Prius is an environmental nightmare

[Bullit]

Well, why the hell didn't you say so in the first place? If you read your post prior to my comments, you'll see how it led me to believe otherwise. Also, though I may have pissed you off, at least you are still here, which, at the end of the day, is a good thing.
Oh, one more thing... I traded in the hummer on this:

[link]https://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/tmb/8374_image.gif[/link]

Now I have the perfect conveyance for grocery shopping and latte fetching. :grin:

I'm glad that we're all on the same page, and friends again, sorry about the confusion. I don't run away from trouble, the best way to deal work it out, is to stare it straight in the face and deal with it, which we did and it is good....now.

Nice truck, it needs a lift kit, some big [SIZE=18pt]big[/SIZE] tires, baby seal skin seat covers and a pair of those big rubber balls hanging off the trailer hitch, then it would be perfect!! :trinibob: Metrosexual redneck pickup!!

PS: My former boss drives one of them! :big_boss:

 

[Bullit]

The edge of the new order: Hydrogen Motorcycle!!

 

[v65]

The edge of the new order: Hydrogen Motorcycle!!

If someone would invent a motorcycle powered by flatulence I could be the fastest guy on the forum h34r: Guess I will have to be satisfied with probably not the slowest.

 

[radman]

Wasn't that long ago I had a 72 Buick LeSabre winter beater, a 455 non catalyzed 325 thousand mile gem of a car. I only dumped it because it had rusted to the point where I could have replaced the fuel tank, or changed the gear lube and the shocks without need of a hoist. It would still smoke the tires (yes tires, it had a posi) for all of first gear and well into second, was good for 125 mph with no shake, and the ac (still leak free and using r12) would require some heat added when it was 95 degrees out. But it's greatest asset was the way it would, if I feathered the throttle at a light, drive absolutely crazy any Subaru or Vulva driver behind me at a light. It only got 12mpg, but I could overhaul any component for less than $5 it seemed. I loved that car. One Sat evening, a cop was at my door, telling me a neighbor had called in a hit and run. We went out, and sure as hell, a rust outline in the form of the Buick was in the street, indicating it now sat 3 feet ahead of where it had been originally parked, as well as having a new red mark on the drivers side rear bumper. As the cop and I talked, a p/u pulled up, with a guy my age and a teeny bopper girl. He was Dad, she was the owner of a now totaled red Mitsubishi Colt, which now sported a folded hood, a crushed radiator support and smashed radiator that had been pushed into the engine, which had broken the mounts and been pushed into the firewall. She had left the scene, terrified as a kid would be at 16. As the cop read her the riot act for leaving the scene, Dad and I determined she had definitely gotten the worse end of the deal, as I rubbed the red mark, the ONLY damage the Buick had received (swear to God) off the bumper. I didn't press any charges, as the story was beyond value.

 

[Bullit]

Wasn't that long ago I had a 72 Buick LeSabre winter beater.

Reminds me of my old Chev pickup, H/O 350, dual exhaust, B&M slap-shifter and also posi, it could pass anything but a gas station! Nothing fancy on the outside, rather plain-jane, until you popped the hood to see the chrome engine covers, tall intake dome and big jeezus open element filter. It would haul ass, but cost me a fortune in fuel, and that was about 12 years ago, before gas prices went apeshit! I never did figure out the MPG, I just knew it was bad, but so much fun!

 

[gr8eyes]

I'll buy the first prius that can haul my family of 6, and the 7500lb boat, at 80mph, in air conditioned comfort. Until then the Yukon will have to do, or, well I guess the Escalade will work too.

 

[IndianaTom]

I'll buy the first prius that can haul my family of 6, and the 7500lb boat, at 80mph, in air conditioned comfort. Until then the Yukon will have to do, or, well I guess the Escalade will work too.

and here you have it.

EDIT...

woops, HERE you have it

 

[gr8eyes]

I've been following the development of their hybrid trucks for a year or 2. That will definitely be an option when put in the Suburban/Yukon/Escalade drivetrain, for the family. We travel alot to Houston so I don't think they would go for a P/U.

 

[twowheelnut]

I'll buy the first prius that can haul my family of 6, and the 7500lb boat, at 80mph, in air conditioned comfort. Until then the Yukon will have to do, or, well I guess the Escalade will work too.

Yo, Clark! I got'cher car right here, buddy!

:lol:

 

[motorgod]

Actually, this is not something that needs to be beaten to death here, we frequent this forum to discuss motorcyling, not political and environmental issues. So personally, I will be letting this topic fade away. On to more interesting and less controversial discussions, like some nice long bike trip or farkling up our bikes!!

WOW...we can debate GLOBAL WARMING, AN EXREMELY DIVISIVE POLITICAL ISSUE, but I cannot say one thing about how athletes are involved in crime without getting a NASTY NOTE FROM ******** TELLING ME TO TAKE MY SPORTS/POLITICS SOMEWHERE ELSE. I'll just join in this ENVIRONMENTAL/POLITICAL banter and feel good about my 50% warning meter.

 

[SkooterG]

I'll just join in this ENVIRONMENTAL/POLITICAL banter and feel good about my 50% warning meter.

Well, that's better than resurrecting 2 year old threads.

Regarding *joining* this thread, do you actually have anything to add that actually pertains to the subject matter? All I see is an off topic rant out of nowhere.

Time to take your meds?

 

[vectervp1]

I'll buy the first prius that can haul my family of 6, and the 7500lb boat, at 80mph, in air conditioned comfort. Until then the Yukon will have to do, or, well I guess the Escalade will work too.

and here you have it.

EDIT...

woops, HERE you have it

From the first link....

It just happens to get 10 to 15 percent better fuel economy than a normal pickup truck, thanks to a clever application of hybrid propulsion technology.

Oh yeah, that 10-15% increase is gas milage will be great... That should equate to about 1-2mpg out of a full size truck with a V8. Nah, to me this is clever advertising, not clever application of electric motors.

 

[jestal]

Oh yeah, that 10-15% increase is gas milage will be great... That should equate to about 1-2mpg out of a full size truck with a V8. Nah, to me this is clever advertising, not clever application of electric motors.

Me thinks you are missing the point...and sorely missing what it takes to get fuel economy from a vehicle. How would YOU propose adding 2 MPG to an SUV fuel economy without the clever use of electric motors...??? Those vehicles will get excellent fuel economy overall due to the combination of DOD technology (cylinder cutout) combined with regenerative braking savings in city driving from the hybrid technology. The thing to not miss here is that those vehicles will be true dual mode hybirds (unlike the lowly Pious...LOL) capable of operating on gas or electric or both independently. Since SUV's are heavy and use the most fuel (mass equates to fuel economy due to F=MA) AND the motoring public has expressed their desire/need for SUV's as evidenced by their buying habits it certainly does make sense to apply the technology that saves the most fuel to those vehicles....that use the most fuel and that most people want. On a percentage basis there is significant savings from both. And if you REALLY want to save GASOLINE buy one of those and run it on E85 which it will be capable of also. You can drive coast to coast on the equivalent of one tank of gasoline....if saving petroleum is really your goal. There is something to be said for the Prius getting high absolute fuel economy numbers but it really does not meet the needs of many people, especially if the person can only afford one vehicle and must drive what meets their requirements (family, boat, towing, etc) all the rest of the time. There is also a lot to be said for taking that vehicle (SUV) that meets the needs of the most and making IT get significantly better fuel economy, as the dual mode hybrid, DOD, FlexFuel GM SUVS will do.

 

[jestal]

Along the lines of this discussion topic the recent Supreme Court decision to allow regulation of CO2 as a "green house" gas has several interesting aspects.....

On the surface it is hard to argue with mother hood and apple pie and reducing green house gases so the CO2 standards the Supreme Court allowed make a lot of people feel "good" like it is the right thing to do....but....consider: Internal combustion engines take HC fuel, burn it with air and release CO2 and H2O. That's it. CO2 and water vapor. The actual pollutants (HC, CO, NOx) are being delt with by catalysts and other systems to the point that they are almost non-existent in the exhaust anymore.

Back to the CO2 and H2O. Why not just regulate the H2O "emissions" ??? It would make just as much sense to regulate H2O emissions from the tailpipe as CO2 as the two constituents are always in the same ratio as long as combustion is taking place. I believe that people would think politicians and the Supremes would look pretty stupid as EVERYONE would realize that regulating water vapor emissions is somewhat pointless. But, the fact is, that regulating CO2 from vehicle exhausts is no different at all from regulating H2O emissions. Same same. Just that most people don't realize this and think that CO2 can be "eliminated" or "dealt with" in some magic fashion to rid vehicle exhausts of it.

Actually, it would make MORE sense to regulate the H2O emissions from tailpipes if the whole cause was to reduce the green house effect. Seriously. Water vapor is a much more aggressive "green house" gas than CO2. That example about temps staying warmer at night when there is cloud cover (water vapor) is real. Since H2O is the bigger player in the greenhouse effect IT should be regulated. Is the idea of CO2 regulation sounding stupid to you yet?

Taking this whole idea of regulating CO2 even further, human breath contains H2O and CO2 when you exhale. It is simply not enough to regulate CO2 from engines. Humans will need a CO2 regulation tax/device. Limit heavy breathing as it causes far greater CO2 emissions. Lay on the couch to reduce greenhouse gases instead of exercising.

This means something to everyone on this forum that likes internal combustion engines. The CO2 limits proposed and upheld by the Supreme Court are nothing more than an engine displacement/performance limit. It will lead to limiting the displacement/performance of every internal combustion engine in a vehicle. Enjoy your 1300 cc FJR while it lasts.....seriously.

 

[twowheelnut]

This means something to everyone on this forum that likes internal combustion engines. The CO2 limits proposed and upheld by the Supreme Court are nothing more than an engine displacement/performance limit. It will lead to limiting the displacement/performance of every internal combustion engine in a vehicle. Enjoy your 1300 cc FJR while it lasts.....seriously.

I'm in with that conclusion, so start talking to us about fuel cells and hydrogen. I think we can all agree that the current crop of IC engines in any guise are soon (relatively speaking) to be toast and that goes for stopgap hybrids. Tell us wha'cha got cookin', j...

 

[dcarver]

This means something to everyone on this forum that likes internal combustion engines. The CO2 limits proposed and upheld by the Supreme Court are nothing more than an engine displacement/performance limit. It will lead to limiting the displacement/performance of every internal combustion engine in a vehicle. Enjoy your 1300 cc FJR while it lasts.....seriously.

I agree. In 1984 I was fortunate enough to buy a .75 ton F250 with 460 gas motor. Immediately installed an Edlebrock RV manifold and cam, had the carb and ignition jetted and re-curved after installing the 3" exhaust system. ...and, at the time, 1984, thought 'gee, I might be one of the last folks who has the fun of driving a big gas V8 that runs well'.

...now, I feel the same way about the FJR... by comparison, my 2002 Dodge 1 ton 4x4 dually runs a solid 17mpg. The FJR, on average, 35. Ok, I pussy foot the Dodge and romp the FJR.. oh, wait, I'm the CBA guy who had carbonized valves because I didn't run it hard enough.. shit, so much for that story..

..and I'm the same guy who bought a really freakin' expensive camper to go on the back of the Dodge truck and now can't afford the fuel bill to go anywhere..

I agree fully with Jestal, the handwriting is on the wall for us old farts who enjoy fossilized fuel propulsion systems..

 

[jestal]

I'm in with that conclusion, so start talking to us about fuel cells and hydrogen. I think we can all agree that the current crop of IC engines in any guise are soon (relatively speaking) to be toast and that goes for stopgap hybrids. Tell us wha'cha got cookin', j...

Hydrogen is not a fuel. End of story. Hyrogen is an energy storage medium. Thinking it is a fuel is what is causing all the confusion. Hydrogen has to be created (or unlocked from whatever it has combined with) and it takes a lot of energy to create it. That energy has to come from somewhere.....???? Something makes me think the "hydrogen economy" has a long tough road to hoe. Just my opinion.

 

[jestal]

The key point in this discussion is to keep in mind that neither hydrogen, electics, hybrids, ethanol, nor diesels is THE single answer. There is a place for each and every one of them in the grand scheme of things. The mindset that often prevails is that there is some sort of panacea out there that will answer the mobil energy needs for the future. In my opinion there isn't. We are not likey to replace kerosene for flying airplanes due to the energy density. An electric will work fine in a retirement community. You are not going to tow horse trailers with an electric pickup. Hybrids can save fuel if the system can be optimized for the mission at hand. Hydrogen certainly has a place IF a reasonable means of generating hydrogen can be created (that is the problem, not making the fuel cell work!) In the meantime the consumer/traveler/commuter/etc. has to have some means and incentive to utilize and adopt the technology that fits their needs most. The single means of doing this that has been successful todate is fuel prices. When gas costs $2.00 the choice is easy....whatever gas engine that comes along. When fuel costs $6.00 a gallon it makes perfect sense to adopt the technololy that saves the most fuel for that particular usage and the consumer can make the decision that is BEST FOR THEM rather than having someone legislate what they THINK they need.

The inescapble political part here is that legislating higher fuel prices to act as an enabler for alternate fuels and alternate technology is viewed as political suicide. Instead, it is easier to legislate ignorant ideas like CO2 limits and transfer THE PROBLEM to the backs of the autocompanies. Politically correct for the politicians but, unfortunately, it drives exactly the WRONG sets of decisions down the chain....and people fall for it.

I think the first thing to do with the whole issue of fuel economy, greenhouse gases, alternate fuels, etc. is EDUCATION. If people start to understand some of the fundamental underlying principals the whole thing makes more sense and they can see thru the political maneuverings going on...maneuverings that are going to hurt all of us in the long run.

BTW......IF (and that is a big IF) there could be created a reasonable source of hydrogen it does make a lot of sense. Hydrogen is most often associated with fuel cells but hydrogen can run fine in a plain ole' spark ignited internal combustion engine given a few simple changes. It runs great, actually.

If you didn't want to wade thru the Jestalia Chronicals thread to discover the lost post you might want to check out https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html This presents several scientific FACTS that might change your viewpoint on global warming and what can actually be accomplished with motor vehicles.

 

[C&C]

Took the test; got them all right. I remember an editorial from "Car and Driver" in which Patrick Bedard wrote on the subject (I got most of my answers from that article). A couple of questions, I wasn't quite sure of, so I tried to give them an educated guess (and got those right as well). It appears that the latest media blitz for the reduction of the carbon 'footprint' is just a way to do something (even if not based on scientific fact; here again, it gets ink because it's the trendy thing to do. On a related topic I'm still not convince that the freon fiasco was contributory to the ozone debacle (but that's a different story).

 

[bramfrank]

IMO at issue is that THE ENERGY AND SOCIAL COST OF MANUFACTURING A VEHICLE TO REPLACE ONE I ALREADY HAVE is such that you'd never save enough of anything buying the new one to cover what it took to manufacture it. So keep your Prius as a bunch of raw minerals, because the poisons it contains and the energy it requires to manufacture just aren't worth the cost.

I completely agree with the notion that easily collected fossil fuels as we know them are starting to run down - and the biggest problem is . . . . overpopulation. Then again, that's just my personal view - and it is as good as that of the thousands of scientists who have published the environmental report (yet couldn't agree on its content) - because they know as much (or as little) as I do about such things. Mankind has an unblemished record of failing at every attempt to control (or even properly understand) nature.

Greenland wasn't named what it is because it is white. 600 years ago it was a lot warmer on earth than it is these days - and all that fossil fuel was still firmly in the ground then. There is scientific evidence (such as this evidence can be) that it has also been cooler at times than it is today. So just what is 'normal' as far as mother nature is concerned? And that . . . . is the crux of the matter. Until a weatherman can accurately predict tomorrow's weather I will dstrust his longer term ones.

Kyoto is a crock. Al Gore is a scheming opportunist. At issue is that this planet cannot sustain 6 billion+ humans in the style to which we Northern Hemisphere types have become accustomed. 'Raising the standard of living' for second and third world countries is what's killing our planet.

There ought to be mandatory requirements for second and third world countries to produce quotas of Soylent Green. That's where it's at.