Rotella T6 causing clutch drag and hard shifting?

[HotRodZilla]

I JUST changed my oil and have less than a mile on my '07 since the change. I used the conventional Rotella 15/40. I'll take it for a ride and see if anything is different.FWIW, my bike HATED the Castrol 20/50 I put in it a couple years ago. It was MC specific, but my FJR didn't like it for some reason.

HotRod, what did your bike (HATE) not like about the Castrol 20/50?...

I donno...Remember, I had a service plan on my bike for the first three years, so I was used to it just feeling "better" after a PM. It was always smooth and shifted nicely.

My first self oil change was with that Castrol. I was very proud of myself as I got it on sale, it was MC specific and it was 20-50. My bike just never seemed to run like it did when it was full of the Yamalube. The shifting was notchy and it just wasn't as smooth as it was before or has been since. Every change since then, except one, has been the Rotella with a 1/4 quart of the STP ZDDP added. Another was with a semisynthetic I got on sale at CycleGear. Never had the FJR repeat its Castrol behavior.

I know it sounds stupid, but that's what happened. I also know Skooter disagrees, but if I run the standard plugs over 8k, my FJR vibrates and generally runs like crap. I have iridium plugs in it now, looking for extended mileage.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I think that there are plenty of subtle, and some not so subtle differences in the bikes. I don't mean just different Gen or even year models, I mean bike to bike differences. I have long since learned the folly of "Well MY bike does this so they ALL must do this."

If we really wanted to get ourselves confused and even aggravated we would refer to Patriot's bike, Isabella. He has a rod knocking and he ran...Wait for it...Rotella T6 Synthetic.

To throw more crap into the game, the Rotella Synthetic is 5W-40. The conventional Rotella is 15W-40. I can absolutely tell the difference between the two Rotellas in my Duramax. With conventional Rotella, it is hard to even hear that it is a diesel. With the synthetic Rotella, everyone can hear that it is a diesel. Noise is just a small but obvious part of the differences.

 

[Patriot]

If we really wanted to get ourselves confused and even aggravated we would refer to Patriot's bike, Isabella. He has a rod knocking and he ran...Wait for it...Rotella T6 Synthetic.

you promised me you'd keep this secret...BASTARD !!!

 

[twilli01]

Conclusion:

I am the original poster and offer my conclusion. During the 7 or 8 days the T6 was in the crankcase I rode it to work several times. I observed the following anomalies: Difficulty shifting from 5th to 4th. Pronounced CLUNK going from Neutral to 1st. Clutch dragging for 1-2 seconds all the time. It took much pressure on the shifter to get it out of 5th.

It is my observation these anomalies were first noticed immediately after changing my oil from Yamalube to T6 synthetic. And I suggested in my original post the dragging clutch and clunky shifting were caused by the T6.

Today I bought 4 quarts of Amsoil motorcycle oil for $20 per quart (Canada...) I dumped the Rotella T6 with about 200 miles on it and put in the Amsoil motorcycle oil. Within ONE BLOCK I noticed improved shifting. What I did not expect was the huge reduction in vibration at highway speeds and low RPM riding (5th at 40-50 MPH) The Amsoil completely resolved all shifting clunkiness now shifting like butter. The engine character on the highway was amazingly smooth. Additionally the clutch drag was gone. Completely gone. The bike went back to perfect. Let me say this again. The clutch dragging is gone.

My judgments: The dragging clutch and shifting clunkiness were caused by the Rotella T6. The Amsoil fixed the clutch / shifting problems and provided an unexpected reduction in vibration. I can not overstate the effect of rolling on the throttle at 70,80,90 MPH and have the engine respond with pure vibration free power. I was looking for improved shifting. The sewing machine smoothness at 80-90MPH I was not expecting but the change was very, very noticeable. The Amsoil far exceeded my expectations. The change was dramatic.

I am a 50 year old engineering project manager and have owned many bikes and ridden many miles. There is no doubt in my mind there are noticeable differences between oils.

I am not so sure how "pointless" this post is. So I'll go back to reading but not contributing.

 

[HaulinAshe]

My judgments: The dragging clutch and shifting clunkiness were caused by the Rotella T6. The Amsoil fixed the clutch / shifting problems and provided an unexpected reduction in vibration. I can not overstate the effect of rolling on the throttle at 70,80,90 MPH and have the engine respond with pure vibration free power. I was looking for improved shifting. The sewing machine smoothness at 80-90MPH I was not expecting but the change was very, very noticeable. The Amsoil far exceeded my expectations. The change was dramatic.

With many Yamaha wet clutch bikes, I have had experiences with difficult shifting and/or clutch dragging when using Rotella or Mobil-1 in colder weather. Switching to a more conventional motorcycle-specific oil usually solved the problem for me. On my race bikes I ran Yamalube in winter and Rotella in summer.

Now days I stick with Valvoline 4-Stroke 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil purchased from Advance Auto Parts or AutoZone. Reasonable price, wet clutch safe, and withstands all the temperature extremes from FJR below freezing to YZ450F motocross on a sea-level summer afternoon.

IMHO nobody should be calling BS on this problem. I've seen it personally too many times. It's subtle, but it's real. It's real enough to feel in the bike, and motorcycles are as much about feel as mechanics.

 

[900gc]

Conclusion:
I am the original poster and offer my conclusion. During the 7 or 8 days the T6 was in the crankcase I rode it to work several times. I observed the following anomalies: Difficulty shifting from 5th to 4th. Pronounced CLUNK going from Neutral to 1st. Clutch dragging for 1-2 seconds all the time. It took much pressure on the shifter to get it out of 5th.

It is my observation these anomalies were first noticed immediately after changing my oil from Yamalube to T6 synthetic. And I suggested in my original post the dragging clutch and clunky shifting were caused by the T6.

Today I bought 4 quarts of Amsoil motorcycle oil for $20 per quart (Canada...) I dumped the Rotella T6 with about 200 miles on it and put in the Amsoil motorcycle oil. Within ONE BLOCK I noticed improved shifting. What I did not expect was the huge reduction in vibration at highway speeds and low RPM riding (5th at 40-50 MPH) The Amsoil completely resolved all shifting clunkiness now shifting like butter. The engine character on the highway was amazingly smooth. Additionally the clutch drag was gone. Completely gone. The bike went back to perfect. Let me say this again. The clutch dragging is gone.

My judgments: The dragging clutch and shifting clunkiness were caused by the Rotella T6. The Amsoil fixed the clutch / shifting problems and provided an unexpected reduction in vibration. I can not overstate the effect of rolling on the throttle at 70,80,90 MPH and have the engine respond with pure vibration free power. I was looking for improved shifting. The sewing machine smoothness at 80-90MPH I was not expecting but the change was very, very noticeable. The Amsoil far exceeded my expectations. The change was dramatic.

I am a 50 year old engineering project manager and have owned many bikes and ridden many miles. There is no doubt in my mind there are noticeable differences between oils.

I am not so sure how "pointless" this post is. So I'll go back to reading but not contributing.

I don't find this thread pointless at all in spite of being in NERPT. What I find interesting is how/why the same oil in one FJR seems to work fine but in another, not so fine. Assuming like labeled oils are formulated the same in all parts of the country, then the difference must lie with the bikes. What then is different from bike to bike that causes such a disparity? Are manufacturing tolerances to blame, different gear vendors, etc. Yamaha uses from year to year or even bike to bike?

https://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/viewall.html

https://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/viewall.html

Interesting oil article. No doubt that additive package chemistry varies all over from brand to brand. I'm wondering if certain bikes "prefer" a certain additive package in a particular oil for some kind of mechanical reason?

 

[SouthernCruizer]

update on my bike....after another 250 miles running the motorcycle specific Honda Pro 10W40, I am happy to report that the shifting on my '13 is now 100% again. Took a while for the 5th to 4th shift and the neutral to 1st shift to return to super smooth status, but its there now. I love the "snick" from gear to gear. Very smooth gearbox!

 

[bwv]

Shit! ... NEPRT already??? I thought i was going to be able to contribute useful info...

I'll keep trying...

I only have 270 miles left before I do the Dino T to my Feej...

or... T minus 270 if you will

I will say, now that i have sooo much experience with the FJR (all 330 miles of it) that this clutch is "out of the box" a little resistant to "let go" on initial shift into first, and when downshifting. A small grab and blip fixes that though...and I am assuming newness is a factor. This was, as HaulinAshe said above, more evident during my 120mile ride this weekend, which started out at 28F and ended around 38.

I'm still on the OEM oil til ~600.. which I hope goes by this week.

I gotta find a thread about how to ride this bike better... I didnt feel like i was goin that fast, but my buddy with the connie said my pipes were almost touchin...Hmmmm....

If you get a chance... go here:

https://goo.gl/maps/Dts6J

 

[Fred W]

First off, my '05 has always kerchunked when putting it in 1st gear from neutral unless I do one of two things: Either start the bike with the clutch pulled in (in gear or in neutral, doesn't seem to matter) or pull the clutch in and briskly blip the throttle to break the clutch free. In either of those situations it will snick into gear.

My take on this is that the transmission side of the clutch just continues to spin along freely even though the clutch has fully disengaged it has a small amount of friction. This may be because there is more than the normal amount of spinning inertia or maybe the bearings are so good there isn't enough friction there to overcome what little drag there is in the clutch. Maybe if I waited for a really long time after pulling the clutch in it would eventually slow itself down, but I'm too impatient for that nonsense!

I've tried using many different oils and none have had any impact on the above situation. In all cases the bike has always shifted fine between gears.

Also, Rte 30 around the Pepacton Reservoir is always a fun time. :thumbsup:

 

[SouthernCruizer]

First off, my '05 has always kerchunked when putting it in 1st gear from neutral unless I do one of two things: Either start the bike with the clutch pulled in (in gear or in neutral, doesn't seem to matter) or pull the clutch in and briskly blip the throttle to break the clutch free. In either of those situations it will snick into gear.
My take on this is that the transmission side of the clutch just continues to spin along freely even though the clutch has fully disengaged it has a small amount of friction. This may be because there is more than the normal amount of spinning inertia or maybe the bearings are so good there isn't enough friction there to overcome what little drag there is in the clutch. Maybe if I waited for a really long time after pulling the clutch in it would eventually slow itself down, but I'm too impatient for that nonsense!

I've tried using many different oils and none have had any impact on the above situation. In all cases the bike has always shifted fine between gears.

Also, Rte 30 around the Pepacton Reservoir is always a fun time.

I'm a big believer in "if it aint broke, dont fix it"...with that in mind, it's honda pro 10W40 for the feejer, and Rotella T for my other 2 bikes until something changes. Ride on!

 

[HotRodZilla]

I thought I would add to this thread before it gets too old. Remember I did an oil change the other day? Used my normal Rotella 15-40 with STP ZDDP added?

Put a couple hundred miles on the bike this week. Absolutely NO shifting issues. Actually, she's running and shifting great.

FWIW...

 

[bwv]

Well.. i was a little late, but at 707 miles I installed a new yamaha oil filter and 4.25qts of Rotella T 15W40 motor oil (conventional)

I did not get to ride it.

I did warm it up so the oil circulated throughout, and turned it of.

Also changed final drive oil

I'll get some miles on it asap and report back as to clutch behavior

 

[bwv]

717miles (T+10) and no ill effects yet

 

[Hornet Pilot]

Rotella T6 with STP works for me!

 

[LAF]

Risoline is really the snizzle for me. No shifting issues, and never learches forward as it did with 0 miles on it. Of course at 0 miles I put a Barnett clutch pack in and a Scorpion spring conversion. Had the oem clutch out soaking and got a wild hair. Not a good bang for the buck except the Scorpion Spring Conversion is a thing of beauty never to be seen. It does have a nice pull and engagement, and as I said it shifts smoothly at any time with a slight clunk to first, which I think "they all do that".

I can not say enough about this additive and I use it a 10% instead of the 20% they recommend. Since I am a Mobile 1 addict and get it on sale with a Mobile 1 filter for 32.99 less 5.00 coupon I will run it till the motor blows. I do think the Zinc is the key on the clutch plates since a "splash" oil bath on the clutch is very minimal on the FJR. I think the zinc gets there in small quantity and stays there.

https://barsproducts.com/catalog/view/22-engine-oil-supplement-with-zinc-treatment-4401

 

[Fred W]

ZDDP is more for protecting high pressure interfaces like the gears themselves and the cam lobes rather than for any frictional properties.

But whatever works for ya', just keep on doing that!!

 

[08FJR4ME]

Just tried Delo 400 and seems to be good. One thing I did notice on the bottles is that none of them say energy conserving anymore. They are using some other term which at this time I cannot remember for the life of me.

Sucks getting old.

Dave

 

[bwv]

T+98 miles

No change in clutch feel or engagement.

Downshifts feel slightly smother than before.

regular rotella T 15w40, no additives, new oil filter.

 

[LAF]

ZDDP is more for protecting high pressure interfaces like the gears themselves and the cam lobes rather than for any frictional properties.
But whatever works for ya', just keep on doing that!!

Everything I have read about oil is that the Zinc is very important for cling and pressure properties of oil. Also that Zinc is going and has gone the wayside in most oils. The cling and pressure properties is exactly what clutch plates and steels need in the FJR. Since the oil bath of the clutch is not as good as other bikes, what you get there, you want to stay there, hence ZDDP.

Maybe not right to you, but I will keep doing that as you suggested.

 

[SLK50]

ZDDP is more for protecting high pressure interfaces like the gears themselves and the cam lobes rather than for any frictional properties.
But whatever works for ya', just keep on doing that!!

Everything I have read about oil is that the Zinc is very important for cling and pressure properties of oil. Also that Zinc is going and has gone the wayside in most oils. The cling and pressure properties is exactly what clutch plates and steels need in the FJR. Since the oil bath of the clutch is not as good as other bikes, what you get there, you want to stay there, hence ZDDP.

Maybe not right to you, but I will keep doing that as you suggested.

I'd like to clarify something: It's the residual build-up of oil additives on clutch plates the leads to slippage and eventual failure.A clutch is in an oil bath for cooling, not lubrication.

"Friction Modifiers" fill in the low spots on clutch plates reducing their effectiveness.

ZDDP is effective in high-pressure metal-against-metal situations such as transmission gear teeth or cams on followers, etc.