November MotorCyclist has sport/touring camparo

[Dangerous Dave]

I think some of you guys take this stuff much too personally. I got the opportunity to trade bikes with my buddy a few weeks ago and rode his C14 about 75 miles while he rode my FJR and then we traded back. The C14 is a very good bike...period. It's not good enough to make me feel the need to rush out and trade in, which was actually quite a relief for me. Then again, I also don't feel the need to rush out and trade in for a Gen II Feej.

However, I also don't feel any need to belittle the Kawi or trumpet that mine is better. The C14 is still a good bike. Admittedly, I do think Kawi missed the mark on a few key points, but to a diehard Kaw fan like my friend Danny, it's nearly the perfect bike. I'm a Yamaha fan, and the Feej is nearly the perfect bike for me, but it's not perfect either. How many FJR owners here have tried one or more sets of bar risers? Windshields?? Seats??? Done any heat fixes on your first gen or traded up to a second gen because of the heat? Replaced your stock mirrors with FZ1 mirrors?

I think it's fair to say that all these items are extremely common mods on Gen I and half of them on Gen II. So doesn't it seem a bit first-grade-ish to sit there and rant about how the C14 mirrors are full of saddlebag (the lower inside 1/4 is, but there's still a generous view behind...better than my stock FJR mirrors) and you don't like the exhaust (subjective), and you think it looks like **** with the bags off (I never take the bags off my FJR), and you think you can whoop-ass on them in the 1/4 mile (who gives a ****...it's a sport-tourer). If you don't like the Connie, don't buy one. My friend Danny is very happy he got his, and not once has he said 'nana nana boo-boo, mine goes 3/10ths faster in the 1/4 mile. There are definately things I don't like about my FJR and trading up to a gen II wouldn't fix all of them. But there's still plenty to like about it, and plenty to like about the C14 as well. To those who've already voiced these sentiments, kudos to you. To those with the nana nana boo-boo attitude, I say grow up.

 

[Bike Effects]

Has anyone come up with the factory recommended valve adjustment interval on the C-14?

 

[bramfrank]

Has anyone come up with the factory recommended valve adjustment interval on the C-14?

Anyone who owns a C14 will have it in their owners' manual - why not ask one of them?

However, you'd better ask on the right continent, because in one market (NA) it is 24000 km/15000 miles. In the other (Europe) it is 42000 km/26000 miles. This information is right from the owners' manuals.

 

[ELP_JC]

I noticed they mentioned the C14 on the highway in 6th gear was at 4000RPM at 70MPH, which is EXACTLY the same as my FJR in 5th when I'm going 70.

GenIIs indicate around 77 (at least my '07 does), but keep in mind real speeds are lower than indicated. So yes, the FJR has better top-gear midrange, but Connie people could argue 5th gear would outgun our FJR, and I wouldn't have a valid counter-argument to that.

Now to the magazine article. I'm also questioning those performance numbers. The FJR and Connie seem almost matched: C14 has a bit more power, a bit LESS torque (similar curves), and it's a bit heavier; how in the world can it be over 1/2 sec quicker on the quarter? Highly suspect, even if the C14 is significantly more aerodynamic, which I doubt as well. No top speed data was also suspect; they usually provide it, and would have shown aerodynamic differences.

About the 6th gear issue, the FJR is perfectly geared in 5th IMO (for its power and top speed), so even if it had 6 gears, 6th would probably be just like 5th. Top gear is good for around 171 indicated, which is beyond top speed. A taller (numerically lower) ratio would bring the rpms down, yes, but sometimes that doesn't lead to better fuel economy, so why do it? Remember a bike has the aerodynamics of a brick, especially a large one like the FJR. Too low of an rpm at highway speeds could lug the engine. The top gear roll-on mentioned above is proof the Connie is overgeared. I used to think the lack of a 6th gear was an FJR handicap (ALL my previous bikes have had it)... until I rode one. Now I'm perfectly fine with 5: less weight, less volume, less shifting. As a comment, my ex BMW K1200RS was almost identically geared to the FJR (same 9K rpm redline too) up to 4th, with 6th being like 5th. So 5th was basically between 4th and 5th on the FJR. I hardly ever used it, except to get to 6th.

Bottom line for me is 6 gears are better than 5, yes, BUT properly spaced, which they rarely are. That's why I'm happy with 5 properly spaced gears on this bike. It's the same on my 6-sp GTO (and Vettes); 5th is almost like 4th, but 6th drops the rpms to hell, so now we need a 7-sp tranny :dribble: . A 5th gear between 5th and 6th would have been better for me than my current 6; another example how engineers can make something seemingly better worse. Later gang.

JC

 

[Wicked Webby]

Sorry Dangerous Dave ..BUT,

I have always been a Kawasaki Guy too (check my current bikes and previous) BUT, Kawi really missed the mark on looks and ergo's of a sport tourer with the C14(the opinion of a Kawi fan)... AND WTF did they just do to my beloved ZX10R for 2008....

https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.as...;content=photos

Let see... They took a sweet looking ride and let their C14 engineers get a hold of it....

Bike effects,

This has been discussed a lot and the C14 valve interval adjustment checks are every 15000 miles / 26000 kilos. Call any Kawi dealer. Or check the link below directly from a C14 owners manual:

https://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.p...6&set_time=

WW

 

[Bike Effects]

Sorry Dangerous Dave ..BUT,
I have always been a Kawasaki Guy too (check my current bikes and previous) BUT, Kawi really missed the mark on looks and ergo's of a sport tourer with the C14(the opinion of a Kawi fan)... AND WTF did they just do to my beloved ZX10R for 2008....

https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/detail.as...;content=photos

Let see... They took a sweet looking ride and let their C14 engineers get a hold of it....

Bike effects,

This has been discussed a lot and the C14 valve interval adjustment checks are every 15000 miles / 26000 kilos. Call any Kawi dealer. Or check the link below directly from a C14 owners manual:

https://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.p...6&set_time=

WW

Thanks. I didn't want to call just to ask that. I can add that tidbit to my others against owning a C-14. To each his own.

 

[GreyGoose]

Painman,

They have not gotten the heat out of the ST1300 (which was why i sold mine and bought the FJR). The guys on that side of the house have been trying to work on a mod since the bikes inception in 2003. The newest farkle is the removable of an inner cowling. The whole thing sounds alot like what went down with Gen 1 FJR's. Dont be surprised if the Gen 2 St1300 claims better airflow and modifications to keep the heat off the rider (sound familiar?). The new Kaw 14 sounds like its got the same heat problem. Rider magazine just wrote up the beast and made a special mention of the heat coming off the bike. Just what ST riders need, another heater on the block. Kawasaki didnt get it right when they came out with the concours back in the 90's (heat and vibration city) and it doesnt look like they got it right with this one either. My guess is that the Gen2 honda will probably raise a few of our eyebrows, but holding your breath to 2010 aint gonna cut it!!!!!

Now back to my blue ridge parkway / skyline drive plans for next week.

GreyGoose

 

[painman]

Thanks for that info GreyGoose, I figured that was probably still the case. Really when I first started looking at sport tourers the Honda was one of the first bikes I saw and liked the concept. And working at the gear and helmet checks at different races and bike shows I get to talk first hand with the riders who come in about their bikes and sometimes the bikes are parked right near our tents where we do the events so I can see who got off what bike and what questions I might have about that bike. So really I'm getting pretty good info as to the pros and cons of each bike. It will be interesting to hear from some C-14 riders after they have ridden them for a while. I still love my Gen II FJR with looks, performance, maintainence, and LD comfort. The Connie to me felt too high, the seat was too narrow and really didn't like the George Forman grill asthetics on the cowling and the bags. The deal breaker for me would be the valve adjustment interval, the heat issue and the smallish fuel tank, not to mention the muffler. That grillwork does look ok on ZX-14 though. The Honda has the heat issue and it does appear "bulbous"(is that a word?) but I like the front end. The Beamer K-1200GT looks cool but as we all know the price tag for most and the upkeep is out of reach. It's nice to have variety though for the many different styles and tastes. I'm very happy with the FJR and wish someday I can find a FJ1200 in really good shape or restore. Ya baby, PM. <><

 

[brianm767]

Well first let me say, I don't have a FJR, I went with the ST for reasons that were particular to me, I actually wanted to love the FJR so much, I preferred it on every way when compared to the ST, Power, looks, handling etc.. but I am very sensitive to vibrations and the FJR simply made my hands go numb, and I personally though the St would be more comfortable on long rides for my wife and I ,but I did recommend the FJR to my neighbor which he did later purchase one, it fits him perfect.
That being said, it's funny, I see on the ST sight, the Kawi forums and this sight, and I'm sure the beamer sights too, every one wants their bike to come in first, and if their bike does come in ahead in the review , it instantly gives them confirmation that they bought the right bike, after all it's the best one according to the magazine article, so they have instant bragging rights to say, you see I told you my bike is better than yours, now of course I can understand that every one wants their bike to win, it's the competiveness in all of us, but even when I bought my ST, I had seen reviews saying this one is faster, or this one handles better, but the bottom line is, I read these reviews and I pick out the bike that best fits my needs, not what the writers say is the best one, often the reasons they don't pick a certain bike to be the winner, might be just the reasons that I would find that, that might be the bikes that fits me the best. I also find that when ever magazines do reviews of Sport tourers, I think they concentrate way to much on the high performance aspect of the bikes rather than it's touring capability, it's no surprise to me that the Connie came out on top, did I mention it seems they often love what ever is new and different also? But I think most of us sport tourer riders are more mature than that, after all this isn't a test between a Hayabusa and a ZX14R where the fastest one in a 1/4 miles is the clear winner,, it's not that clear when it comes to Sport toureing bikes, it's more of a question of what are the most important aspects of a sport toureing bike to you? mine was long distance touring comfort for riding two up without going to a Gold Wing, not speed, handling or any thing else, if the reasons they picked the Connie were most important to me, I would have just kept my Hayabusa that I had set up for sport touring, it was a great bike, I think it was Tim Carithers ? (Motorcyclyist mag)who said in a S/T bike comparo once, if you need to cross several states in rapid time with the least amount of pain and do it as efficiently as possible than the Honda ST is the bike for you, while at the same time noting it was bland, wasn't as fast as the FJR etc.... that sold me on the ST and I'm very happy with it, but it could use more power, my only complaint.

I have not ridden the new Connie, it's a beautiful bike, but from sitting on it, I can tell it's still too sport oriented for an ST bike for what I need,

now lets just wait and see what the Suzuki Hayabusa derived sport tourer will be like???

Have they ever gotten the heat issue out of the ST? I heard it was a real burner riding one of those. That's one reason why I bought the 06 FJR and coming off a HD I never noticed any vibrations. I did notice some wrist issues but did the spring unwind mod and is purfect now but that's a whole nuther subject. PM. <><

No heat issues for me, I've ridden in temps up to 106 so far and it's no worse than any cruiser I've ever ridden, now I'm not saying there is no heat, some times at very low speeds there is some heat that kicks up around your right leg, but my Blackbird will roast your crotch like a Hibachi, so the ST is no problem at all for me, I have three friends who live within a few miles from me in Fresno, it's often over 100 in the summer, none of my friends have any issues with the heat either, but yes there are some folks on the ST sight who said they have to sale their ST's because , as one guy said, it feels like he's about to burst into flames? I guess it's like the vibes on a FJR, some notice it, some don't,

I used to have a Sporster that vibrated pretty bad, and I often ride my teenage daughters SV650 which also vibrates, they both shake pretty good, but I guess it's the frequency of the FJR vibes I couldn't deal with, it made my hands go numb when cruising at highway speeds. I wanted to buy the FJR, but I couldnt due to teh vibes,

 

[Fred W]

I used to have a Sporster that vibrated pretty bad, and I often ride my teenage daughters SV650 which also vibrates, they both shake pretty good, but I guess it's the frequency of the FJR vibes I couldn't deal with, it made my hands go numb when cruising at highway speeds. I wanted to buy the FJR, but I couldnt due to teh vibes,

FJR? Vibes? Try riding a few miles on the old Concours...

But you are comparing it to a V-twin sporty and still think the FJR has vibration problems?

You must have been riding one that was seriously out of tune...

 

[brianm767]

I used to have a Sporster that vibrated pretty bad, and I often ride my teenage daughters SV650 which also vibrates, they both shake pretty good, but I guess it's the frequency of the FJR vibes I couldn't deal with, it made my hands go numb when cruising at highway speeds. I wanted to buy the FJR, but I couldnt due to teh vibes,

FJR? Vibes? Try riding a few miles on the old Concours...

But you are comparing it to a V-twin sporty and still think the FJR has vibration problems?

You must have been riding one that was seriously out of tune...

I've ridden three FJR's two were new from the dealer, (test rides) and the third is my neighbors, new 06, it has less than a thousand miles on it, and no it doesn't shake like our sporty did, but it's the frequency of the vibes that kill me, I know it sounds crazy, yes I could ride all day on our sporty, and it did tire me out, but it did not make my hands feel numb., it's all about the frequency. I've also ridden my buddies R1200RT, and that thing feels like it's got a box of rocks in the motor, but it still does not give me the buzz in my hands, thats it!, thats the word I should be using, the FJR doesn't vibrate or shake like some of the bikes I ride, it buzzes, and thats what gets to hands, my Hayabusa would also buzz if you cruised at 87MPH so I just avoided that rpm range

 

[Fred W]

I used to have a Sporster that vibrated pretty bad, and I often ride my teenage daughters SV650 which also vibrates, they both shake pretty good, but I guess it's the frequency of the FJR vibes I couldn't deal with, it made my hands go numb when cruising at highway speeds. I wanted to buy the FJR, but I couldnt due to teh vibes,

FJR? Vibes? Try riding a few miles on the old Concours...

But you are comparing it to a V-twin sporty and still think the FJR has vibration problems?

You must have been riding one that was seriously out of tune...

I've ridden three FJR's two were new from the dealer, (test rides) and the third is my neighbors, new 06, it has less than a thousand miles on it, and no it doesn't shake like our sporty did, but it's the frequency of the vibes that kill me, I know it sounds crazy, yes I could ride all day on our sporty, and it did tire me out, but it did not make my hands feel numb., it's all about the frequency. I've also ridden my buddies R1200RT, and that thing feels like it's got a box of rocks in the motor, but it still does not give me the buzz in my hands, thats it!, thats the word I should be using, the FJR doesn't vibrate or shake like some of the bikes I ride, it buzzes, and thats what gets to hands, my Hayabusa would also buzz if you cruised at 87MPH so I just avoided that rpm range

Yeah, I'm with ya now. What's the buzz? Tell me what's a happenin'...

The conventional wisdom is that "the buzz" can be mitigated with: Big Ass Bar-Ends, Grip puppies, thick gloves in winter, loosened grip on the bars. My hands don't fall asleep, but after a daylong ride I know they've been holding onto something that's been vibrating. I have only just recently got a pair of 1 lb. BABEs and haven't employed any of the other "fixes" on my bike yet.

 

[brianm767]

I used to have a Sporster that vibrated pretty bad, and I often ride my teenage daughters SV650 which also vibrates, they both shake pretty good, but I guess it's the frequency of the FJR vibes I couldn't deal with, it made my hands go numb when cruising at highway speeds. I wanted to buy the FJR, but I couldnt due to teh vibes,

FJR? Vibes? Try riding a few miles on the old Concours...

But you are comparing it to a V-twin sporty and still think the FJR has vibration problems?

You must have been riding one that was seriously out of tune...

I've ridden three FJR's two were new from the dealer, (test rides) and the third is my neighbors, new 06, it has less than a thousand miles on Yt, and no it doesn't shake like our sporty did, but it's the frequency of the vibes that kill me, I know it sounds crazy, yes I could ride all day on our sporty, and it did tire me out, but it did not make my hands feel numb., it's all about the frequency. I've also ridden my buddies R1200RT, and that thing feels like it's got a box of rocks in the motor, but it still does not give me the buzz in my hands, thats it!, thats the word I should be using, the FJR doesn't vibrate or shake like some of the bikes I ride, it buzzes, and thats what gets to hands, my Hayabusa would also buzz if you cruised at 87MPH so I just avoided that rpm range

Yeah, I'm with ya now. What's the buzz? Tell me what's a happenin'...

The conventional wisdom is that "the buzz" can be mitigated with: Big Ass Bar-Ends, Grip puppies, thick gloves in winter, loosened grip on the bars. My hands don't fall asleep, but after a daylong ride I know they've been holding onto something that's been vibrating. I have only just recently got a pair of 1 lb. BABEs and haven't employed any of the other "fixes" on my bike yet.

Yah at times when I see my neighbors FJR, I some times think I should have tried all that stuff, but I didn't want to buy a bike, try those easy mods, and still have a problem with it, then I have a bike that I can't ride for any real distances, so I went for the ST, and I love the ST, I will always think it's ugly, no getting around that, and it does need a little more power, but for my riding, mostly rides of 300 miles or more, it's a fantastic bike, I don't regret buying the Honda one bit,

Originally I was going to buy either the FJR or ST back in 03, and between the two, with the FJR's vibes and the Honda's heat problems I held off, but this Feb I could wait no more, I had never felt any heat while test riding a ST, but I did feel the vibes on the FJR, so that made my mind up for me, who knows I might swap to the FJR when I get tired of the ST?? I love the black cherry

 

[Fred W]

Yah at times when I see my neighbors FJR, I some times think I should have tried all that stuff, but I didn't want to buy a bike, try those easy mods, and still have a problem with it, then I have a bike that I can't ride for any real distances, so I went for the ST, and I love the ST, I will always think it's ugly, no getting around that, and it does need a little more power, but for my riding, mostly rides of 300 miles or more, it's a fantastic bike, I don't regret buying the Honda one bit,
Originally I was going to buy either the FJR or ST back in 03, and between the two, with the FJR's vibes and the Honda's heat problems I held off, but this Feb I could wait no more, I had never felt any heat while test riding a ST, but I did feel the vibes on the FJR, so that made my mind up for me, who knows I might swap to the FJR when I get tired of the ST?? I love the black cherry

I can see that. I was in the exact same market when I bought my '05 (used) last fall. I would have gone with a nice Honda ST if I had found one in my price range and in good shape. I'm rather fond of the Honda V4 engines through my experience with VFRs albeit oriented differently.

A lot of folks here on the forum are really down on the Honda ST's, but I think that may be because they were the closest competition in terms of total package to the FJR, that is up until the release of the new Conk. Oh, and I am with you in regards to the heat issue. I don't have problems with my 1st gen FJR. I'm betting that I wouldn't have problems with an ST. I actually tend to put more seat time in early and late in the season when it's cooler for other reasons (summer months are so busy) and I never ride in shorts and flip-flops. :glare:

But I have a perfect solution for you. Get an FJR and keep the ST!! :yahoo:

 

[madmike2]

There are a number of people who are sensitive to the "buzz" of the FJR. It must be just the right frequency?!?! The best bet would be a trial ride, if it could be arranged, on someone's bike who has done all of the mods.

Different grips, MCL risers (angled out), a throttle lock and heavy bar ends have mitigated the issue for me.

 

[Dan23]

I think some of you guys take this stuff much too personally.
~snip~

To those with the nana nana boo-boo attitude, I say grow up.

Honest to God.

I can hardly wait until next month when the FJR gets bitch slapped by the C14 in the upcoming MCN comparo. This thread's been so funny that next month promises to be hilarious.

You guys are now all a bunch of losers riding a bike that is second best. Well, actually, it's always been second best, but now it's got a new rival.

 

[FJRMGM]

three years ago I bought the best bike on the market for me - the FJR.

Today, I still feel like it's the best bike for me and I enjoy the Hell out of every ride on it.

 

[painman]

I think some of you guys take this stuff much too personally.
~snip~

To those with the nana nana boo-boo attitude, I say grow up.

Honest to God.

I can hardly wait until next month when the FJR gets bitch slapped by the C14 in the upcoming MCN comparo. This thread's been so funny that next month promises to be hilarious.

You guys are now all a bunch of losers riding a bike that is second best. Well, actually, it's always been second best, but now it's got a new rival.

Somebody wrote it in a magazine so it must be true...... :lol: Give me a break. What a joke. Oh ya, Kawi's suck. PM. <><

 

[Bagger]

After reading many magazines (and MCN, and speaking with Fred Rau and the rest), and not ever tossing a leg over a FJR, I plunked down my dough on a new '06 with the mandated 4-6 month waiting period.

I got my FJR and (altho the magazines said it was the best thing out there ST/wise) I found it extremely uncomfy ergonomically in stock condition. I spent time on this board and others ... searching for solutions.

I bought riser after riser ... finally MCLarry's riser plate. I got the Grip Puppies. I bought a customized Russell Day Long saddle with rider backrest. I did the Barbarian mod, the middle throttle spring release, added a CalSci BIG windscreen, played with the suspension's adjustments, tire pressures .... you name it, I either bought it or had it modded.

The bike was just uncomfortable for me ... altho the mods made it much better than stock.

I've ridden many bikes, many marques over the last 40+ years. Most were much less advanced than the '06 FJR, but most ..... MOST .... were more comfortable to ride than the stock/modded FJR. It's just me. Many on this and the other boards love the OEM bike. Believe me .... I wanted to love it as well. The bike was very fast, handled well and was nice looking. But that said, it was just freakin' uncomfortable! I could not ride more than a couple hours before I wanted off. It's just me and my bod.

I sold it recently to a member here who (apparently?) enjoys it a great deal. I bought a slightly used ST1300 with some saddle/heated grips/Super Brace/cruise/top box/Powerlet deals/rider peg extensions/MCLarry's riser plate, yada, yada .... like 3-4 grand in options.

I like it many times better than the FJR. No more heat than the '06 FJR, maybe less. ST sounds like a Ford 9N farm tractor with the V4 .... odd sound. FJR sounds like a M3 with a couple cylinders flat.

The ST may not be as fast as the FJR, but it's not as 'hyper' either. It is fast enough, tho. The ST has nice lower end torque compared with the FJR and it is EZr to "learn" how to deal with the clutch release. Both have tight throttles and need to be addressed IMO.

I have a Sargent saddle on the ST and I think it is better than the Russell I had on the FJR. But, that is subjective .... as are all opinions. I did (eventually ...) like the Russell backrest. However, the Sargent is not very comfy .... it's hard as a brick.

The riding position on the FJR was just terrible for me. No matter what I did, I could not spend much time in the saddle on that bike. The ST is better, but not perfect. Maybe twice as comfy ... .but, I've had BIG HD baggers, my Wing and my (late) Valkyrie that were vastly more comfy for touring. Maybe not more fun, but certainly more comfy. Different bike certainly, but comfort is not a compromise for 'faster, better handling, etc' if you can't tour with the bike. Just my opinion ....

I wanted to love the FJR. It was not my cup o'tea. I rode ALL the BMWs .... only the very fast ST was close (can't remember exactly which it was .... inline 4 groovy looking), but the ergos/clutch/screwy buttons put me off. And, the Beemer's are pretty pricey, too. I'm not that price sensitive, but want a bike that can be ridden (by me) as it is intended.

Bottom line is ..... The various ST bikes are pretty nice. Some are more powerful than others, some are more comfy than others, some handle better than others, some are more pricey than others, some can be "modded" EZr than others. I guess it just comes down to what one wants and what one will accept. Everything has trade offs.

I like the ST13 Honda better than the FJR, BMWs and.... altho I have not but sat on a Connie14 .... better than the 14, too.

We each have to find what defines what we want and how we will use the bike. I'm sure I will get something else in the near future that will replace my ST1300. It's just how the world works.

 

[madmike2]

After reading many magazines (and MCN, and speaking with Fred Rau and the rest), and not ever tossing a leg over a FJR, I plunked down my dough on a new '06 with the mandated 4-6 month waiting period.<major snippage>

We each have to find what defines what we want and how we will use the bike. I'm sure I will get something else in the near future that will replace my ST1300. It's just how the world works.

Exactly! That's why there are so many bikes to choose from, they ALL sell and have satisfied owners. I moved from an older cruiser/tourer to a Kawi Concours to the FJR. It suits me (@6'2. 240 lbs, 32" inseam) and the mods I've done make it all day comfy for me. OTH, I ride with friends who own many different styles and brands of bikes, I've ridden with a local ST1300 owner who is waaaay more aggressive on twisty roads than I am. Its the rider, and he teaches me!

6 months from now (if not already) there will be a list of the necessary things C-14 owners are doing to mod their bikes to fit their needs/desires/requirements. Thats just the nature of the "joy of motorcycle ownership". One buys it, mods it, enjoys it...or replaces it. Simple!

Just as your ST1300 fits you, my FJR makes my heart sing every time I see it in my garage, in the parking lot at work before my commute home, parked in a turn-out when on a ride, sit in the saddle to head...well, anywhere. Now, let's go for a ride.