beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
+1, Gunny; Best Heartfelt Wishes to Dave for a Full Recovery, we Crashees have to stick together! JSNS, Ouch!
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S E O Ride report-- I put my friend in a helicopter today
- Thread starter gray ray
- Start date
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drc32-0
Well-known member
I don't think you would have been running around like a chicken with its head cut off.The thing is,I don't think anybody that was there had any idea that Dave's injuries were that bad,I know I didn't!!!Since I was leading and we were in a very twisty part of 658,I went maybe a half mile before I realized something was wrong.By the time I got turned around and back to the accident scene and asked if we needed an ambulance Dave replied,"Just give me a minute."I just thought he was shook up as anyone would be after a get off.He was on his knees and when he didn't stand up after a few minutes we decided to call for help.I didn't see the crash,but where the bike landed and were Dave was,you could tell it was a hard get off and you never know the extent of hidden injuries in that case.I think we all thought the ambulance was just a precaution,but looking back,boy am I glad they were there!
When Ray posted Dave's injuries I was shocked!I really thought his thumb would be his worst injury and he would be sore for a week or two.Boy was I wrong!He has been in my thoughts and prayers constantly since I learned the extent of his injuries.I am so happy to hear that the healing process is going as well as can be expected and he is considering another bike.
Lesson learned...call the ambulance immediately !!!It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!
gray ray
Well-known member
dcarver,
To answer your question about ABS brakes. I am not sure but probably. Like you, I will never own a street bike without them.
I am currently a road racer. Not only do I race but, I instruct the novice class on track days, and the race school for the new 250 class racers. I am not the fastest guy on this forum but I know a little about how to ride a motorcycle fast around a corner.
I tell my students the same two things at every class. First and most importantly look down the track as far ahead as you can, secondly and stay off of the rear brake.
Looking down the track does two things: It kills the illusion of speed and gives you a little more time to react to conditions in front of you.
I am very experienced at crashing. Just ask any of the guys that I race with. This is what happens to me and I am offering it up in the hope that it might help one guy get thru a turn going too fast without hurting himself.
First; for some reason (fatigue, lack of concentration, scenery) you stop looking thru the turn and start looking at the turn. Your eyes tell your brain that you are going too fast, even though you have been around the same turn at faster speeds. At this point the crash is still avoidable, if you can force yourself to look thru the turn, and let your reflexes and training take over.
Second; and these things all happen at about the same time. Straighten up the bike, chop the throttle, grab the front break, hit the rear brake. By now it is too late to save the crash.
Straightening up the bike is a bad idea. The bike stops turning and starts going straight.
Chopping the throttle, not good, usually causes rear wheel to lose traction.
Grab front brake is good, providing that you don't lock it up. If you lock it up you are going down immediately.
Hit rear brake worst possibly action. Rear wheel locks up, now all control is lost and away you go
Now, I know that there will guys out there that want to start talking about trail braking, and tapping the rear brake to settle down the dynamic forces that occur while braking hard into a corner, but these are not skills that learned on a street bike while being ridden on the street with stock suspension. It is a far easer lesson to teach and to learn : JUST STAY OFF OF THE REAR BRAKE
AND LOOK AS FAR AHEAD OF YOURSELF AS POSSIBLE.
I was the fourth rider in this accident, immediately behind Joe. My sight was concentrated far ahead of both Joe and Dave. It was a 30M.P.H left hander that was more then a 90 degree turn. All I saw was Dave's bike flying thru the air and over a 5 foot high fence with my peripheral vision, so I really did not see exactly what happened. But, what I did see was a 50 to 60 foot long, rear wheel skid mark starting just to the right of the double yellow line and heading straight off the road. Had Dave not locked the rear wheel he still had plenty of room to navigate this turn.
Dave is a very experienced racer and rider with over 100K on his ST Honda. I talked to him today and one of the first things he said to me was; "I can't believe that I locked up the rear wheel".
'.
To answer your question about ABS brakes. I am not sure but probably. Like you, I will never own a street bike without them.
I am currently a road racer. Not only do I race but, I instruct the novice class on track days, and the race school for the new 250 class racers. I am not the fastest guy on this forum but I know a little about how to ride a motorcycle fast around a corner.
I tell my students the same two things at every class. First and most importantly look down the track as far ahead as you can, secondly and stay off of the rear brake.
Looking down the track does two things: It kills the illusion of speed and gives you a little more time to react to conditions in front of you.
I am very experienced at crashing. Just ask any of the guys that I race with. This is what happens to me and I am offering it up in the hope that it might help one guy get thru a turn going too fast without hurting himself.
First; for some reason (fatigue, lack of concentration, scenery) you stop looking thru the turn and start looking at the turn. Your eyes tell your brain that you are going too fast, even though you have been around the same turn at faster speeds. At this point the crash is still avoidable, if you can force yourself to look thru the turn, and let your reflexes and training take over.
Second; and these things all happen at about the same time. Straighten up the bike, chop the throttle, grab the front break, hit the rear brake. By now it is too late to save the crash.
Straightening up the bike is a bad idea. The bike stops turning and starts going straight.
Chopping the throttle, not good, usually causes rear wheel to lose traction.
Grab front brake is good, providing that you don't lock it up. If you lock it up you are going down immediately.
Hit rear brake worst possibly action. Rear wheel locks up, now all control is lost and away you go
Now, I know that there will guys out there that want to start talking about trail braking, and tapping the rear brake to settle down the dynamic forces that occur while braking hard into a corner, but these are not skills that learned on a street bike while being ridden on the street with stock suspension. It is a far easer lesson to teach and to learn : JUST STAY OFF OF THE REAR BRAKE
AND LOOK AS FAR AHEAD OF YOURSELF AS POSSIBLE.
I was the fourth rider in this accident, immediately behind Joe. My sight was concentrated far ahead of both Joe and Dave. It was a 30M.P.H left hander that was more then a 90 degree turn. All I saw was Dave's bike flying thru the air and over a 5 foot high fence with my peripheral vision, so I really did not see exactly what happened. But, what I did see was a 50 to 60 foot long, rear wheel skid mark starting just to the right of the double yellow line and heading straight off the road. Had Dave not locked the rear wheel he still had plenty of room to navigate this turn.
Dave is a very experienced racer and rider with over 100K on his ST Honda. I talked to him today and one of the first things he said to me was; "I can't believe that I locked up the rear wheel".
'.
El Toro Joe
FYYFF
Ray, the weather for Tuesday and Wednesday is looking great, wish I could join you guys (very limited vacation days left). Have fun, enjoy yourselves, and be safe.
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Bockelrider
Well-known member
Bockelrider
Well-known member
I am with Ray on this one! My last fall (3or4 years back) was from hitting my back brake and not looking through the corner. It comes up on you quick. I was last in this group with Dave and did not see him or his bike as I was looking down the road. My first clue was the others stopping. One thing that really helped was Joe's first aid kit!! Great thing for all to carry! A little tape and gauze goes a long way when you need it to hold the bits and pieces together.
drc32-0
Well-known member
Hey Ray....any updates on Dave's condition?He's still in my thoughts and prayers.
Steel_Gin
Well-known member
Wow!! Thoughts and Prayers to Dave and everyone helping out.
El Toro Joe
FYYFF
Steve,
I've had that first-aid kit in my trunk for a few years now, never had to use it, but figured it might come in handy sometime. I hadn't even thought about it until you asked if someone had a towel, to wrap around Dave's thumb.
So Ray...any word on how Dave is doing?
Bockelrider
Well-known member
Talked to Dave a few days ago. They put a pin in his thumb and are hoping it will heal.The nail had come loose and it will be a while before they know what will happen. The rest of his multitude of injuries will probably heal with time. They are not planning any more operations at this point ... just lay back and heal.
He is still hurting a lot but has a super attitude. He is very thankful for all the good thoughts coming his way. He has a strong faith and a great wife helping him.
He is still hurting a lot but has a super attitude. He is very thankful for all the good thoughts coming his way. He has a strong faith and a great wife helping him.
El Toro Joe
FYYFF
Glad to hear Dave is getting better. The medical bills suck. SEO Ramble? What about lunch, and the bike show.
TomInPA
Well-known member
Ray, was the helicopter ride covered? Those are pretty pricey. Not good timing on dropping the Public Employees Retirement insurance benefit. Keep us posted, and hopefully Dave will be back on 2 wheels with the return of warm weather.
gray ray
Well-known member
Tom,
The helicopter ride was included in the Metro General Hospital bill, and was about $20,000.00 , to go from Cambridge, Ohio to Cleveland. I am not sure how much if any of
his bills will be covered.
After talking to several of my friends, at the race track, I am finding out that insurance companies are becoming very reluctant to cover the cost of helicopter rides.
I'll post up the insurance results from time to time, just to let everyone know what is going on. I can say one thing for sure; Progressive was very fast and very generous with
there settlement.
The helicopter ride was included in the Metro General Hospital bill, and was about $20,000.00 , to go from Cambridge, Ohio to Cleveland. I am not sure how much if any of
his bills will be covered.
After talking to several of my friends, at the race track, I am finding out that insurance companies are becoming very reluctant to cover the cost of helicopter rides.
I'll post up the insurance results from time to time, just to let everyone know what is going on. I can say one thing for sure; Progressive was very fast and very generous with
there settlement.
CAJW
Well-known member
Sad to read this thread and the extent of Dave's injuries. I can vaguely relate as I too sleep in a recliner lately convalescing a banged up (dirt bike induced) knee. Dave's injuries sound like they'll take awhile to mend, but from what I've read, he's got a great attitude toward recovery, which can only help speed the process.
Regarding his helo bill, the Air Ambulance companies I've flown for will send a bill for one amount, but sometimes can be negotiated with to settle for a lower amount. Please encourage Dave to call their billing representative to discuss his case as you never know until you try. Best of luck with the recovery and minimizing the financial impact.
Regarding his helo bill, the Air Ambulance companies I've flown for will send a bill for one amount, but sometimes can be negotiated with to settle for a lower amount. Please encourage Dave to call their billing representative to discuss his case as you never know until you try. Best of luck with the recovery and minimizing the financial impact.
