riding with high beams on

[Fred W]

As someone else mentioned, this seems to be mostly (only?) true in intersections, certainly not with on coming traffic about to turn left in front of you.

Oh, certainly not.... Why I'd bet my life that the dope sitting there in the left turn lane knows this and I'd just start flashing away....

Again, it doesn't matter what you know, it matters what the dope sitting in the cage in the left turn lane knows.

You have no idea what he knows or what he thinks flashing your brights at him means, so why confuse him into doing something stupid and killing you?

Absolutely. I'm with you. I'm just saying when it is that people use the flashing headlight intentionally to say "yeah, go ahead". I do not want to give any cagers any possible reason to misinterpret my intentions. No headlight modulators here. Just solid high beams all day long (unless there really is a cop, then I might give a passing motorcycle a few flashes).

I just don't buy the whole thing about them being "blinding" during the day.

 

[bramfrank]

It is hard to mistake a modulator for normal wild-assed flashing. The pulses are regular and the light kind of flickers.

 

[Bounce]

exactly, but the people i was referencing earlier were adamant about they were going to pull out in front of anyone they saw with a modulator (like i said, they melted down).

 

[rangerray]

In all my travels, I have never heard of the 'flashing high beams = yielding of right away'. So just how common is it?

I'd say that it's most common at 4-way intersections, like somebody else mentioned. The other times that I see it being used the most is when one driver flashes to signal another friver that is entering from a side road and in this instance it is much more common when the speed is low. For example, on my way home from work there is a section of road near the interstate junction where there are a couple of convenience stores, gas stations, and motels are located and the speed limit is reduced to 45 mph. I very often am doing less than the speed limit in this area because there is so much traffic entering the road from these buinesses. One day I was doing a cautious 35 MPH or so and I flashed my headlight to hih beam momentarily because there were maybe 4 or 5 vehicles sitting on ready waiting for me to pass. The vehicle closest to me waved at me first, as if to say "thanks" then proceeded to pull into my path. Not a big deal, I had plenty of time to react, yadda, yadda, but he misinterpreted what my flash meant. So, I just don't flash my headlight anymore. It would have been better for me that day to simply switch to high beam and leave it there. Now if I'd have been doing, say 50 MPH through this same area, would the other driver have interpreted my flash differently? Probably, but who knows.

 

[Bounce]

Of course you never used it to signal "go ahead" but, it doesn't really matter what it means to you. It's what it means to the other driver.

actually, it's what it means in any traffic codes. if the other person is ignorant or stupid, then you have to deal with them like every other ignorant or stupid person you meet every other day of the week. ride defensively.

You're stopped at a 4-way stop in that awkward moment when you both get there at the same time--when you look at each other to see who's gonna go. He flashes his brights. What do you do?

nothing until i know what he's going to do. ride defensively.

When you are approaching an intersection and there is a car poised to turn left, you flash your brights. What does he do?

who cares? i may modulate my headlights in the day, but i don't flash them at other operators to tell them i'm waiving my right of way. i actually wave them through with hand/arm signals. ride defensively.

Why send a confusing signal if you are going straight through?

why be confused? be educated. ride defensively.

Why send any signal? They're not paying attention anyhow--it gives you a false sense of security and takes your attention from covering your brake and watching their front wheels. Leave your brights on or not, it doesn't make a difference, except it annoys people at night.

because it's within the framework of the traffic code. if they are ignorant or stupid then it's no different than 60% of the rest of the operators on the road. ride defensively.

did you get this bent when they made the "right turn on red after stop" changes to the code? why not? think of all the ignorant or stupid operators who might react unexpectedly to anything you do that is within the framework of existing traffic code (just like modulators)! is it your burden to NOT do things that are allowed or is it theirs to learn and adjust?

in the mean time, ride defensively. there are a lot of ignorant or stupid operators out there.

 

[Scythian]

As someone else mentioned, this seems to be mostly (only?) true in intersections, certainly not with on coming traffic about to turn left in front of you.

Oh, certainly not.... Why I'd bet my life that the dope sitting there in the left turn lane knows this and I'd just start flashing away....

Again, it doesn't matter what you know, it matters what the dope sitting in the cage in the left turn lane knows.

You have no idea what he knows or what he thinks flashing your brights at him means, so why confuse him into doing something stupid and killing you?

Absolutely. I'm with you. I'm just saying when it is that people use the flashing headlight intentionally to say "yeah, go ahead". I do not want to give any cagers any possible reason to misinterpret my intentions. No headlight modulators here. Just solid high beams all day long (unless there really is a cop, then I might give a passing motorcycle a few flashes).

I just don't buy the whole thing about them being "blinding" during the day.

I'm wif U!

However, the nitwit from "twowheelnitwit" has a point about the theory of 'relative brightness': Against a bright background, lighter colors wash out and become less noticible to the human eye.

I've been watching this here in the Southwest: against the light desert background and stark sunlight, the riders wearing dark colors on dark bikes really 'pop-out'. Even blaze orange and yellow don't stand out as well against the light desert and roads as the dark colors.

Back east, or in more wooded places with dark vegetation, yeah, wear bright colors to stand out, but out here in NM? Wear dark colors or black to be noticed.

If you don't believe it, look at the light-colored Desert Camo the US forces went to in the ME--the dark woodland camouflage stood out too much against the desert!

 

[Scythian]

who cares? i may modulate my headlights in the day, but i don't flash them at other operators to tell them i'm waiving my right of way. i actually wave them through with hand/arm signals. ride defensively.

QUOTE

Why send a confusing signal if you are going straight through?

why be confused? be educated. ride defensively.

Again, it's not about what you know, or how well you know the code, it's about how the other guy interprets you signal. Just 'cuz a signal means a certain thing to you doesn't mean it means the same thing to anyone else.

So why send a signal when no action is required on the other guy's part other than staying put?

If you are truly riding defensively, your safety isn't dependent on anyone else's actions or interpretations of your actions.

Headlight modulators, at best, do nothing, at worst they give a false sense of security. Intentionally flashing your brights may actually lure someone into pulling out in front of you and get you killed.

 

[bramfrank]

Headlight modulators, at best, do nothing, at worst they give a false sense of security. Intentionally flashing your brights may actually lure someone into pulling out in front of you and get you killed.

Disagree.

A operating moduator looks more like a police vehicle than anything else when viewed by oncoming traffic - and, I've never seen a filament headlight be 'blinding' during daylight hours. A regularly pulsing transition from off to 'blinding' will get attention big time - if a cage sees that and would still enter the lane, then he really needs to get his head adjusted before he gets someone else and possibly also himself killed.

I've always felt that there is a need for an IQ component to licensing.

 

[bandito]

Interesting comments on the fact that when all cages have dims on in the daylight the motorcycles need to have the brights on to be seen. In europe some countries have mandatory low beams for cars. Here in France it was proposed as law about 2 years ago, and there was a study done showing that the motorcycle accident rate went up!! :blink: We have a MC activist group called "FFMC" which stands for French Federation of pissed-off motorcyclist who fought this in parlaiment, and the law didn't pass. (they also fight for things like eradicating dangerous speedbumps/traffic circles etc and the de-tuning laws). Kind of lends credit to the running on high beams if the cages all have lights on. BTW I run on low beams during the day, but if I come to a traffic situaiton where some cage might turn in front of me, I don't flash them just in case this can be mis-interpreted; I turn the high beam on and leave it until I pass them. I figure if you are high all the time you have no where to go when you need that extra burst of visibility.

Ride safe

 

[Scythian]

Headlight modulators, at best, do nothing, at worst they give a false sense of security. Intentionally flashing your brights may actually lure someone into pulling out in front of you and get you killed.

Disagree.

A operating moduator looks more like a police vehicle than anything else when viewed by oncoming traffic - and, I've never seen a filament headlight be 'blinding' during daylight hours. A regularly pulsing transition from off to 'blinding' will get attention big time - if a cage sees that and would still enter the lane, then he really needs to get his head adjusted before he gets someone else and possibly also himself killed.

I've always felt that there is a need for an IQ component to licensing.

Saying the modulator looks like a police vehicle is cold comfort: people get wiggy and pull out in front of police vehicles all the time--especially police motorcycles. In fact, I think people try to make their turn or enter the lane intentionally before the police vehicle gets there so they don't get tied up in the traffic snarl!

"Oh shit, here comes a cop car--I better make my move quick before traffic gets f'ed up!" POW!

 

[bramfrank]

Saying the modulator looks like a police vehicle is cold comfort: people get wiggy and pull out in front of police vehicles all the time--especially police motorcycles. In fact, I think people try to make their turn or enter the lane intentionally before the police vehicle gets there so they don't get tied up in the traffic snarl!
"Oh shit, here comes a cop car--I better make my move quick before traffic gets f'ed up!" POW!

Do you have any supporting documentation for this observation? Or is it just gut feel? I've had modulators for years and only once in all that time has a left-turner ever crossed my path.

More often then not, people move out of my way . . . quickly.

 

[Bustanut joker]

If you are truly riding defensively, your safety isn't dependent on anyone else's actions or interpretations of your actions.

A big ol' set of ......

FUZZY BALLS ..........................................................................................

..................................................

To this attitude.

:jester:

 

[Scythian]

Do you have any supporting documentation for this observation? Or is it just gut feel? I've had modulators for years and only once in all that time has a left-turner ever crossed my path.

It's based on observation and anecdotes from motorcop pals here in NM.

I noticed it the other day. I was in the left hand turn lane, and there was an ambulance coming up in back of me in the regular lanes and I'll be damned if the guy in the opposing left turn lane didn't try to beat the ambulance through the intersection! He turned in front of the ambulance, but misjudged its speed (of course) and the meat-wagon had to apply a little brakes to let him through....

I've also listened to the near constant bitching from my motorcop pals about people turning in front of them--they are incredulous that anyone would ignore their sirens and flashing lights.

That's when I came up with the theory that people are reacting to the lights and trying to 'beat them through the intersections'. My observations so far support that theory.

 

[Fred W]

Wow. This really does approach religion.

 

[Scythian]

Wow. This really does approach religion.

Naaaah.... It's more important: It's a matter of life and death! :lol:

I think we all have mindsets or superstitions that we adopt in hopes of keeping ourselves alive out here.

For myself, I believe I have a bubble of space around me as big as my stopping distance in the front, as wide as my swerve ability at that speed, and as deep as the ability of the car in back of me to stop, at prevailing speed.

It's my job to keep track of everything that's moving into, or out of that bubble. That bubble changes shape as speeds increase or conditions change. If I slam on my brakes to protect the front of the bubble, I gotta check the mirrors for anything attempting to impinge into the back of the bubble.

As far as other drivers go, my preference in traffic is to keep a obstacle, or another car between any lateral threat and my space bubble. I like to have a car lead me on the left through an intersection, but at a distance that my 'blocking car' can swerve into my lane without hitting my bubble and any left-turn dipshit can't get between the other car and my bubble at that speed.

I'd prefer other drivers simply never see me. Truly defensive riding means never having to rely on another driver's actions or reactions to you. You gotta strive to keep yourself in position that, your safety never depends on what any other ****-up does around you. Let 'em kill themselves without you in the way....

Just let them keep fucking up just like I'm not there. I consider it a 'close call' when a driver has to wait for me to clear the intersection to make his left hand turn--'cuz I had to rely on him seeing me!

Anytime a driver delays his action, or has to react to you at all, is a close call.

I don't want anything blinking, sparkling, hooting or flashing on my motorcycle, it will make the dumbasses react weird instead of just following their usual dumbass course of least resistance.

You other drivers on the road: you just drive like I'm not here 'cuz you will anyhow!

 

[Fred W]

Wow. This really does approach religion.

Naaaah.... It's more important: It's a matter of life and death! :lol:

I think we all have mindsets or superstitions that we adopt in hopes of keeping ourselves alive out here.

For myself, I believe I have a bubble of space around me as big as my stopping distance in the front, as wide as my swerve ability at that speed, and as deep as the ability of the car in back of me to stop, at prevailing speed.

It's my job to keep track of everything that's moving into, or out of that bubble. That bubble changes shape as speeds increase or conditions change. If I slam on my brakes to protect the front of the bubble, I gotta check the mirrors for anything attempting to impinge into the back of the bubble.

As far as other drivers go, my preference in traffic is to keep a obstacle, or another car between any lateral threat and my space bubble. I like to have a car lead me on the left through an intersection, but at a distance that my 'blocking car' can swerve into my lane without hitting my bubble and any left-turn dipshit can't get between the other car and my bubble at that speed.

I'd prefer other drivers simply never see me. Truly defensive riding means never having to rely on another driver's actions or reactions to you. You gotta strive to keep yourself in position that, your safety never depends on what any other ****-up does around you. Let 'em kill themselves without you in the way....

Just let them keep fucking up just like I'm not there. I consider it a 'close call' when a driver has to wait for me to clear the intersection to make his left hand turn--'cuz I had to rely on him seeing me!

Anytime a driver delays his action, or has to react to you at all, is a close call.

I don't want anything blinking, sparkling, hooting or flashing on my motorcycle, it will make the dumbasses react weird instead of just following their usual dumbass course of least resistance.

You other drivers on the road: you just drive like I'm not here 'cuz you will anyhow!

I prefer to ride in less traffic than you whenever possible. I do not commute on a motorcycle (because I do not commute at all). When I do have to ride in traffic (due to routing) my antennae are raised on super high alert.

I am a nerd. Yes.

I do not want to get hit by some cell phone talkin', soccer kid droppin, SUV. I don't see how that would advance my cause in the least...

 

[Bustanut joker]

Geez Fred, There's only 1000 people in New Hampshire. They all on the same road at the same time???

:jester:

 

[Bounce]

Headlight modulators, at best, do nothing, at worst they give a false sense of security. Intentionally flashing your brights may actually lure someone into pulling out in front of you and get you killed.

this is where we disagree. my position is based on personal experience and not supposition or keyboard skills. at worst they do nothing. typically they draw attention to the bike. often i have seen a vehicle stop that was about to pull out (because they didn't see me and i was prepping for avoidance action).

you're cup-half-empty position isn't supported by the experiences of people who actually use them.

 

[Bounce]

Saying the modulator looks like a police vehicle is cold comfort: people get wiggy and pull out in front of police vehicles all the time--especially police motorcycles. In fact, I think people try to make their turn or enter the lane intentionally before the police vehicle gets there so they don't get tied up in the traffic snarl!
"Oh shit, here comes a cop car--I better make my move quick before traffic gets f'ed up!" POW!

Do you have any supporting documentation for this observation? Or is it just gut feel? I've had modulators for years and only once in all that time has a left-turner ever crossed my path.

More often then not, people move out of my way . . . quickly.

of course not. like that other guy i was describing, he'll say anything to shore up his personal assumptions. he has no personal experience with modulators and everything is totally in his head about how others will react. he'll continue to escellate the hyperbole until his head explodes. i gave in and attempted to explain things based on personal experience with modulators (in every state in the lower 48). i should have known better.

I noticed it the other day. I was in the left hand turn lane, and there was an ambulance coming up in back of me in the regular lanes and I'll be damned if the guy in the opposing left turn lane didn't try to beat the ambulance through the intersection! He turned in front of the ambulance, but misjudged its speed (of course) and the meat-wagon had to apply a little brakes to let him through. I've also listened to the near constant bitching from my motorcop pals about people turning in front of them--they are incredulous that anyone would ignore their sirens and flashing lights. That's when I came up with the theory that people are reacting to the lights and trying to 'beat them through the intersections'. My observations so far support that theory.

some conclusion. has anyone taken the time to explain occam's razor to you?

As far as other drivers go, my preference in traffic is to keep a obstacle, or another car between any lateral threat and my space bubble. I like to have a car lead me on the left through an intersection, but at a distance that my 'blocking car' can swerve into my lane without hitting my bubble and any left-turn dipshit can't get between the other car and my bubble at that speed.

nice to have that luxury. i guess that comes from living in a state with a population that's about the same as the metroplex i live in.

 

[Fred W]

Geez Fred, There's only 1000 people in New Hampshire. They all on the same road at the same time???
:jester:

Ha ha, I know that is a common perception. But looky here

New Hampster is actually higher than average in terms of pop. density. And it's all concentrated in the south (where I live) and along our tiny coastline to the east. So guess which directions I usually point my front wheel when I head out on a ride?