking technique and most importantly the correct line through a corner..

https://www.fastridingschool.com/

 

[Fred W]

Lap times on a track <> street riding.

 

[super rat]

I try to go to the track a few days a year, try to get out of the beginner group with that counter lean stuff, aint happening.

 

[Bounce]

Lap times on a track <> street riding.

But the skills learned are easily adapted (within the regular constraints of public roads).

 

[JQL]

Road riding and track riding are not the same. That's why there's a difference.

 

[SilverStreak]

I've generally figured out how to ride with counter lean. I just ride on soil and that is how I have gained all along. In any case, counter lean isn't just a final desperate attempt to save yourself on the track yet it has saved me at times on the single track. Counter lean, impartial, or typical incline there is generally a circumstance for itself and I'm thankful for this video since it explained the method of inclining.

Buddy, you have the wrong bike to figure out and learn how to road ride the fast corners. Put the heavy, long wheelbase, high CG FJR away and get a R3 or an Ninja 400. Learn to hang off in the canyons like a Randy Mamlola and forget about counterleaning on the street. Otherwise you will eventually panic and stuff the FJR into the pavement when hard parts lever up the back wheel. It happens real fast and counterleaning makes it much it more likely.

 

[Ray]

My first track day was on the FJR 15 years ago. Right after that got an SV650 and I’m now in my 14th year of racing at 66 years old plus do some Instruction. Few years ago had a chance to take FJR back to the track - what a difference! Yes it’s heavy but that acceleration out of the corners vs my 72 hp SV was awesome.

Few things the racing has helped me on the street is using body positioning and INTENTIONAL counter steering to get the bike to turn in faster. I can go thru comers with plenty of ground clearance faster than others who are dragging hard parts. Trail braking and threshold braking when needed helps give me cushion if something unexpected happens. Unlike the track I approach ever blind corner at 60-70% of my capabilities assuming there may be gravel or a car etc in my way. Once I can see thru the corner then I let it rip

 

[Fred W]

Racing is all good.

I wouldn’t choose a nearly 700 lb mega sport touring pig rig for my ride, but we all do crazy things. I happen to know some people that take stupidly fat 500 lb. ADV bikes down slippery, snotty trails, just to see if they can get through (guilty!). And sometimes we fail, somewhat catastrophically.

My problem is with the people that think that, what you do on a track directly translates to what you can do on the street. Every time we have a get-together, there is always someone that over-cooks it, and usually with a bad result. Why even do that? Is the stroke to your ego that important that you are willing to trash your bike.

Now other riders have differing levels of risk tolerance. I’ll be the first to admit that I ride a whole ****-ton faster than I used to. But then there are a lot of times that the little voice in my brain tells me to back-off. Take it easy. Ride again tomorrow.

 

[Ray]

The SKILLS you learn on the track can correlate to the street and give you a large safety margin in braking, cornering, correct lines thru a corner and fast reactions. The problem is the street is full of unknowns- gravel, cars, blind unknown corners, dogs etc. I can tell an unsafe rider the first blind corner we come To because they usually blow it going in too fast. Being an idiot, taking unnecessary chances and showing off has nothing to do with the skills you learn racing.

 

[JQL]

Off-road training and practice is also very good for "the street" as the street is full of surprises. Oil, diesel, road-kill, Gravel, Pedestrians etc. Off-road training helps you learn to manoeuvre to your advantage on "interesting" surfaces.

Which reminds me, I haven't done any real off-road for a few years so I better get a course booked.

 

[88USAJag]

Hi guys. Good conversation.

Been riding since 82. Owned an fir since 07. Been doing track days on an sv 1000 s since 07.

I could ride before but the skills you learn at a good riding school transfer to the road 100%.

Knowing what you and your bike can and sometimes can’t do is confidence building. The wisdom to know that dragging a knee through a blind uphill right handed in a school zone comes with age, incarceration, or injury.

Can’t fix stupid but you can look good doing it.

 

[Bounce]

Hi guys. Good conversation.

Been riding since 82. Owned an fir since 07. Been doing track days on an sv 1000 s since 07.

I could ride before but the skills you learn at a good riding school transfer to the road 100%.

Knowing what you and your bike can and sometimes can’t do is confidence building. The wisdom to know that dragging a knee through a blind uphill right handed in a school zone comes with age, incarceration, or injury.

Can’t fix stupid but you can look good doing it.

Does the track being cleaned of debris and obstacles mean it's more like 95% because no one does that for public roads?

 

[KevinLewis]

Buddy, you have the wrong bike to figure out and learn how to road ride the fast corners. Put the heavy, long wheelbase, high CG FJR away and get a R3 or an Ninja 400. Learn to hang off in the canyons like a Randy Mamlola and forget about counterleaning on the street. Otherwise you will eventually panic and stuff the FJR into the pavement when hard parts lever up the back wheel. It happens real fast and counterleaning makes it much it more likely.

Thank you for the info. I got your point and it seems your point is valid

 

[Old Guy]

Does the track being cleaned of debris and obstacles mean it's more like 95% because no one does that for public roads?

I endurance raced a couple of seasons a long, long time ago, and yes, just having the confidence that I could roll into a corner on the track confidently knowing there was nothing in the road, nothing coming from the other direction, yada, yada, made a huge difference. Add that to the fact that I'd made the same corners from the same direction over and over again made hitting the marks much easier.

I often don't even use the same lines on the road that I'd have used in that corner if it'd been on a track. On public roads, I'll go into blind corners wide and slower just to get a good look before committing.

Nonetheless, I quickly became the fastest guy in our little riding group simply because the days at the track gave me more confidence in my abilities. I didn't go as fast on public roads, but I still went a heck of a lot faster than before the track experience.