Ok Boys & Girls. It looks like it's my turn now!

[majicmaker]

IS the CCT really troublesome with this design? Are there many documented cases of failure?
Curious,

W2

Short answer: On Gen II bikes, no. And, as far as that goes, CCT failures on Gen I bikes are not even as common as the anecdotal evidence on this forum would suggest.

I think people often need to take a deep breath and just relax. Just as not every freckle is cancerous, not every odd noise is a CCT going south.

Good point Sock, But Man-o-Man, when you actually hear the sound of marbles in your engine. The hair on the back of your neck stands up and your butthole

puckers up like a frog under water! There was no way on earth I was going to ignore that! Especially when my Y.E.S. is still alive and well. Just Sayin'

 

[omnislash]

I replaced mine at bout 140,000km. A Gen I bike. No smell of fuel but i could tell the diff in the sound immediately after riding the bike for 6 yrs.

 

[SkooterG]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Put me in the 'I don't get the CCT hysteria' category.

110k on my first one, currently have 105k on my second and it's running fine. Plenty of other high mileage CCTs out there with no problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's to guarantee you 'replace at 52k or whatever' scaredy-cats aren't going to take a perfectly functioning CCT out and replace it with a defective one?

While I agree the CCT is one of the 'weak' areas of the FJR design, that doesn't mean they are all going to go bad in short order.

 

[dsmack]

I think people often need to take a deep breath and just relax. Just as not every freckle is cancerous, not every odd noise is a CCT going south.

Sock, that's a good point, but because I've had 6 melanomas removed in the past 2 1/2 years, I tend to not leave things to luck... just sayin! :assassin: (<-- my oncologist/surgeon)

I'm starting to look as though I've lost a bad knife fight but at least all mine have still been "in-situ", thank God!

To me, early detection and prevention for both problems seems the prudent course of action.

Everyone Stay Safe!

Don

 

[Wee Willy]

Don, I agree. I guess he felt it was safe to twist the throttle only after it started up and had no sound of marbles and was idling smooth. The way I looked at it.
If he really screwed something up real bad, he's the SM and he was going to fix it for free until it was running properly. It's all on Yamaha's dime. :yahoo:

Wow...it doesn't take the CC being off much before it only takes a partial turn to seriously f**k up the hardware. Firing it up when this problem is suspected is kinda like playing Russian roulette with 5 of six loaded...with magnum hollow points.

That would not have been my first choice of diagnostic. And if it did go boom, you've just increased your chances of not getting everything fixed to your complete satisfaction first time around. Problems are much easier to solve when they're little, especially where insurance is involved.

My 2 cents anyway. Hope it all comes out in the wash OK.

Cheers,

W2

 

[majicmaker]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Put me in the 'I don't get the CCT hysteria' category.

110k on my first one, currently have 105k on my second and it's running fine. Plenty of other high mileage CCTs out there with no problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's to guarantee you 'replace at 52k or whatever' scaredy-cats aren't going to take a perfectly functioning CCT out and replace it with a defective one?

While I agree the CCT is one of the 'weak' areas of the FJR design, that doesn't mean they are all going to go bad in short order.

SkooterG,

I completely understand what you are saying, and with me holding you in the "High Esteem Catagory" for the man who pulled the trigger on Howie's successful

rescue mission, I have to tell you that, this was no "The Sky is Falling" thing. When I started it up after it shut itself off, I actually heard the sound of a bag of

marbles in my engine with an awful smell of raw fuel and the idle was barely keeping itself alive. Having heard that sound on many airplane engines in my life

and seeing the catastrophic results when I opened it up, I had no choice but to take it to the dealer and have it looked at. I'm sure that you would have done

the same thing. You've been fortunate up until now. Howie and Patriot haven't. I just didn't want to be the next poor bastard on their team. Respectfully, VIC.

 

[majicmaker]

I think people often need to take a deep breath and just relax. Just as not every freckle is cancerous, not every odd noise is a CCT going south.

Sock, that's a good point, but because I've had 6 melanomas removed in the past 2 1/2 years, I tend to not leave things to luck... just sayin! :assassin: (<-- my oncologist/surgeon)

I'm starting to look as though I've lost a bad knife fight but at least all mine have still been "in-situ", thank God!

To me, early detection and prevention for both problems seems the prudent course of action.

Everyone Stay Safe!

Don

Don, I couldn't have said it better than that. When it comes to Health issues or Motorcycles, Preventive Maintanence is a Beautiful Thing!!! :yahoo:

 

[majicmaker]

Don, I agree. I guess he felt it was safe to twist the throttle only after it started up and had no sound of marbles and was idling smooth. The way I looked at it.
If he really screwed something up real bad, he's the SM and he was going to fix it for free until it was running properly. It's all on Yamaha's dime. :yahoo:

Wow...it doesn't take the CC being off much before it only takes a partial turn to seriously f**k up the hardware. Firing it up when this problem is suspected is kinda like playing Russian roulette with 5 of six loaded...with magnum hollow points.

That would not have been my first choice of diagnostic. And if it did go boom, you've just increased your chances of not getting everything fixed to your complete satisfaction first time around. Problems are much easier to solve when they're little, especially where insurance is involved.

My 2 cents anyway. Hope it all comes out in the wash OK.

Cheers,

W2

W2,

You make an excellent point. But, I have confidence in the Yamaha system. If the SM would have blown my engine up, they would be responsible for getting

my bike back to running order. If I didn't like the final results after they told me that it's the best they can do. That would give me the perfect excuse to go out

and buy a new AE. The color of the "09AE is F#@King Gorgous. This is the bike that I will have for a Long, Long time. I've had this one for three years now and

I still get Goose Bumps when I walk into my garage and see it for the first time that day. I love my "06AE more than I've loved any other bike I've ever owned.

But, I'll buy a new AE in a New York second. :clapping:

 

[Brodie]

Gentlemen, Ladies,

What you see below is a production Manual Cam Chain Tensioner from American Performance Engineering - APE.

The MCCT is now available from APE at the nominal fee of around 52.00. That is cheaper than the Yamaha OEM CCT. Because it gets set and locked down by a jamb nut, it will never back off and let the cam chain skip a tooth. I plan to replace my 8000 mile ( second ) Yamaha CCT in another month when my '06 reaches 78k on the clock.

After I heard about Howie's CCT failure, and then Mike's CCT failure, I contacted APE to see what they could do for us. My daughter's '03 CBR600 F4i has one in place. It was installed by the previous owner. I'm finding out that several model sport bikes have cam chain tensioners that are known to cause grief. APE has been making these for years and have not had any problems that I know of. This p/n YT1300 tensioner is proven technology.

At the time, APE did not have one for the FJR1300. They asked me to send them my old Yamaha CCT so they could build one for us. They sent me a prototype a few weeks later to dry fit and check for clearances. I made the screw driver slot modification in the prototype to clear the frame, and APE incorporated it into their production units. They let me keep the prototype and sent me the first production unit when it was ready. I later sent the prototype to Howie.

Below is the prototype installed, but not tensioned in my '06.

You will not see it on the APE web site yet. APE MANUAL CAM CHAIN TENSIONERS They will be adding it soon.

If anyone is interested contact Pat at American Performance Engineering.

mailto:[email protected]

mailto:[email protected][email protected]
mailto:[email protected]mailto:[email protected]
Tell him you have an FJR1300 and would like the new Manual Cam Chain Tensioner - p/n YT1300.

Also tell him Brodie sent you.
I do not have a stake in this, save for the free unit they sent me after using my old Yamaha CCT to as a template. Howie has the prototype in his beautiful '04 "Frankenbike". He's happy with the way it turned out.

Let's nip this thing in the bud!

Brodie

 

[majicmaker]

Oh Man, Brodie, That is Sweeeet! :clapping:

 

[Fred W]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
Put me in the 'I don't get the CCT hysteria' category.

110k on my first one, currently have 105k on my second and it's running fine. Plenty of other high mileage CCTs out there with no problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. What's to guarantee you 'replace at 52k or whatever' scaredy-cats aren't going to take a perfectly functioning CCT out and replace it with a defective one?

Partly true. But surely you realize that just because you (and others) have had good experiences, that does not negate the magnitude of those other bad experiences in the least.

For me the biggest thing will be to take the thing out and hold it in my own hands and feel it's tension (or lack thereof) and compare it to the other one I have messed around with (ionbeam's). If everything looks kosher, I could just add some tension if it appears warranted and stick the same part back in.

But for the paltry cost of a new tensioner, why put the seasoned one back in? Plus the new tensioner is said to be of a slightly improved design. Just leaving the original in there without even inspecting it is the Russian Roulette game previously mentioned. Yeah, there are lot'sa empty chambers, but hitting that loaded one really sucks. :glare:

The ideal situation IMO would be to get a "torque spec" for the torsion spring so that we could test these tensioners in-situ. It is well understood that the tension varies over the length of the tensioner's throw and based on how the tensioner was originally assembled. If we just knew what the designers wanted that spring's tension to be it would be a piece of cake to check it. At this point we are stuck with "how it feels". Subjectivity on something like this is less than ideal.

While I agree the CCT is one of the 'weak' areas of the FJR design, that doesn't mean they are all going to go bad in short order.

I don't care if they all go bad.

I really only care about 1 of them...

 

[Zorlac]

Does APE have a recommended procedure for setting the chain tension before locking it down?

 

[RadioHowie]

Gentlemen, Ladies,
What you see below is a production Manual Cam Chain Tensioner from American Performance Engineering - APE.

The MCCT is now available from APE at the nominal fee of around 52.00. That is cheaper than the Yamaha OEM CCT. Because it gets set and locked down by a jamb nut, it will never back off and let the cam chain skip a tooth.

Excellent news, my brother.

At $52, this is spectacularly inexpensive insurance for the FJR community. I can attest to the quality and sturdiness of this unit and as Brodie said, this sucker ain't coming loose.

Like Brodie, I have no dog in this hunt, and can only suggest that YOU do what's right for YOU. For me it was getting the OEM unit as far away from my motor as humanly possible.

Hugs and kisses,

'Howie

 

[RadioHowie]

Does APE have a recommended procedure for setting the chain tension before locking it down?

APE'S instructions for a CRF450 One-lunger

In a nutshell, screw in the adjuster until you feel it hit the chain slipper, then back it out 1/4 turn. Start motor and listen for slapping chain noise. Turn in adjuster JUST enough to make noise go away.

It's voodoo, I tell ya.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I noticed on there website it said to block off oil flow. Can someone elaborate on this?

 

[RadioHowie]

I noticed on there website it said to block off oil flow. Can someone elaborate on this?

Some brands/models use oil pressure instead of, or along with spring tension to provide force to the OEM auto CCT.

The FJR is a 100% spring-force application. Oil pressure isn't part of the equation and is irrelevant in our application.

 

[SockMonkey]

I think people often need to take a deep breath and just relax. Just as not every freckle is cancerous, not every odd noise is a CCT going south.

Sock, that's a good point, but because I've had 6 melanomas removed in the past 2 1/2 years, I tend to not leave things to luck... just sayin! :assassin: (<-- my oncologist/surgeon)

I'm starting to look as though I've lost a bad knife fight but at least all mine have still been "in-situ", thank God!

To me, early detection and prevention for both problems seems the prudent course of action.

Everyone Stay Safe!

Don

Don, I couldn't have said it better than that. When it comes to Health issues or Motorcycles, Preventive Maintanence is a Beautiful Thing!!! :yahoo:

Yes, preventative maintenance (like preventative medicine) is a very beautiful thing. Pay strict attention to the maintenance schedule in your owner's manuals, allow your bike to warm up properly off throttle and listen for sounds that don't sound as they should. On all these points, I'm both a staunch believer and avid practitioner.

What bothers me immensely however, are people immediately assuming the worst just because they've read something reported on this forum. I've seen it numerous times in my 2.5 years on this forum and I have to admit that it all seems just a bit psychosomatic. To say to your mechanic, "[does] he [know] that the CCT is the weak link in this engine..." based on anecdotal evidence is simply wrong in my opinion (and you have to question whether the mechanic was simply being agreeable in his response). To make a statement like that and report it here without solid evidence to support it doesn't do anyone any good. My advice before anyone ever makes these broad, sweeping generalizations, is to poll all the owners, add up all the miles ridden and convert that to time @ avg. 60 MPH (to make it easy), and then calculate the Mean Time Between Failure for - in this case, the CCT. If someone can demonstrate that the MTBF is less than, say, 1,500 hrs (~90k miles) across the sample, I'll concede the point and help draft a letter to Yamaha with a presentation of the technical data. Gladly. I'll even pay the FedEx charge to get it to Yamaha's doorstep.

I know things happen and parts go bad. I was a trained mechanic, so believe me I get it. But there have been, what, between 5 to 10 CCT failures reported on this forum..? To me, that doesn't mean it's a weak anything. Let's do our homework before we jump off the deep end. That's all I'm saying...

 

[SnowAviation]

It's voodoo, I tell ya.

Rotate the motor forwards, while screwing it in until you feel the cam chain drag against the cam chain guide. Then back it out 1/4 turn. DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN! (See picture).

Start the bike. bring it to an idle and listen for any clanking or slapping sounds coming from

the cam chain. If you hear these sounds, leave the bike running and back the jam nut off making

sure the tensioner bolt does not back out. If you let it back out you will damage your motor.

I would think that some would get nervous by the simplistic warning, do not overtighten.

In this day and age of torque wrenches and automatic tensioners, they might want to add

some warning like the second paragraph, "you will damage your motor".

The cool thing is, it'll be the only thing you need two 5/8 wrenchs for on your bike... :blink:

 

[HaulinAshe]

I replaced my Gen-II CCT and Cam Chain at 65,000 miles, mainly because I was "already in there" doing a valve adjust and many other major service items. I have YES on the bike but chose to purchase the parts outside of warranty in order to avoid allowing a dealership that far into my bike.

To me, it was spending $100 or so on parts to avoid my bike sitting for weeks in a dealership when I could be out riding. Changing the CCT itself is NOT major surgery. I saw no evidence to support the need to replace the cam chain at any specific interval, which IS major surgery.

My vote is spend the $100 and one afternoon of your own time, or spend $300 at a dealership to have them replace the CCT at roughly 50-60k miles. It's just not that big of a deal.

Either way, it helped quieten down my motor and I don't plan to worry about CCT failure until Spring when I hit 100k on the '07.

I hope the dealership treats this guy's bike well and fixes all the problems. It sounds like he's already had more than his share of warranty repair issues.

 

[HaulinAshe]

majicmaker - I went back and reread your post. To me, it sounds much more like you had an injector sticking and flooded a cylinder. That will produce the same "knocking" or "marbles" sound you described and certainly explains the smell of raw fuel.

The FJR will pound and ping like a mutha when it gets flooded. All that raw fuel has nowhere to go during the compression stroke. You'll swear the motor is about to blow up! By the time you took the bike to the dealer, the excess fuel had time to dissipate and was no longer an issue.

Personally, I would be more suspect of the fuel source used last than a bad CCT. The increased percentage of alcohol in our current fuel supplies is wreaking havoc with many high-performance engines, and IMO represents a much greater threat than the risk of a bad CCT from Yamaha, especially for those like us who live in humid climates. (excluding RadioHowie of course)

One last suggestion... If you have ANY sign of a weak battery, that will easily flood the engine. Any chance the motor went "waa waa waa waa vroom" before she started? Just askin...