Setting the Record Straight about Deflate-gate
- Thread starter Fred W
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Muchas Gracias Freddie Bear, my newest Screensaver! jes' sayin' and nuff said, Arriba-Ai-Ai!
Time to throw some gasoline on this fire...
As we all know, the accusation was that 11 of the 12 balls the patriots used during part of the first half were under-inflated. From the latest rumors it seems that 10 of those 11 were underinflated by about 1 psi. One ball was underinflated by about 2 psi and one was not underinflated. These numbers may be significant.
We also know that a locker room attendant was handed the balls after passing the tech inspection, and that he ducked into a 1-holer bathroom with them for about 90 seconds. For him to deflate the dozen Patriots' game balls he would need to be very quick and able to do it "by ear". In other words, just stick a needle in for a second and assume that would do the job.
Apparently he was very good as 10 of the balls were right about 1 psi low, which was probably what he was trying to achieve. But, in his bathroom haste, he may have mixed the balls up and missed one and instead deflated another twice. That would explain the exact number of balls and pressures situation that is believed to have occurred.
Now, for the $500k question: Under whose direction would he have deflated those balls?
I'll just add that I have no problem rooting for the Patriots even if they are cheaters. Cheating is intrinsic to all professional sports (except Golf). There is no "integrity" in the NFL that needs protection. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
As we all know, the accusation was that 11 of the 12 balls the patriots used during part of the first half were under-inflated. From the latest rumors it seems that 10 of those 11 were underinflated by about 1 psi. One ball was underinflated by about 2 psi and one was not underinflated. These numbers may be significant.
We also know that a locker room attendant was handed the balls after passing the tech inspection, and that he ducked into a 1-holer bathroom with them for about 90 seconds. For him to deflate the dozen Patriots' game balls he would need to be very quick and able to do it "by ear". In other words, just stick a needle in for a second and assume that would do the job.
Apparently he was very good as 10 of the balls were right about 1 psi low, which was probably what he was trying to achieve. But, in his bathroom haste, he may have mixed the balls up and missed one and instead deflated another twice. That would explain the exact number of balls and pressures situation that is believed to have occurred.
Now, for the $500k question: Under whose direction would he have deflated those balls?
I'll just add that I have no problem rooting for the Patriots even if they are cheaters. Cheating is intrinsic to all professional sports (except Golf). There is no "integrity" in the NFL that needs protection. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
ionbeam
2 FUN
Absolutely, given the huge, nay, insurmountable advantage the proven cheaters the Patriots had, they should forfeit the win and be replaced by the vacationing Colts in spite of the fact the Colts would be totally unprepared for the game. Now that's fair.
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rushes
Well-known member
Looks like some of you are still pretty pumped up about this....
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
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exskibum
~<>~<>~<>~<>~
More gasoline-like speculation to go with Fred's:
I think this has less to do with grip for passing and more to do with the Patriots trying to minimize fumbles following the lobbied for rule change (about who inflates and prepares the balls) between 2006 and 2007. Fill them with warmed air to the minimum required psi to be technically within the rules, knowing they'll be softer than that (and easier to hold on to) when used in cold (and wet) field conditions. Belichick seemed a little too eager to make the explanation about the effect of cold on inflation pressure a part of the dialogue.
I have no idea whether the locker room attendant was actually a part of that or was just a scapegoat doing something else. Whether my guess holds air depends upon (1) whether the rules even address temperature of the air used to inflate the balls, and (2) whether the referee inspection protocol takes place while the air in the balls can still be significantly warmer than in gametime conditions.
I think this has less to do with grip for passing and more to do with the Patriots trying to minimize fumbles following the lobbied for rule change (about who inflates and prepares the balls) between 2006 and 2007. Fill them with warmed air to the minimum required psi to be technically within the rules, knowing they'll be softer than that (and easier to hold on to) when used in cold (and wet) field conditions. Belichick seemed a little too eager to make the explanation about the effect of cold on inflation pressure a part of the dialogue.
I have no idea whether the locker room attendant was actually a part of that or was just a scapegoat doing something else. Whether my guess holds air depends upon (1) whether the rules even address temperature of the air used to inflate the balls, and (2) whether the referee inspection protocol takes place while the air in the balls can still be significantly warmer than in gametime conditions.
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Pterodactyl
Well-known member
I suspect the Colts. They were only out scored by 10 points when the balls were under inflated. They were out scored by 28 points when they were properly inflated.
RossKean
Well-known member
If the air in the ball behaves as an "ideal gas", the pressure drop going from 70F to 40F amounts to something on the order of 3/4 lb. (PV=nRT). Pressure drop could actually be a little less than this since the ball (somewhat elastic) shrinks marginally as the pressure drops yielding a slightly lesser volume. If, however, the air is particularly humid, the observed pressure drop could be more. (Due to condensation, humid air exhibits a greater pressure drop as the temperature drops.) Same as tires on your bike. (There, a motorcycle reference.) Maybe they should be required to fill the balls with (dry) nitrogen?
ionbeam
2 FUN
During this skewering of the cheating Patriots using conjecture and innuendo as the key methods for solid analysis, I have a question. What would have happened if Brady hadn't thrown the interception? Would the Colts found another reason for the ref to get the ball? Would we be enjoying the normal banter and run-up to the Super Bowl instead of the Grand Inquisition? In the NFL's final report I expect to read about thumb screws, ripped off finger nails and water boarding as they got to the root cause of the under inflated balls
Brady walks past the ball boy and mutters in a barely audible voice, "I sure do like under inflated foot balls and could show some gratitude if I found soft balls during the game." Followed shortly by Belichick who walks past the ball boy and mutters under his breath, "It's over 80º in the equipment room, now would be a good time to inflate the balls to 12.6 PSI. Not that I know anything about balls being used to play football or anything about inflating footballs, I though they were born this way."
Brady walks past the ball boy and mutters in a barely audible voice, "I sure do like under inflated foot balls and could show some gratitude if I found soft balls during the game." Followed shortly by Belichick who walks past the ball boy and mutters under his breath, "It's over 80º in the equipment room, now would be a good time to inflate the balls to 12.6 PSI. Not that I know anything about balls being used to play football or anything about inflating footballs, I though they were born this way."
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Unlike most of the rumors being bounced around, here are some incontrovertible facts:
[facts]
1) The rules do not specify temperature that the balls are filled nor checked at.
2) The rules do not specify where balls are filled/checked at (in warm steamy locker room vs. on field in playing conditions).
3) A ball that is filled and checked to be "in spec" at 12.5 psi in a warm locker room will measure lower when cooled down proportional to the drop in temperature.
4) The rules do not specify what gas is used to inflate the balls, though we should infer it would be air.
5) The rules state that balls will be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 pounds (mot psi) The people that wrote the rules were not scientists.
6) The rules allow for each team to customize (doctor up) their own game balls the way they want (within limits) and submit them for acceptance by the refs.
[/facts]
[opinions]
Maybe, just maybe, if the league was really concerned about fairness and equality in ball conditions between teams, the rule would be that everyone plays with the same ball (just like they already do for the kicking balls). Wow... I'm a freaking genius, huh? But the league wants to promote offense and scoring because they know that is what the fans come to see. So they let the teams doctor up their own balls and they get more offense and more scoring. There is no other explanation.
The reason that the league has not put an end to this stupid inflate-gate controversy (yet) is because they want to deflect the attention of the fans and media away from the more serious allegations surrounding league improprieties. It's just smoke and mirrors. A simple misdirection. A big "Red Herring". If people weren't concentrating so intently on the "Patriots and their evil, cheating ways" they might be talking about the far more serious integrity issues currently hanging over the league.
This inane football "controversy" will make the upcoming Superbowl game on Sunday the highest viewed ever. I mean really, what more could they ask for?
[/opinions]
[facts]
1) The rules do not specify temperature that the balls are filled nor checked at.
2) The rules do not specify where balls are filled/checked at (in warm steamy locker room vs. on field in playing conditions).
3) A ball that is filled and checked to be "in spec" at 12.5 psi in a warm locker room will measure lower when cooled down proportional to the drop in temperature.
4) The rules do not specify what gas is used to inflate the balls, though we should infer it would be air.
5) The rules state that balls will be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 pounds (mot psi) The people that wrote the rules were not scientists.
6) The rules allow for each team to customize (doctor up) their own game balls the way they want (within limits) and submit them for acceptance by the refs.
[/facts]
[opinions]
Maybe, just maybe, if the league was really concerned about fairness and equality in ball conditions between teams, the rule would be that everyone plays with the same ball (just like they already do for the kicking balls). Wow... I'm a freaking genius, huh? But the league wants to promote offense and scoring because they know that is what the fans come to see. So they let the teams doctor up their own balls and they get more offense and more scoring. There is no other explanation.
The reason that the league has not put an end to this stupid inflate-gate controversy (yet) is because they want to deflect the attention of the fans and media away from the more serious allegations surrounding league improprieties. It's just smoke and mirrors. A simple misdirection. A big "Red Herring". If people weren't concentrating so intently on the "Patriots and their evil, cheating ways" they might be talking about the far more serious integrity issues currently hanging over the league.
This inane football "controversy" will make the upcoming Superbowl game on Sunday the highest viewed ever. I mean really, what more could they ask for?
[/opinions]
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
At this point in time, I am just looking forward to seeing the Super Bowl being played; I think it will be the most exciting game in a long time, two great teams battling it out!
https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2014/Air+filter+the+culprit+in+Nakagami+disqualification All of us here on our Fine FJR Forum are Motorcycle Fanatics, a large portion of us here are Moto GP Fans. Long story short in this motorcycle sport we all love, if your equipment is found not to meet the race specifications for any reason: YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED, PERIOD!!!
https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2014/Air+filter+the+culprit+in+Nakagami+disqualification All of us here on our Fine FJR Forum are Motorcycle Fanatics, a large portion of us here are Moto GP Fans. Long story short in this motorcycle sport we all love, if your equipment is found not to meet the race specifications for any reason: YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED, PERIOD!!!
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Many would argue that motorcycle racing (and golf) are not "sports". No room for cheating.
Dr. Rich
Arrested Development
Fred.... Your statement that... "I'll just add that I have no problem rooting for the Patriots even if they are cheaters." says much. I suspect that you're an A Rod fan also.... Cheating in any sport or in any aspect of life is reprehensible .... Some people will try for any advantage that is not fair or legal, but that doesn't make it right. I certainly would not want to do business or associate with anyone that openly accepts cheating in any form. I think a reading of the golden rule is in order.
The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim, ethical code or morality that essentially states the following: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself .
The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim, ethical code or morality that essentially states the following: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself .
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
+10, Double Gunny; I also have absolutely no use for cheaters, either professionally or personally! jes' sayin' and nuff said, Amen to the Golden Rule Dr. Rich!
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Intech
Mr. Camping Meet
That right there is the real problem. If Goodell and the NFL had any integrity they would have come out publicly and harshly admonish the media and anyone else who has propagated this ridiculous accusation. Of course the same reasoning applies to the 2007 incident. It was blown out of proportion and perpetuated by lies and misinformation also.
Yeah you're right Dr. Rich: Nobody "cheats" in pro sports, except for those reprehensible Patriots.
It's not intrinsic to the sport of professional football to cheat.
Nobody else intentionally breaks rules to gain an advantage over the other teams, because that would be cheating and football is a game of high integrity.
Those defensive secondary players aren't intentionally trying to interfere with the other teams receivers so that he doesn't score a touchdown.
And those plays where the crossing pass routes create illegal picks, those weren't on purpose. No sir.
The linemen that grabs a fist full of jersey preventing the opposing rushers from sacking the QB just get carried away in the heat of the moment.
Football players don't fake an injury to get an official's timeout without using one of the three allowed when their team needs a blow. That would be plain dishonest and reprehensible.
Coaches don't encourage and instruct their players on techniques to intentionally break many of the rules of the game and get away with it. What coach would ever do that?
Mike Tomlin didn't stand right on the sideline interfering with the kickoff run back by Jacoby Jones on the Thanksgiving game in 2013 on purpose. He just lost track of where he was. Yeah that's it...
Teams don't list perfectly healthy players on the questionable or probable injuries lists throughout the week just to mess with the other teams. That would be plain dishonest.
And don't even consider the possibility that an enclosed stadium facility might play artificial crowd noise (at deafening levels) through the PA system only when the opponents offense is on the field and interfere with their ability to hear the QB's signals.
There is no particular reason that hometown crowds cheer loudly when their own defense is on the field and then get eerily quiet for the offense. They just like the defense much better. They aren't trying to unfairly influence the outcome of the game.
Baseball coaches certainly don't look the other way when their star pitcher goobers up the baseball so his curve ball has more bite.
They never teach soccer players how to take a dive to draw a penalty kick that might influence the game for their club to win. Those guys are just very frail. But my goodness they do heal up quickly.
Baseball groundskeepers don't intentionally allow the grass to grow longer in the infield right before the games where their star ground ball pitcher is due up in the rotation. That wouldn't be fair.
In basketball and soccer, players aren't coached to return the ball to the official slowly, intentionally delaying the game so their team can get back into position.
I've got some harsh news for some of the more naive folks out there...
Players, coaches and teams in all professional sports intentionally break the rules of the game (the very definition of cheating) all the time. When they get caught they get penalized and the game moves on. It's just a game.
Dr Rich, you know next to nothing about me, my degree of honesty, or my personal ethics. Your sanctimonious admonishments based upon my one comment are outrageous and inappropriate. I guess the "golden rule" only applies to other people?
It's not intrinsic to the sport of professional football to cheat.
Nobody else intentionally breaks rules to gain an advantage over the other teams, because that would be cheating and football is a game of high integrity.
Those defensive secondary players aren't intentionally trying to interfere with the other teams receivers so that he doesn't score a touchdown.
And those plays where the crossing pass routes create illegal picks, those weren't on purpose. No sir.
The linemen that grabs a fist full of jersey preventing the opposing rushers from sacking the QB just get carried away in the heat of the moment.
Football players don't fake an injury to get an official's timeout without using one of the three allowed when their team needs a blow. That would be plain dishonest and reprehensible.
Coaches don't encourage and instruct their players on techniques to intentionally break many of the rules of the game and get away with it. What coach would ever do that?
Mike Tomlin didn't stand right on the sideline interfering with the kickoff run back by Jacoby Jones on the Thanksgiving game in 2013 on purpose. He just lost track of where he was. Yeah that's it...
Teams don't list perfectly healthy players on the questionable or probable injuries lists throughout the week just to mess with the other teams. That would be plain dishonest.
And don't even consider the possibility that an enclosed stadium facility might play artificial crowd noise (at deafening levels) through the PA system only when the opponents offense is on the field and interfere with their ability to hear the QB's signals.
There is no particular reason that hometown crowds cheer loudly when their own defense is on the field and then get eerily quiet for the offense. They just like the defense much better. They aren't trying to unfairly influence the outcome of the game.
Baseball coaches certainly don't look the other way when their star pitcher goobers up the baseball so his curve ball has more bite.
They never teach soccer players how to take a dive to draw a penalty kick that might influence the game for their club to win. Those guys are just very frail. But my goodness they do heal up quickly.
Baseball groundskeepers don't intentionally allow the grass to grow longer in the infield right before the games where their star ground ball pitcher is due up in the rotation. That wouldn't be fair.
In basketball and soccer, players aren't coached to return the ball to the official slowly, intentionally delaying the game so their team can get back into position.
I've got some harsh news for some of the more naive folks out there...
Players, coaches and teams in all professional sports intentionally break the rules of the game (the very definition of cheating) all the time. When they get caught they get penalized and the game moves on. It's just a game.
Dr Rich, you know next to nothing about me, my degree of honesty, or my personal ethics. Your sanctimonious admonishments based upon my one comment are outrageous and inappropriate. I guess the "golden rule" only applies to other people?
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Gotta agree with Fred on this one, and for the record, I despise cheats and liars. However, under Don's rules, all football games should be called at the first flag.
The reason clipping, face masking, off-sides, roughing the kicker, unsportsmanlike conduct, personal fouls, delay of game, too many players on the field, etc are penalized is because they are all forms of cheating. There are multiple instances where these offenses have plainly happened and not been fairly called. Therefore, every player on every team is a blatant cheater.
From now on, as soon as the first flag is thrown, the game should be stopped and awarded to the team that was victimized.
Now, where's that petition???
The reason clipping, face masking, off-sides, roughing the kicker, unsportsmanlike conduct, personal fouls, delay of game, too many players on the field, etc are penalized is because they are all forms of cheating. There are multiple instances where these offenses have plainly happened and not been fairly called. Therefore, every player on every team is a blatant cheater.
From now on, as soon as the first flag is thrown, the game should be stopped and awarded to the team that was victimized.
Now, where's that petition???
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