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Agree ^ but do you know your chances of getting in accident are also amplified greatly with high speeds (most of us being wayyy above the limits at that).
Where did you get that tidbit of information from? Specifically that is.
Been in (I guess one would say high speed) powersporting almost my entire life, known (tidbit of information lol) and an actual fact and presented multiple times in all types of publications. Several formulas out there with pretty much the same results.

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In words: the number of injury accidents after the change in speed (A2) equals the number of accidents before the change (A1) multiplied by the new average speed (v2) divided by the former average speed (v1), raised to the square power.

It's not an argument or even a start to one, just a comparison I used to any bike biggots that think they're all that (safety wise) cuz they wear gear but still take twistys until the centerstand shoots out sparkies. It was simply a wait just a minute for any Pots calling the Kettle black.

I'm guilty of all of the above btw, no angel here! :blink:

 
Agree ^ but do you know your chances of getting in accident are also amplified greatly with high speeds (most of us being wayyy above the limits at that).
Where did you get that tidbit of information from? Specifically that is.
Been in (I guess one would say high speed) powersporting almost my entire life, known (tidbit of information lol) and an actual fact and presented multiple times in all types of publications. Several formulas out there with pretty much the same results.

image006.gif


image004.gif


In words: the number of injury accidents after the change in speed (A2) equals the number of accidents before the change (A1) multiplied by the new average speed (v2) divided by the former average speed (v1), raised to the square power.

It's not an argument or even a start to one, just a comparison I used to any bike biggots that think they're all that (safety wise) cuz they wear gear but still take twistys until the centerstand shoots out sparkies. It was simply a wait just a minute for any Pots calling the Kettle black.

I'm guilty of all of the above btw, no angel here! :blink:
Nice little graphs and formulas and stuff but I have some knowledge in public safety and crash statistics and crash causes also. And I think you info is bunk.

Now, if you substituted "number of accidents" or "accident risk" with "risk of injury" or "risk of more severe injury" I would be in 100% agreement with you.

IOW, your chance of getting in an accident is NOT amplified greatly with increase in speed, but your chance of being injured in an accident IS amplified greatly with increase of speed. This is because energy is increased with with the square of speed (E= 1/2mV2) and so when involved in a crash at high speeds there is a lot of energy to dissipate - usually in the form of damage, to the vehicle and it's occupants.

As for your twisty's comparison. Well, according to your own false logic, then going 60mph straight down the road is more dangerous than scraping the 'centerstand' in the twisties at 40mph.

 
Good point Skooter.

But I think we can all agree that we don't want to see you riding in shorts. Please don't! No posting of photos of you doing that either! :D

 
One part of Top's chart I DO agree with is when speed reaches zero mph the incident of injury approaches zero. I would disagree with the implication of the curve that at some point if speed was high enough that injury accidents would become a certainty. I also agree with Skoot that this isn't a simple 2 axis equation.

 
Good point Skooter.

But I think we can all agree that we don't want to see you riding in shorts. Please don't! No posting of photos of you doing that either! :D
I agree, just a low speed slide makes the difference, I dont feel like meeting the famous brush to remove the small stones in my skin. And I’m not too hot for a skin transplant.

 
One part of Top's chart I DO agree with is when speed reaches zero mph the incident of injury approaches zero.
I have to disagree with that statement. The risk of injury is NEVER zero, even if you aren't even sitting on a motorcycle.

Why an ACME anvil could fall outta the sky and squash you like Wile E Coyote or sumpthin!! :huh:

But seriously, Skooter made a very good point in differentiating the quantity of injuries vs. the severity. And guess what... that's exactly what wearing all that cumbersome, goofy lookin', Power Rangers riding gear does for you. It won't prevent a damn thing. But it will reduce the severity of the injuries if (or when) it does happen.

I'm sorry Top_Speed, but I really fail to see any validity in your argument that it's OK to not wear the protective gear if the ride is short and it's too hot out.

That is just faulty logic. The same faulty logic that makes people believe that when they have seen a coin come up heads 4 times in a row that the odds are now much better it will come up tails the next time. It isn't. It's still 50:50.

Your odds that you will get into an accident for one minute of a ride where you are riding to pick up a loaf of bread at the corner store are pretty much identical to the odds that you will on one minute of a much longer trip. So when you accumulate all of those little trips to the corner store wearing a tee shirt and shorts, it will be equal to the longer trip in total.

If you already recognize that wearing protective gear will mitigate the extent of injuries when you do have a crash, which clearly you admit to since you wear it when you think you might crash, the why on earth would you want to take that same added risk to get a ******* loaf of bread? Is it because you are too lazy to put the gear on? Because you are vain? Is it peer pressure?

And why do you think that someone else who is UNWILLING to take that added risk, and so suits up every time, is somehow a moron? :huh: We all have our own limits and values. We all find what we think is an acceptable level of risk vs. reward in our lives. We are all risk takers in most peoples' eyes, just for straddling a murdercycle. If you opt to ride around without ATGATT, that is certainly your choice. And I wouldn't call you a moron for doing so. You just have a different perspective on risk.

I'll let you in on a little secret: Time isn't all that precious, unless you make it so. If the few minutes it takes to put on a pair of mesh pants and jacket is too much for the trip I have in mind, I either don't make the trip or else jump in a car. I figure the time saved in not gearing up isn't worth the time potentially spent recovering from some silly 30-40 mph accident.

Like I said, we all do what we want to. That's what makes life grand. Just don't expect anyone with any level of intelligence to buy your specious, self gratifying arguments for not gearing up 'cause it's just a short ride and it's hot out.

 
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eh smoke another bowl if you don't think going faster increases your risk. All those studies and evaluations don't mean anything and everything is OK as long as you ride with proper gear, right?

oh Mary Jane needs a break I think lol.

 
One part of Top's chart I DO agree with is when speed reaches zero mph the incident of injury approaches zero.
I have to disagree with that statement. The risk of injury is NEVER zero, even if you aren't even sitting on a motorcycle.

Why an ACME anvil could fall outta the sky and squash you like Wile E Coyote or sumpthin!! :huh:
We just learned about an ankle-breaker that sounds like it happened at 0 mph here on the forum:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=147169

 
If i'm just going for a short ride like to my buddies... yes, shorts McGee here i come. I'm not dressing all up in no 100 degree weather to go down the road a it. U can call it stupid (protection wise) but at least I won't be one of those morons spending more time dressing and undressing than what it takes total time to get there. Long or aggressive rides is another story and yes I'm all about the correct gear. So depends ~~~~ situation.

Now I do wear a FF helmet even in States that don't require them. Go figure :) but note the helmet whips on in 1.6 seconds.
Here's something to keep in mind regarding those "just around the corner" trips (from an insurance website):

Distance From Home % of Accidents

< 1 mile 23%

2 - 5 miles 29%

6 - 10 miles 17%

11 - 15 miles 8%

16 - 20 miles 6%

> 20 miles 17%

Over 50% occur within 5 miles from home.

 
You know that 80% of all accidents occur five miles from home or less. You might consider putting on the gear until you're five miles away from your house, then taking it off, just to improve your odds. :p

Silly as it sounds, and assuming that that statistic is true for motorcycles as well as cars, that would improve your odds tremendously.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 
One part of Top's chart I DO agree with is when speed reaches zero mph the incident of injury approaches zero.
I have to disagree with that statement. The risk of injury is NEVER zero, even if you aren't even sitting on a motorcycle...
I did not say reaches zero risk of injury, I was deliberate and careful in saying approaches zero. I've seen riders fall over at 0 mph and get caught under their motorcycle. As pointed out, the Oldwinger managed to find yet another way to cause a no speed accident with personal injury.

On a straight, flat, open road with no side street access, in good weather, with good visibility, and a skilled rider on a mechanically sound motorcycle the risk of injury solely due to speed is pretty low. Change any of those factors and speed becomes a more important part of the equation. Skoot's background has given him a particularly good professional understanding of highway safety and the various elements.

 
Yup, approaches zero != reaches zero.

And yea, I recall reading a guy fell off his bike in the garage and shattered his jaw on the bumper of his car parked next to the bike. Sucks getting into an accident at zero miles per hour.

While on that note. Does it have to be the bike moving or the other vehicle. Being as I nearly got creamed a number of years ago by two vehicles that collided in the intersection in front of me due to one of them running the red light, one vehicle going to the left of me and one to the right. I was moving at zero miles per hour, but they were hauling butt when they and their various pieces went past me.

 
...Skoot's background has given him a particularly good professional understanding of highway safety and the various elements.
...or of the dynamic coefficient of friction between his bodywear and the Playa surface. :D

I do know from my experiences that motorcycle gear is NOT a "supersuit"...it does not have the ability to save you from the laws of physics. Impact still hurts. My gear has saved me from losing my outer body protective membrane...and has lessened the blow to my shoulder such that worse damage than separated shoulders or broken ribs did not occur.

People should understand the violence that a sudden stop...say hitting a tree, or slamming against a rock or a ditch brings. You will understand after that experience that suits do what they can, which is save skin and lessen impact and maybe save a life, but stoopid or risky behaviour, or just plain dumb bad luck has a bill to pay.

...and sometimes that bill is more than our body can pay.

So...be careful out there...shorts or no shorts.

 
All those studies and evaluations don't mean anything and everything is OK as long as you ride with proper gear, right?

oh Mary Jane needs a break I think lol.
WTF? Nobody made that assertion.

Pull your head out of the sand!
I see we have a tough time here with a little twist of humor, twisted as it may be all I was (prior) saying is that we all takes chances whether it's shorts McGee or 100mph sweeps. Done.

That's all, keep the panties out of a knot everyone lol

 
ATGATT. I got some nasty burns from the tank of my Gen 1 FJR, through nylon shorts and mesh riding pants. I sit as far forward as I can because my arms are so short. Riding home from Arizona during some triple digit weather. Everything was hot and uncomfortable but I didn't realize it was actually a burn until we got to a rest stop.

I spent the rest of the ride home wondering how on earth I was going to explain my injury at the ER. Thankfully, getting off the bike, a cool shower and lots of aloe Vera saved me the embarrassment.
Glad you had a easy recovery, SP. You'd have had to make up a much more interesting story for the peeps in the ER than "I just when for a ride, honest!"

Tip - On those hot rides, get gas sooner. Nothing heats up faster than a nearly empty FJR tank. Stop at 100-150 and top off the tank with some nice, in ground stored, cool gas and it will cool the tank down, and the extra liquid will help prevent the tank from getting as hot.

 
ATGATT. I got some nasty burns from the tank of my Gen 1 FJR, through nylon shorts and mesh riding pants. I sit as far forward as I can because my arms are so short. Riding home from Arizona during some triple digit weather. Everything was hot and uncomfortable but I didn't realize it was actually a burn until we got to a rest stop.

I spent the rest of the ride home wondering how on earth I was going to explain my injury at the ER. Thankfully, getting off the bike, a cool shower and lots of aloe Vera saved me the embarrassment.
Glad you had a easy recovery, SP. You'd have had to make up a much more interesting story for the peeps in the ER than "I just when for a ride, honest!"

Tip - On those hot rides, get gas sooner. Nothing heats up faster than a nearly empty FJR tank. Stop at 100-150 and top off the tank with some nice, in ground stored, cool gas and it will cool the tank down, and the extra liquid will help prevent the tank from getting as hot.
Thanks for the tip. I guess I would have neede an even better story for the forum, especially if posted on a Friday.

 
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