My Turn

[rPGoatBoy]

Has anyone intentionally left out that wire clip? Did it effect your "kerchunk" factor?

Mine's been out since the beginning of '12. Zero difference in clutch operation or the 1st gear "kerchunk".

 

[rPGoatBoy]

FWIW, the YCC-S bikes' clutches do not have the wire, and a slightly different back ring. With the clip, the ring is marked "OUT SIDE", without the clip the ring is marked with a white dot.
There may be a difference in their design (why else would they be marked differently?) that could change things if the clip was simply left out.

If the only reason for the clip was simply as an assembly aid, why don't the YCC-S bikes have it?

I'm not arguing with anyone about this, simply throwing in the thought that there may be unwanted consequences leaving the clip out.

I'll be damned, I just looked at the clutch fiche for the '09 A and AE models, and the clutch hub, spacer, belleville spring (3,4,& 5) are different part numbers between the models, and you're right, the AE has no wire. Still don't know the purpose of the wire, but now I'm guessing the belleville spring was "tuned" to whatever consistent engagement rate the AE clutch servo operates at. The A model's engagement cushion spring would have to account for the wide variety of its operator's left hands.

My Royal Star has had a similar setup with a wire, spacer, belleville spring, and smaller friciton disc. One of the forum "fixes" to improve clutch operation (model was known for clutch slippage as early as 30k) was to toss the wire, spring, spacer, and half disc, and replace them with a full friction disc. Pretty sure the VMax guys were doing this as well. Works well!

 

[LKLD]

Took her out today, as it was mid 70's. Shifting through all gears was good, and still no leakage from the cover. In other words, I didn't screw it up.

First time getting on 2nd gear, I had the milli-pause at around 8,000rpm. The next I rolled hard....nothing up to 8,800rpm. Third time I got a harder pause and grab (around 6,000rpm), but I'm not feeling anything or hearing anything. 4th time, hard on first gear, 2nd up to 8,500rpm, then hit 3rd before backing off....nothing. I'm beginning to think the inconsistency might be related to how hard I hit the throttle. Progressive hard throttle vs. snapping the throttle.

I'm still going to replace the friction plates, and now am leaning to 2nd gear cogs and/or shifter fork as the issue.

Many of you have contributed thoughtful insight into my bike's issue, to which I'm very grateful. I have learned a lot about my bike's clutch, and feel I know much more about what happens when I pull the lever. Only because of the words of encouragement from you, did I even try taking it apart.

Thank you.

 

[s.ga.rider]

Hopefully new plates will do it.

I want to say my r1 had the spring in the pack. I didnt replace it and never noticed any difference.

 

[Fred W]

LKLD - What were the thicknesses of the other friction plates? You only told us about the outer ones that were already oiled.

With this "problem" being as inconsistent as it is, and only when you are really flogging it, I would throw a set of clutch plates in there to see if that does the trick. If it doesn't I would then wait until the problem progresses and becomes worse. From your description, we don't know for certain that it is a gear skipping dogs, or maybe it's just an an engine misfire situation? When was the last time you changed the plugs?

Either way, I wouldn't be anxious to pull the engine and split the cases based on the current level of diagnosis.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I am guessing at those RPM's there isn't a hell of a lot of load. Your dam near redlined. If those are the RPMs you consistently hitting all bets are off. You should be on a closed course.

Drive it till it breaks,

Dave

 

[RadioHowie]

He's hitting the rev limiter.

 

[LKLD]

I'm ordering plates soon Fred, just to eliminate the clutch. I've not changed the plugs since new.

As far as my acceleration, it's done on the very lonely backroads, generally the mine roads nearby. 98% of the time, it's just a more normal riding. I won't be apologetic for my riding.

Howie, I have reached the rev limiter in 1st and 2nd, and maybe one time in 3rd. Again, it's a rare event.

Rode it to work today. No issue with 2nd, and shifting is butter smooth. On the way home, it skipped at 3,500rpm in 2nd. The shift TO 2nd was at 3,000rpm, and a moderate acceleration to get to 3rd.

 

[Fred W]

Hmmm, 3500 rpm is definitely not flogging it. And your not really anywhere near peak power there either.

When it happens, do you sense a slight temporary increase in engine rpm like would occur with a clutch slip?

Or could it be a brief engine misfire? We really haven't had any experience with any ignition misfiring in third Gens up till now, but with the new ignition design maybe you are leading the way into new territory?

 

[Old Guy]

Hmmm, 3500 rpm is definitely not flogging it. And your not really anywhere near peak power there either.
When it happens, do you sense a slight temporary increase in engine rpm like would occur with a clutch slip?

Or could it be a brief engine misfire? We really haven't had any experience with any ignition misfiring in third Gens up till now, but with the new ignition design maybe you are leading the way into new territory?

Yeah. I had sort of come down to the same thing.

My '13 hesitates occasionally at very small throttle openings -- like rolling in slow traffic with very small adjustments to the throttle. It'll sort of hesitate for a fraction of a second then go again. Under those circumstances, with the sudden slack and recovery in the drive train, it'll clunk pretty good. A person could easily decide he had a transmission problem.

Under acceleration, if it did that, I wouldn't think the drive train clunk would be as noticeable, but maybe that's what he's feeling.

 

[LKLD]

Fred, I would have to say yes to your question. It happens so fast, but I feel revs when it does. While watching the tach, and trying to make it happen, I see the tach jump up ever so slightly before catching. Remember, this happens in a fraction of a second.

I was talking with some friends at work, who both have FJ's ( not FJR's), and they mentioned that I have traction control. They were wondering if that could be a factor. I told them I didn't think so. The rear tire is less than half way (T-30 GT's). Still, it made me wonder.

I'll put the new plates on, then new plugs. This weekend I'll disable TC, just to be sure.

So, should I get just the friction plates, or get both friction and metal? Barnett is what I'm looking at (hope they're ok).

https://www.amazon.com/Barnett-Clutch-Plate-Kit-306-90-10073/dp/B002VVFVUK/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_8?ie=UTF8&refRID=0ANKZERV12ZH7061DEGW

 

[Mihalis fjr]

I don't think that the friction plates have a problem.Sounds that the tire loses traction and the TC did its job.I wouldn't buy anything..Sounds normal to me,but this is only my thought...

 

[LKLD]

But why after almost 3 yrs (Dec) is it doing it now? I think I've had TC come into play one time, while in a turn, with some sand on the road. I say "think", because I'm not even sure it was used. The ***-end started to slip, then quickly caught.

We've got a front coming in, so rain forecasted for the next 2 days. Will try TC off this weekend. I'm still going to get plates, because of measurements I got when mic-ing some of them.

 

[Fred W]

I don't think that the friction plates have a problem.Sounds that the tire loses traction and the TC did its job.I wouldn't buy anything..Sounds normal to me,but this is only my thought...

I disagree. I also disagree with my own suggestion about the plugs being the problem. Both because LKLD said that the engine rpm rises slightly when it happens, If either of the above situations occurred (either a misfire or Traction Control intrusion) it would result in a drop in power delivery, and so there would be no increase in rpm at all, if anything a slight decrease. (traction control is able to detect wheel spin before it would be sensed as an rpm increase by the rider)

So, I think we are back to either a slipping clutch or skipping gear dogs if that is true.

Does the problem ever occur in any gear other than 2nd? If yes, that makes the clutch more likely and gear dogs less likely.

If you are going to upgrade to a Barnett clutch I'd replace all the plates. Not sure but I think others who have gone this route also replaced the clutch cover and spring(s) at the same time. Sounds expensive, especially since we still don't really know if the clutch is slipping or not.

If renewing with stock parts I'd probably just do the friction plates and the spring for good measure, but not bother replacing the metal plates.

 

[RossKean]

Unless the metal plates are visibly worn, warped or burnt, I would just clean them up and reinstall. As I mentioned before, a full set of friction plates might be a good idea; especially if there is significant wear on some or all. I certainly can't complain about the service life from the OEM friction plates. While I don't really flog them, they have been utterly reliable for almost 150,000 miles so I (personally) wouldn't be looking at aftermarket.

As far as I know, there isn't really a good way to check the clutch main spring. For the $40 or so, I would replace it. Doesn't matter how good the plates are if there is insufficient spring pressure to allow them to hook up.

Edit: Fred types faster than I do.

 

[Fred W]

...but we said the same thing. I'd go with stock too.

 

[RaYzerman19]

We're doing our best to interpret your descriptions of the issue, but it is difficult to nail this down without testing it ourselves IMHO. With 35k and always Yamalube, it's a little odd the friction plates are worn out at this mileage, BUT if you have verified for sure they are thin, then you may be getting intermittent friction under certain conditions. In that case, spend the money on the clutch. If it's really gone, then I'd replace all the friction plates not just the middle pack, and the spring.

I agree TC is not the issue as that would reduce power, not increase it. However, I'd imagine you actually have to have wheel slippage for it to engage, and that might happen momentarily as a slight increase in RPM but be gone in an instant. Turning it off is the way to eliminate guessing.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

If the friction plates are worn out,or and the metal plates,or and the spring,why doesn't it in the 3rd,4th,5th..?

When i had in the past worn friction plates to other bikes,i noticed the clutch slippage at the 3rd,4th and 5th and very little to nothing in the 2nd.

Also as RaYzerman said ''With 35k and always Yamalube, it's a little odd the friction plates are worn out at this mileage''

Yes,agree,if the tire lose traction,the TC should reduce the power and not to increase the rpms..

As about the friction plates,i'd go with stock.

 

[wfooshee]

If the friction plates are worn out,or and the metal plates,or and the spring,why doesn't it in the 3th,4th,5th..?

Because a hard upshift in 2nd might happen at 55 to 65 miles per hour but the same upshift in 3rd would be about 85 to 90 miles per hour, which not everyone is going to do on the street. Most of us, even in a hard pull through the gears, will shift shorter with higher speed, just to keep from running out of room to ride safely.

Mostly, though, the gap from first to second, the change in ratio, is the biggest of any of the other shifts, i.e. the biggest RPM drop after the shift.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

If the friction plates are worn out,or and the metal plates,or and the spring,why doesn't it in the 3th,4th,5th..?

Because a hard upshift in 2nd might happen at 55 to 65 miles per hour but the same upshift in 3rd would be about 85 to 90 miles per hour, which not everyone is going to do on the street. Most of us, even in a hard pull through the gears, will shift shorter with higher speed, just to keep from running out of room to ride safely.

Mostly, though, the gap from first to second, the change in ratio, is the biggest of any of the other shifts, i.e. the biggest RPM drop after the shift.

I believe if you are in 3rd or 4th with relatively low rpms if there is a problem in the clutch plates when you open hard and fast the throttle you will feel the clutch slippage.

Anyway,we waiting until the new plates will be installed..