New member - oil change question

[BHawk]

Hi, I'm a new member, so please excuse if this is a well-worn/trodden question.

Is there any reason I can't do the 1000 mile oil/shaft oil change using a vacuum pump (Mityvac).

I'm asking this because I'm not sure if there's anything about the FJR that would prevent me from getting all the oil using this method.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[Bounce]

Just drain from the plugs. easy to access. easy to do. easy to clean up. also gets stuff sitting in the bottom that a topper-sucker might not.

 

[exskibum]

Why would you want to use a MityVac instead of the drain plugs?

 

[ctfjr]

I can't even imagine how you could do it with a mighty vac - where would you stick the siphon hose? down the filler? Am I really missing something here?

 

[BHawk]

Well, I've drained from the plug as long as I've had bikes. But, the pump approach is fast, clean (zero oil spillage), and reduces the possibility of stripping the plug (yes, I use a torque wrench, but still). Even draining from the plug won't get all the old oil out of the engine. If the FJR doesn't have an issue with vacuum pumping, that's the approach I'd rather use.

Why would you want to use a MityVac instead of the drain plugs?

 

[BHawk]

Yes, down the oil fill hole. That's how it's done routinely on most inboard boat engines, because of difficulty accessing the plug. It can be used on most any type of engine, unless the design of the engine makes it difficult or impossible to get to the bottom of the sump (hence my question).

I can't even imagine how you could do it with a mighty vac - where would you stick the siphon hose? down the filler? Am I really missing something here?

 

[FJRBluesman]

Well, I've drained from the plug as long as I've had bikes. But, the pump approach is fast, clean (zero oil spillage), and reduces the possibility of stripping the plug (yes, I use a torque wrench, but still). Even draining from the plug won't get all the old oil out of the engine. If the FJR doesn't have an issue with vacuum pumping, that's the approach I'd rather use.

Why would you want to use a MityVac instead of the drain plugs?

It seems to me it's more of a mess using a mighty Vac Vs just draining. Plus you won't get all the oil out using a Mighty Vac. ??? I'm kind of baffled by your request, but if you like it, I don't believe it'll do much harm except.... Leaving dirt, debris, etc at the bottom, thus not totally cleaning out your fluid, which is why you drain it and change it in the first place. Maybe I'm just goofy. :blink:

 

[BHawk]

I think you may be thinking of a different kind of Mityvac.

I'm not talking about the kind used for brake fluid. I'm talking about one that is routinely used for oil changes, for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-7201-Fluid-E...2100&sr=8-1

Some car companies, like Mercedes, use this approach. I'm not sure what dirt and debris would be getting in the engine, unless you're talking about metal from wear during break in, which should be mostly trapped in the filter.

Well, I've drained from the plug as long as I've had bikes. But, the pump approach is fast, clean (zero oil spillage), and reduces the possibility of stripping the plug (yes, I use a torque wrench, but still). Even draining from the plug won't get all the old oil out of the engine. If the FJR doesn't have an issue with vacuum pumping, that's the approach I'd rather use.

Why would you want to use a MityVac instead of the drain plugs?

It seems to me it's more of a mess using a mighty Vac Vs just draining. Plus you won't get all the oil out using a Mighty Vac. ??? I'm kind of baffled by your request, but if you like it, I don't believe it'll do much harm except.... Leaving dirt, debris, etc at the bottom, thus not totally cleaning out your fluid, which is why you drain it and change it in the first place. Maybe I'm just goofy. :blink:

 

[FJRay]

Try it with your vac set up and see how much you get. If you get more than four quarts then its about the same as draining from the bottom. I dont think you can get to the bottom of the sump but try it and report back. If the FJR was hard to get at I could see your point but it is the easiest bike I have changed oil on ever.

 

[user 213]

[SIZE=24pt]Put the tools down and step away from the motorcycle![/SIZE]

Ok, first lesson - Do not, EVER, use a torque wrench on anything with crush washers.

Second lesson - if you have a history of stripping bolts, pay someone else to work on your vehicle.

Third lesson - There is no filter on the final drive pumpkin. (go ahead and go look)

You'd be amazed at how much crap gets to the bottom of a drain pan in cars. Despite having a filter. Yes, Mercedes and VW do suction oil changes and heck, Smart's don't even have oil drain plugs in stock trim, BUT shit still rolls down hill and gravity is a LAW, so using the drain plug when one exists is the best option. Invest in a good drain pan and it's not messy.

What we're telling you is we don't have a clue if you can suck all the oil out of the diff or not with the suction tool. Not sure if you can get the hose all the way down from the fill hole. Plus, I can just about guarantee that as soon as you remove the fill plug, oil will start running out of that hole. Especially if it's your first fluid change there.

 

[BHawk]

I didn't think there was a filter on the final drive (I was referring to the regular oil change) but thanks for the heads up.

I don't have a history of stripping bolts, but I do like to be careful. If the manual says hand tighten, I hand tighten. If it says use a torque wrench, I use a torque wrench. I don't do anything to a bike without the manual. Any of my bikes, and I've had a lot of them.

It might be interesting to try the MityVac and then drain the remainder (if any) through the plug, to see if there really is a difference. Of course, more's going to come out when I pull the filter too.

[SIZE=24pt]Put the tools down and step away from the motorcycle![/SIZE]
Ok, first lesson - Do not, EVER, use a torque wrench on anything with crush washers.

Second lesson - if you have a history of stripping bolts, pay someone else to work on your vehicle.

Third lesson - There is no filter on the final drive pumpkin. (go ahead and go look)

You'd be amazed at how much crap gets to the bottom of a drain pan in cars. Despite having a filter. Yes, Mercedes and VW do suction oil changes and heck, Smart's don't even have oil drain plugs in stock trim, BUT shit still rolls down hill and gravity is a LAW, so using the drain plug when one exists is the best option. Invest in a good drain pan and it's not messy.

What we're telling you is we don't have a clue if you can suck all the oil out of the diff or not with the suction tool. Not sure if you can get the hose all the way down from the fill hole. Plus, I can just about guarantee that as soon as you remove the fill plug, oil will start running out of that hole. Especially if it's your first fluid change there.

 

[cwa]

Please, just change the oil.

 

[user 213]

I didn't think there was a filter on the final drive (I was referring to the regular oil change) but thanks for the heads up.

Just flipping you some shit.

I don't have a history of stripping bolts, but I do like to be careful. If the manual says hand tighten, I hand tighten. If it says use a torque wrench, I use a torque wrench. I don't do anything to a bike without the manual. Any of my bikes, and I've had a lot of them.

That's good to know. I have a manual too, and a lot of experience wrenching, but am not a paid professional. You still need to think about the process, not just blindly follow the manual. That will get you into trouble with the Yamaha manual in many different ways. Crush washers and torque specs don't go together. This won't stop some engineer from creating a spec and it ending up in the manual though. You really need to tighten anything with a crush washer by feel. That's sort of the point, taking up the slack to 'snug', then feeling the washer crush. It's far too easy to just keep tightening it past the safe point with a torque wrench just because you are waiting to reach the spec. There are more than a few posts here from people that stripped out a drain plug using a torque wrench. The spec is too high, on at least one of the drain plugs, if not both.

And then there is the issue of crush washer type. One time use crushable washers that require crushing to seat, (stock on the FJR), or copper/aluminum/plastic re-useable ones that don't, but are intended to prevent damage by over tightening.

It might be interesting to try the MityVac and then drain the remainder (if any) through the plug, to see if there really is a difference. Of course, more's going to come out when I pull the filter too.

Do it and share the results. You'll be adding some new knowledge to the forum, and that's always a good thing.

 

[r1byker]

Okay, so just for fun, I took a thin tube and put it in the oil fill hole to see how far it would go. As far as i can tell, based on length, it "seems" like it reaches the bottom of the sump. Not sure though, and not sure that I reached the lowest point where the oil settles.. Guess i wouldn't spend the money for a pump without being 100% certain it would get all the oil out.

Do it the old-fashioned way.

 

[wfooshee]

Do NOT use the factory torque spec on the drain bolt!!!!! If you look around you'll find a few pans that've had to be replaced by stripping the drain hole before reaching the torque spec.

And I'll redundantly repeat my oft-repeated mantra and say again one more time that if a bolt ain't squishing a gasket or a bearing, or mounting an engine, it doesn't need a torque wrench - you know by feel that it's tight enough.

As for vacuuming the oil, what the &%^@ for? It's the easiest oil change in motorcycledom! It's not messy, except maybe for the filter removal, which you have to do anyway, vacuumed or not. Bike on the centerstand, drain plug is the low point. Some oil stays in the tranny pan. So what? you're not gonna reach that with a hose through the fill hole, either, so it's still gonna be there.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Lets all use our brains for a split second. Why in the world would you think that pulling a drain plug is not the best way to go???

Lets see... The drain plug is usually at the lowest point. The sediment is at the lowest point and sticks to the bottom including the drain plug.

A vacuum sucks (really just less pressure from a true engineering stand point), and what makes you think using a tube blindly, you'll get it to the bottom and get all the sludge off sticking at the lowest point?

Troll or Friday fodder on a Sunday? You decide :dribble:

 

[Bounce]

I'm not talking about the kind used for brake fluid. I'm talking about one that is routinely used for oil changes, for example:
https://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-7201-Fluid-E...2100&sr=8-1

i have one like that and still wouldn't use it for oil changes. i have ramps and a reverse slope for my car and the bike is simply too easy to do traditionally to mess with the hassle of the cleanup of the MV.

 

[Ignacio]

I like to fill the gas tank by putting the fuel nozzle in one tail pipe and thumb over the other one. Takes a little longer, but I find it helps also clean away nasty exhaust valve deposits in the process. Besides, that gas cap is just a bit too hard too reach..what were Yamaha engineers thinking anyway?

:blink:

I don't yet have the heart to move this thread.....just because it's actually a new one I would have NEVER imagined. Goon squad....mount up!

 

[madmike2]

I don't yet have the heart to move this thread.....just because it's actually a new one I would have NEVER imagined. Goon squad....mount up!

Nope...simply another approach to changing the oil.

If it works...good for him.

If it doesn't...say, he only pulls 3 1/2 quarts from the oil sump, there's always the traditional method.

It's rather difficult to throw stones when we haven't tried it.

I do believe Bounce touched more of a grain of truth saying that it may be more trouble to clean up the mighty-vac than the time to drain the oil via the plug.

We'll know once he tried his method and reports.