Resolved!: Screwed up big -- trusted the dealer for the first valve check

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I would just get the bike home & check it out.

If it runs like it did before it went in then they probably fixed it but are unwilling to acknowledge the fact - just forget the whole thing and put it down to experience.

If it is not running like it did then it's time to consider other options............

 
Agree with Donal - all is well that ends well. If it runs right, I'd drop it and move on. I would not return to that dealer for service, but I'd be done with this drama.

But if not running right, then 'm with Tom - I'd take it apart myself with my son videoing the whole time. I'd check the spark plug wires very carefully in route to the camshafts. And anything else that could have some effect (electrical connection, etc)

Again - I'd do it on the edge of their parking lot - out of the way, but to be certain, I would NOT leave their property. It's important to remove ANY doubt that I went home, altered something, and brought it back to them. I'd bring a trailer and my pickup truck. and do it in the trailer, carefully placing the removed parts in the back of my truck (IOW - I'd be respectful of their property). All you need is a handful of tools to remove the gas tank, T-Bar, and the cam cover, and a pan/gallon jug to drain the coolant.

Then I'd go back into the dealer with my video and (sigh) try ONE last time to ask them to be reasonable. If they still refused, then all bets are off. Rip their eyes out the socket and shit in the hole.

However if I found the bike in time, I'd eat my helping of crow. I'd go back into the dealer and apologize profusely. Then I'd put my bike back together, bring it to another dealership, present my YES warranty, and ask the new dealer to start over, fully prepared for anything (warranty repair or otherwise).

 
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Having been a lawyer who, once upon a time, served the local bar as a small claims advisor and sat as a small claims judge pro tempore, I should make a couple points about the likely role of the court system in this drama.

First, there is almost certainly not enough money involved (unless the service guy grenades the engine) to make hiring a lawyer feasible for much beyond writing a letter, if that. Small claims court is not a venue well suited to complicated issues or time consuming proof problems. The small claims courtroom is usually FULL of people with disputes that turn on relatively simple fact patterns and there is limited time to hear all their cases. It is NOT amusing to anyone when a claimant wants to put on a half day case in a half day session jammed with 15 other cases.

When you have multiple witnesses, complex explanations, numerous photographs, lengthy video, conflicting testimony of the parties, and the probable need for expert testimony . . . just to prove or disprove an issue like this . . ., then small claims courts will typically not be a suitable (or maybe even permissible) venue. As the plaintiff/claimant, that will probably mean that you are advised to take it to the civil court venue where lawyers are allowed and a fuller pretrial process including motions and discovery are permitted. OR you put on an abbreviated and conclusory case in 15 or 20 minutes (including the defense), with the likely decision being that you didn't meet your burden of proof. OR even if you win somehow, the defendant appeals it, which normally means a retrial in the civil court venue with lawyers. Varies from state to state, of course. And that's just getting the case heard - never mind the collection hurdles if you ever do win.

Please see El Toro's excellent common sense suggestions in post #78, above, that take account of these realities and suggest a far better modus operandi than litigation or threats thereof in matters such as these.

Usual Disclaimers: this is neither intended as an attack on anyone else's suggestions, nor as legal advice to be relied upon in any specific case. I am no longer a practicing attorney, judge, engineer, soothsayer, medium or fortune teller, and any representations to the contrary, express or implied, should be disregarded. No warranties of any sort are extended by this typing exercise on a dreary, rainy day, and the worth of this post is exactly what each reader has paid for it, . . . or less.

 
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Good advice. And furthermore, to make a litigious civil (or small claims court) claim, one would have to have sustained actual (or at least provable) damages. What are the damages here?

A few hundred dollars paid for a service gone unsatisfactorily? (happens every single day). All service work past the originally agreed upon preventive maintenance shopuld be on their dime anyway since the bike is covered by extended warranty. Loss of use of one;s beloved motorcycle during prime riding weather (hard to attach any monetary value on that). Loss of faith in the bike shop used only for the first time (has no monetary value).

Absolute best course of action is to get yourself out of this problem, however you can, and then learn something... whatever you can, from the situation. Life's lessons are often far more expensive than this one.

 
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I already know it won't be running right. My sincere hope is that the cams are off a tooth, and if they are, then my plan is to get a big box of donuts and drop them off at the shop. And if they aren't off a tooth (i.e. I'm full of crap), then perhaps it will be a slightly larger box of donuts. Had to work today, picking it up tomorrow. Won't be working on it in their parking lot -- two problems with that idea. First, I've never pulled the panels before, not my idea of the best place to show off my ignorance. And second, my tool box is 52" long and would never fit in the truck...

 
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You need a bigger truck, well I had to poke some fun at a sad situation.
drag.gif


Good luck and I hope I never have this problem.

Dave

 
If I still own this bike when 26,600 rolls around -- I have no plans to the contrary, but that many miles on one bike would be a first for me -- I'll be hunting up a nearby, mechanically-inclined forum member to walk me through the process. (Y'all have been forewarned.)

 
Red - you don't need a 52" tool box to check the timing. You will need:

8 mm socket with 1/4 drive rachet and a short extention (for coolant hoses and draining coolant)

pair of needle nose pliers (to remove Pairs clamps)

6mm allen socket and 3/8" rachet and long extension (for front tank bolts and the timing cover)

12 mm socket for the rear fuel tank bolt

12 mm wrench (for the other end of the rear fuel tank bolt)

Phillips screwdriver and 4 mm allen head socket (for the pastic piece behind the fuel tank.

14 mm socket and short extension (for the T-bar)

??? allen head socket (for the cam cover)

A very bright and concentrated flash light - to shine on the timing marks on the cam.

IIRC, you don't need to remove the right side fairing just to get the timing cover off and check for TDC.

Agree with others - the juice from a small claim is not worth the squeeze.

Going the Yamaha warranty route would eventually resolve it - but I think it would take forever.

At this point, I'd be willing to fix it myself, but I'd still be standing on a matter of principle for having to PAY to get here. IOW - my goal would be to prove them wrong and give me my money back. If you leave the parking lot, IMO, you have no chance of that.

My curiosity would overwhelm me - I would HAVE to look at those timing marks. IF the bike is in time, well then I'd have to eat crow. And I'd do it. And then I'd fall back on my warranty.

The heck with donuts. We don't have to like each other - give me my money back.

 
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Now that's a first: I only pressed the post button once but it double posted around Mr Pants' post.

Then when I check back the second post has dissappeared.

Awesome software.

 
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Good point Fred - We have a poll somewhere on here with a decent amount of data that tells us (at least from that sampling) that 85-ish% of us won't need any shim change on the first check anyway.

 
Life's been good to me so far!

I showed up this morning, fully expecting to nurse the bike home, and immediately after I get in the shop's door, the service manager comes straight out of his office, noting he was just about to call me. "Hmm" says me, "something wrong?". Reply is no, the opposite. After my continued vehemence that the bike was fine when I brought it, they decided -- apparently against the recommendation of Yamaha tech support -- to check the cam timing again, this time finding that they had, indeed, skipped a tooth on the crank sprocket. It wasn't particularly clear, but office chatter sounded as though they had also had another similar result with an R1...

Service manager and I came to an equitable financial conclusion -- half of the original estimate. It took a bit to convince them, but they did look for and find what was wrong, so I applaud them quite a lot for that. And they even cleaned the bike! Heck, I only do that if the Love Bug build up starts to smell!

 
Now what the hell are we going to do for the rest of the winter? Good that it turned out well for you, but now we've lost something to bitch about, bemoan and offer bad advice about.

Oh, well... happy riding on your squeaky clean and well running FJR.

 
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Great news. I'm glad that you didn't have to go without the bike for weeks longer. Have a REALLY good look over it for missing fasteners and stuff assembled wrong (cable routing etc.). I'm betting that you will be the next person to tear into it for routine maintenance; not the dealer. See if they can tell you anything about the shim mapping. Makes the next valve check much easier. It would also be good to know what they had to change. Unusual to NEED much at this stage of the bike's life.

 
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Ahhhh..... a happy ending. I'm glad all is well in your FJR world once again. That being said, it's JUST TOO DAMNED BAD they couldn't follow your (our) advice and check the timing as one of the first things when shit was not right. I hope the SM ate some crow and gave you props for TELLING THEM WHAT THEY FUCKED UP AND HOW TO FIX IT.

And Gee, some fart smeller that has never even seen your bike nailed it on post #2!!!! But I digress......

 
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