New Throttle Pulley on 06

[TAPnTX]

Fred,

You know I am just teasing you!!! I am thankful you are on this board, and are willing to explore new ways to make the bike better for you, and whom ever.

And dont get me started I tried to buy your bike when you first got it!!! Ended up Tony came through for me 2 months early!!!

Todd

 

[Bearly Flying]

Scariest words in the Oilpatch " I'm an Engineer, I'm here to help!!!"

Fred; On the progressive pulley on the throttle bodies, is there a way to fill the centre with a filler rod etc to bring the cable further out from the shaft?

Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like maybe a small piece of MIG wire used as a filler for the first 1/3 to 1/2 throttle or possibly some silver solder might work.

 

[Fred H.]

Just to give you an idea of how non-linear the throttle is, I did some testing, and 4K rpm in 4th gear (60mph) is acheived with the throttle slightly less than 1mm off the stop.

I'm not joking. That means you have less than 1mm of movement to control the rpm from 1K to 4k. And 6K rpm comes before you get to 1.5mm of throttle movement.

Something just ain't right here.

 

[lotecredneck]

Interesting. Well done Fred. I really thought when Yammie advertised the "new throttle whatever", they were going to do the opposite and make it so that at low RPM it would take more throttle input to achieve the same throttlebody activation compared to previous models. In other words, make it smoother than the 03-05 generation FJRs.
In fact, are you positive they didn't go that way? I would order an 05 and an 06 pulley so you can physically compare them before going through the PITA of disassembly on your FJR.

Would make an excellent write-up with piccies!

Yamaha's technical guide says " Faster progression throttle is used for more precise throttle control"

Tony

 

[jjsC6]

Just to give you an idea of how non-linear the throttle is, I did some testing, and 4K rpm in 4th gear (60mph) is acheived with the throttle slightly less than 1mm off the stop.
I'm not joking. That means you have less than 1mm of movement to control the rpm from 1K to 4k. And 6K rpm comes before you get to 1.5mm of throttle movement.

Something just ain't right here.

Fred - I can only assume that you did this test with the bike in nuetral - would have been hard to do this while out riding - right? Getting to 4000 with no load is a lot different than with load. While I respect what you are doing, I do not find this to be a problem. Maybe its because I've owned many fast motorcycles, and your point of reference is a Goldwing and a Connie.

Just a thought.

 

[Fred H.]

No, I did this while riding on the way to work. Less than 1mm in fourth gear and you are at or above 60mph (I'm not counting throttle slack).

You have a point on my "point of reference" being a Wing and a Connie. Sport bike guys may not find this to be an issue, but I just don't like it. I want a bit more control in the lower RPM ranges than what is provided.

I suspect Grip Puppies will help, but I am thinking I am going to have to come up with a modification to that pulley as well. Stay tuned....

 

[ShinyPartsUp]

No, I did this while riding on the way to work. Less than 1mm in fourth gear and you are at or above 60mph (I'm not counting throttle slack).
You have a point on my "point of reference" being a Wing and a Connie. Sport bike guys may not find this to be an issue, but I just don't like it. I want a bit more control in the lower RPM ranges than what is provided.

I suspect Grip Puppies will help, but I am thinking I am going to have to come up with a modification to that pulley as well. Stay tuned....

Fred,

I am not a wrench, even in my own imagination, but 1 mm for all that rpm? That just seems wrong and absolutely different from my seat-of-the-pants throttle response experiences on my '06; with and without grip puppies. Any chance you have a 2 standard deviation bike? What does Yamaha have to say if anything?

 

[Shane Stump]

Fred,
Whats up, you just posted last week that you were happy with the FJR, and that the MODS made it a more fun bike to ride!!!

I love the FJR, and I do not feel it is twitchy at all, and shifts very smooth to me, even better than my 05 GoldWing.

If you want twitchy, I will let you take my 06 GSX-R 1000 out for a spin Get it up to about 8k, and just think about twisting the throttle!!!

Todd

P.S. Quit looking under the plastic, you might find something that may haunt you under there

You must not have kids ! They will help you with with any FREE time you might help!

Best regards,

Shane

 

[jjsC6]

No, I did this while riding on the way to work. Less than 1mm in fourth gear and you are at or above 60mph (I'm not counting throttle slack).
You have a point on my "point of reference" being a Wing and a Connie. Sport bike guys may not find this to be an issue, but I just don't like it. I want a bit more control in the lower RPM ranges than what is provided.

I suspect Grip Puppies will help, but I am thinking I am going to have to come up with a modification to that pulley as well. Stay tuned....

Thanks Fred. I almost feel like its sacreligious to dissagree with you because I have so much respect for your opinion. I will definitely follow your findings closely.

 

[Fred H.]

I almost feel like its sacreligious to dissagree with you

Don't feel that way. I am not always right, and I frequently learn something new here myself. Feel free to correct me when I am wrong.

 

[airboss]

You also have to understand, I am an Engineer, and my very nature will not allow me to leave well enough alone.

So I said to the engineer, "this isn't broke, why are we fixing it?"

the engineer said to me "because we can"

Keep up the good work fred :clapping:

 

[Fred H.]

Fred; On the progressive pulley on the throttle bodies, is there a way to fill the centre with a filler rod etc to bring the cable further out from the shaft?Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like maybe a small piece of MIG wire used as a filler for the first 1/3 to 1/2 throttle or possibly some silver solder might work.

This is along the lines of what I am thinking of doing. From what I can tell, you can't buy just the pulley so I am going to have to modify it somehow, and some sort of shim between the cable and pulley will probably be the easiest way to do it. But it has to be done in a manner that will insure that the shim can't bind up the throttle movement or cause it to jam in anyway, as that could be disasterous.

I'll pull off the tank again when I get a chance and see what looks feasible and safe. In the meantime, I ordered some Grip Puppies and I think they will help some as well.

 

[jcyuhn]

Yamaha's technical guide says " Faster progression throttle is used for more precise throttle control"
Tony

You know, the more I read that statement, the less I understand what it means!

Interestingly, almost all cars have very aggressive throttle tip in. The engineers all hate it, for the same reasons - it's difficult to drive smoothly. But consumers are very consistent during research clinics. They want to car to feel powerful, they want it to leap forward at the slightest touch of throttle. Hence most cars have the thottle 90% open when the pedal is halfway to the floor.

FWIW, I don't have a problem with the FJR. CV carbs seem to give smoother throttle tip in than FI, but I don't have any issue with the FJR.

- JimY

 

[painman]

Fred; On the progressive pulley on the throttle bodies, is there a way to fill the centre with a filler rod etc to bring the cable further out from the shaft?

Hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like maybe a small piece of MIG wire used as a filler for the first 1/3 to 1/2 throttle or possibly some silver solder might work.

This is along the lines of what I am thinking of doing. From what I can tell, you can't buy just the pulley so I am going to have to modify it somehow, and some sort of shim between the cable and pulley will probably be the easiest way to do it. But it has to be done in a manner that will insure that the shim can't bind up the throttle movement or cause it to jam in anyway, as that could be disasterous.

I'll pull off the tank again when I get a chance and see what looks feasible and safe. In the meantime, I ordered some Grip Puppies and I think they will help some as well.

Fred, I have installed the grip puppies and it did help smooth out the transition of the throttle when increasing the rpm's. Wish you well on your project. PM. <><

 

[Fred H.]

My current thinking is that I can take a copper wire from a 30 amp romax lead, and shape it into a shim and insert it into the pulley between the cable and pulley trough. Using copper will allow me to form and taper the shim through it's length, though I will need to find a way to fasten it into the pulley so there is no chance it can come out and cause the throttle to jam or bind. Depending on the composition of the pulley (pot metal?) I may be able to actually solder it in place once I get it all dialed in and fine tuned. I may have to remove the pulley from the bike to do it right.

 

[Maywannayamaha1300]

Fred....keep up the good work. It may make some sense here to call Yamaha's technical customer service and let them know how abrubt the throttle is. Also, refer them to their own seel sheet that ...Revised throttle cable pulley gives lighter-action throttle pull. I don't have an 05 to compare it to but this doesn't seem possible. I'm going to alert the rep there about my issues with the bike as well.

You guys shouldn't have to be disconnecting the throttle pulleys etc........this is B.S.

 

[twowheelnut]

You guys shouldn't have to be disconnecting the throttle pulleys etc........this is B.S.

Who says you have to? Some riders are more sensitive to the operation of this bike (or any) than others. Case in point: Heat on previous gen machines. Mine is fine to me, but to others, it's a Webber Grill. Indeed, some have complained about throttle response on previous gens too and have gone the PCIII route to 'fix' this perceived problem. Again, I have no issue with the throttle. There are those who have the '06 that haven't said bupkis about the throttle, so one can conclude that either this is merely a perceived problem or it is a factory defect. I doubt the latter.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Yamaha's technical guide says " Faster progression throttle is used for more precise throttle control"

....Interestingly, almost all cars have very aggressive throttle tip in. The engineers all hate it, for the same reasons - it's difficult to drive smoothly. But consumers are very consistent during research clinics. They want to car to feel powerful, they want it to leap forward at the slightest touch of throttle. Hence most cars have the thottle 90% open when the pedal is halfway to the floor.

I believe this to be true -- among the public it's often referred to as "having zip". Almost all vehicles sold to the motoring public these days need to have "zip". Helps if they're "big", too.....

 

[Fred H.]

Who says you have to? Some riders are more sensitive to the operation of this bike (or any) than others. Case in point: Heat on previous gen machines. Mine is fine to me, but to others, it's a Webber Grill.

Well, look at it this way. Some of the 03-05 owners felt the throttle was a bit too sensitive and installed Grip Puppies and made other mods to tame the bike a bit. The 06 design made the throttle even more sensitive than previous models. So if you thought the 03-05 had a sensitive throttle then you really won't like the 06.

Others may simply adjust to it and it won't be a factor for them. Most of the time I can live with it, but where it really bothers me is riding tight 30-40 mph twisites in any kind of aggressive fashion where throttle control becomes important. It is hard to ride the bike smooth and make mid corner throttle adjustments or shifts without really upsetting the suspension and your line in a turn. It also can make the bike a bit difficult to ride around in traffic at slower speeds when you need to keep the rpms down in the lower ranges.

I wouldn’t say it spoils the bike, because there are so many other things about the FJR that I like, but I think there is definitely room for improvement, which I intend to do. Every bike I have owned seems to have one or two design problems that need to be addressed, and this just looks like one of those things. Some owners may never notice it, and others may hate it, which is par for the course. Put me somewhere on the “dislike” end of the spectrum. If I have to live with it, I will, but if I can find a way to improve it, then you can bet I will do it.

 

[jjsC6]

Fred....keep up the good work. It may make some sense here to call Yamaha's technical customer service and let them know how abrubt the throttle is. Also, refer them to their own seel sheet that ...Revised throttle cable pulley gives lighter-action throttle pull. I don't have an 05 to compare it to but this doesn't seem possible. I'm going to alert the rep there about my issues with the bike as well.
You guys shouldn't have to be disconnecting the throttle pulleys etc........this is B.S.

I think that the truth is that very few riders are bothered by this. I was bothered with the slop during shifting, but I fixed it by adjusting the play in the cable - also, removing the center spring probably helped. As stated in a thread earlier, I don't even notice what Fred is trying to fix. Also, I rode a friends '03 FJR a couple of weeks ago. He and I both rode our own bikes for a while, then swapped for about 20 miles, then back to our own bikes. Neither one of us noticed any difference in this regard.

I'm not trying to diminish what Fred is unhappy with. If he doesn't like it - then I respect that. And I'm damn glad to have him on the FJR forum working on fixing what some riders don't like. But I really think that this issue is not one that very many of us are unhappy about.