running bad (feeling blessed)...limped home (walking on air)

[James Burleigh]

I think this is your solution:

https://ichinda.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2013-Yamaha-FJR1300A-Super-Sports-Tourer-specifications.jpg

 

[gumba]

Have a friend that has worked in the mc (small engine) repair business all his life. He tells of the hundreds of customers that suspected bad gas only a very few were so. Bad gas always the suspect - seldom the cause.

 

[dcarver]

Then again, I recall Duff had similar issues at WFO in Golden..

After hours of discussion...

Water in Gas.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Mike, I am sorry about your problems. I did not realize that your engine was actually "low mileage" compared to the bike. I hate to be the one to tell you but... You know I have ridden behind you a few times in the last few months. When you take off you usually gas it pretty good. I notice an obvious and considerable amount of oil smoke for about 3 seconds, depending on how hard you take off. I thought you knew about this and I expected it since I thought you had a gazillion miles on that motor. It puffs out enough oil smoke that Pants and I actually talked about it one time. The only time I have seen it is from a dead stop and hard acceleration.

I sincerely hope your issue is minor and not at all related to my observations. I hope you are quickly and cheaply back on the road soon. If not, does Extrememarine still have his Gen2 motor from his wrecked bike?

 

[majicmaker]

I think this is your solution:
https://ichinda.co.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/2013-Yamaha-FJR1300A-Super-Sports-Tourer-specifications.jpg

That's cold blooded Mr JB. Funny as Hell but, Cold Blooded! Just Sayin' )

 

[Denver_FJR]

Bad gas? Based on a 275 mile trip, guessing you just filled up at some point. Maybe you got some bad/water contaminated petrol, but I doubt it.

TPS going south? Yeah, symptoms kinda fit and easy enough to check through DIAG.

Vacuum leak? Plausible, but I doubt it's one of the TPS ports. I've run mine with one port open just to see the effect, and it was no where near that bad.

CCT slipped a tooth? Could be, but 15k miles without problems, I would put this low on list.

Fuel delivery problem? Fits symptoms of clogged injectors or filter but hard for us home-types to check. Those two center plugs look incredibly clean. What's up with that?

 

[wfooshee]

Two center plugs on one coil, two outer plugs on the other. Is that pointing us where we need to look? There's spark, and then there's SPARK!!!

Check the diag menu for TPS, just to be sure.

 

[lnewlf]

The horn??

 

[FJR Flyer]

My first thought, did you check for any codes flagged in the DIAG.

TPS going south? Yeah, symptoms kinda fit and easy enough to check through DIAG.

 

[Canadian FJR]

I suspect that there may be some corrosion inthe wire connectors but please keep us posted. I hope you get this resolved quickly.

Canadian FJR

 

[BobbyBlue]

Second the connector corrosion, had similar symptoms a couple years back. All 3 under tank electrical connections corroded as hell, cleaned up with various contact cleaners and descaled with small finger-nail files. I dont have quite the humidity you do, but it prolly needs to be done again about every 2 yrs or so. If not a vacuum leak for sure, i'd clean these up and see waz up. Hope it helps Mike.

Bobby

 

[WBill]

Maybe a mouse go into the works? Happened to me. WBill

 

[BILL P]

check air temp. sensor @ rear of air box .just take the seat off.

Bill P

 

[Patriot]

thanx for all the replies...if a failed coil (I do have spark) or a failed TBS sensor...woudn't I have an illuminated "check engine" light. What problems would make it come on...mine has not come on

so, another saga of isabella's misbehaving is as follows:
riding home from round trip day of 275miles, humming away on the interstate with AVCC set to 75 and near my home, I see the bike laboring and losing speed on overpass hills that normally are no problem. As I approach my exit, I pull in clutch and engine kills...will not idle; won't run below 2000 rpms

So limp home last few miles and pull into garage. A little later, try to start it...takes like a bunch of throttle, it runs, but no idle and wants to kill below 2000 rpm.

Next day when cold, I raise tank...looking around, don't see anything out of ordinary like damage wiring or plugs, vac hose disconnected, etc. With trepidation, I pulled the plugs, and without a compression tester, sealed each hole with my hand/fingers, and hand was "puffed" off and away. Then I check that each plug was firing by connecting to the wire and grounding to valve cover, spinning the engine.

So now what? Gee, could the cam chain had jumped a tooth...have no idea why as it's the new CCT since the valves were checked. This engine has 70k miles with valve check at 55k and no adjustment needed.

I guess I really do need to do a proper compression check with gauge...

depressed in Nawlins'

Mike da Patriot

<appropriate pissed off smiley>

Which hole did that funky looking plug come out of, or does the pic make it look worse than actual?
Is the engine missing?

--G

the pic is accurate as shown...plugs do look diff among them,,,

two center plugs look browner than two outer plugs...but have spark to all

the bike is low on power...yeah, could say it's at half power

but all have spark, and I'm hoping normal compression...only did the hand covering the hole method of checking

Were two of the plugs darker? If so, maybe one of the coils has crashed. i couldn't tell if only one was discolored or two. Just a guess.
One coil supplies voltage to cylinder 1 and 4, the other to 2 and 3.

the plugs in the silver pan are in order of cylinders from left to right...so the clean ones are 2 center which I assume is one of the coils...dirty ones are two outside cylinders... especially far left cylinder...but but but, there is spark on all four plugs

plugs changed 5k miles ago

bike has worked fine till getting off that exit

Do you have a Power Commander installed? If so, try unplugging it and going back to the stock configuration.

nope

Mike,
Did you try starting it cold?

The reason I ask is because your symptom sounds a lot like what happens when the TPS goes bad. Runs like crap and won't idle when hot. Magically works fine when cold.

Good luck in your troubleshooting

did not, Fred

I'll try the cold start...I have the "for Gen I, '04 TPS recall letter somewhere...since the symptoms relating to that recall said it was an issue with changing alitude while riding and I live in the flat south and my occassion trips to the smokies riding my ass off on the Cherohala with no issues, I never had it replaced

Just an idea.I had almost the same problem last Fall. Bike stalled turning on to an off-ramp (luckily down hill). Eventually it re-started, but wouldn't run under 2,000 rpm. It was pissing rain so I limped home and parked the bike in my shop to dry off. Same situation next morning. I remembered reading an old post https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/22734-main-ecu-connector-contamination/?do=findComment&comment=268059 , lifted the tank and found the connectors were green with corrosion. Cleaned them and sealed with dialectric grease, re-started the bike - no more problem!

Al.

yes, I had an electrical plug turn intermittent maybe 25k mi ago when the dash would go out by itself and then hit a bump and back it came...WFooshe told me to check those connectors just forward of the valve cover/cooling rail...wiggling the plugs without disconnecting fixed the problem. I'm afraid how brittle they've become to have unplugged. Plus my fat fingers, big hand can't easily get in there. I'm come to hate those lil tab keepers/locks on the electrical plugs.

WFooshe fixed my idle adjustment screw by taking out the air box. He unpluged/plugged the ECU connector, but nothing indicates a problem there

EDIT: will check air temp sensor wire on air box

My #1 guess would be a vacuum leak somewhere.
My #2 guess is:

I had a similar poor running issue after a CCT replacement. Although it was not proven beyond any doubt, it is believed that the performance issues were related to an oxygen sensor wire pinched between the case and the timing cover. Insulation was split allowing the sensor to ground to the chassis giving a false reading.

CCT replace a long time & miles ago with new version when my (very good, independent shop) did the valve check

all has been well with no noises etc. I had the AVCC go intermittend maybe 5k miles ago. The problem was traced to bad pad to servo electrical plug. Unplug/plug fixed it and I sprayed some electrical cleaner in there. AVCC is working and has worked fine.

Best wishes Mikee.
Had you recently performed any maintenance?

oil change maybe 1000mi ago...change spark plugs maybe 6k miles ago with iridium

Mike, I am sorry about your problems. I did not realize that your engine was actually "low mileage" compared to the bike. I hate to be the one to tell you but... You know I have ridden behind you a few times in the last few months. When you take off you usually gas it pretty good. I notice an obvious and considerable amount of oil smoke for about 3 seconds, depending on how hard you take off. I thought you knew about this and I expected it since I thought you had a gazillion miles on that motor. It puffs out enough oil smoke that Pants and I actually talked about it one time. The only time I have seen it is from a dead stop and hard acceleration.
I sincerely hope your issue is minor and not at all related to my observations. I hope you are quickly and cheaply back on the road soon. If not, does Extrememarine still have his Gen2 motor from his wrecked bike?

uses very little oil between 5k frequency oil changes

Two center plugs on one coil, two outer plugs on the other. Is that pointing us where we need to look? There's spark, and then there's SPARK!!!
Check the diag menu for TPS, just to be sure.

have never delt into diag menu or codes...I'm sure there are a lot of them in there for different things...tip over, once I forgot to re connect the coil that the AVCC wire goes to...ran terrible (obviously on 2 cylinders) with check engine light on.

this happened in my garage and was fixed immediately. Bike ran for maybe 30 seconds, restarted, same symptom and 15seconds later remembered I had left that wire disconnected. It's the coil on the right and behind a black panel to the rear.

Re connected and all went to good running...that was maybe 2k miles ago.

My first thought, did you check for any codes flagged in the DIAG.

TPS going south? Yeah, symptoms kinda fit and easy enough to check through DIAG.

never have and don't know how to check codes...TPS never replaced even though there was a recall

Second the connector corrosion, had similar symptoms a couple years back. All 3 under tank electrical connections corroded as hell, cleaned up with various contact cleaners and descaled with small finger-nail files. I dont have quite the humidity you do, but it prolly needs to be done again about every 2 yrs or so. If not a vacuum leak for sure, i'd clean these up and see waz up. Hope it helps Mike.
Bobby

Fred et al: I'll put the plugs and wires back and start it while ice cold...should I clear the codes first?

yeah, thought of electrical but afraid to fool with those brittle 8 plus yrs old suckers. And that hot environment makes me evern more afraid.

still taking suggestions...guess I should figure out how to check codes...maybe I should clear them all, run the bike in my garage till 1 bar on temp gauge...kill it and then check for (latest) code

I guess also should get the courage to try to clean those 4? connectors in front of the cooling rail/valve cover.

<pouts and shivers>

OH WAIT, IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE CAR TIRE !!!

 

[Fred W]

thanx for all the replies...if a failed coil (I do have spark) or a failed TBS sensor...woudn't I have an illuminated "check engine" light. What problems would make it come on...mine has not come on

Mike,
Did you try starting it cold?

The reason I ask is because your symptom sounds a lot like what happens when the TPS goes bad. Runs like crap and won't idle when hot. Magically works fine when cold.

Good luck in your troubleshooting

did not, Fred

I'll try the cold start...I have the "for Gen I, '04 TPS recall letter somewhere...since the symptoms relating to that recall said it was an issue with changing alitude while riding and I live in the flat south and my occassion trips to the smokies riding my ass off on the Cherohala with no issues, I never had it replaced

OH WAIT, IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE CAR TIRE !!!

Your recall is bad, my friend. The TPS (and its recall) has nothing to do with altitude. That was a different recall (for '06's) and was for the 2nd Gen's ECU. And no check engine light will ever illuminate even when it is so bad the engine will not run.

The TPS is just a variable resistor that sends a signal to your ECU to tell it how open the throttle is. Apparently, it is very difficult to make a variable resistor that doesn't crap out in the harsh environment of a motorcycle, because multiple manufacturers have had problems with these units.

When the TPS fails, it sends lies to the ECU which result in the fueling being wrong for the conditions.

A good cold start doesn't guarantee that your problem is the TPS, but it is the pattern that ha been observed when those sensors go bad. Apparently, the carbon track in the sensor gets a crack in it. The crack is only evident when the sensor has been heated enough to expand and disrupt the continuity of that resistive conductor. This causes the signal to be FUBAR until it cools back down enough to allow normal conductivity.

All of this jibber jabber may not be meaningful to you, but if these are your actual symptoms, and since you have a 1st gen that has a history of bad TPS's, I would seriously consider that as it is a cheap fix (free if you haven't had the recall done) and may very well explain all.

Best to get that car tire off before you go in for the recall so they don't think the problem is the loose nut behind that handlebars.

 

[TomInPA]

Fred, any possibility the TPS may have been repaired on the bike, but the the replacement engine carried along a TPS that was original and subject to recall? I'm just too lazy to go look where this is located.

 

[Patriot]

thanx for all the replies...if a failed coil (I do have spark) or a failed TBS sensor...woudn't I have an illuminated "check engine" light. What problems would make it come on...mine has not come on

Mike,
Did you try starting it cold?

The reason I ask is because your symptom sounds a lot like what happens when the TPS goes bad. Runs like crap and won't idle when hot. Magically works fine when cold.

Good luck in your troubleshooting

did not, Fred

I'll try the cold start...I have the "for Gen I, '04 TPS recall letter somewhere...since the symptoms relating to that recall said it was an issue with changing alitude while riding and I live in the flat south and my occassion trips to the smokies riding my ass off on the Cherohala with no issues, I never had it replaced

OH WAIT, IT'S OBVIOUSLY THE CAR TIRE !!!

Best to get that car tire off before you go in for the recall so they don't think the problem is the loose nut behind that handlebars.

all the Yammy dealerships around here suck...all the repair facilities here suck

I would only be comfortable getting the part and having my "engine swap" genius mechanic replace it

(100 miles away in Tylertown, MS so you know I believe he's the best)

cost's me about $75 in fuel to trailer the bike there/back twice to drop it off...400mi

...so if it's expensive and not reasonable for me to purchase it outright (>$50), I'd want to get just the part under warranty...is it a "do it yourself" project...I have a forum friend who is a good shade tree mechanic if too much for me

***is the TBS bolted to the engine itself...if so, in hindsight I shudda taken it off my old grenaded engine to keep...I kept the clutch and stator covers

comments?

 

[flagstaff]

wfooshee made the point about spark and SPARK, and I'd like to expand on that.

Back in the day it was part of service to clean the plugs. Shops usually had what amounted to a small sand blaster with a coil and a compressed air inlet. You'd screw the plug in, attach an air source, and open the sand blast valve to clean the plug. After you had cleaned the plug you could test it to see if it needed replacing. To do this you'd attach the coil wire from the machine, push a button to activate the coil, and then observe the spark through a viewing port. You would generally see a pretty good spark, but the test was not over. Now you opened a valve that added compressed air into the chamber where the spark plug tip was located. You could adjust the pressure up to the maximum your hose was providing, generally a bit over 100 psi. Weak/bad plugs that sparked nicely without pressure would show less of a spark when pressure was increased, often to the point that there was no spark at higher psi.

Unfortunately, there is no way easy way to recreate the bike's spark when under pressure when you are just trouble shooting so there is no way to really tell the condition of the coil by watching the spark at atmospheric pressure.

You can measure your coils windings with a multimeter to see if they are within specs.

 

[Queensland Ken]

May I suggest checking the ECU connector for high resistance.

Could well be a possibility.

 

[Patriot]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mholiver/sets/72157632726526669/