Setting the Record Straight about Deflate-gate

[dcarver]

The report even goes so far as to say, "the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half," which is exactly what they measured, on average. All of the conclusions that Wells makes are based on "feelings" and innuendo, not facts or science. Even the two dummies' text messages do not implicate the Brady ever asked for any pressure to be released after the referees inspection.

..and the report continues on..

Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range

predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. 66

As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.

The boi be guilty.

 

[beemerdons]

Any moron can clearly see just in that guilty *** Grey (10 min of live feed) led discussion, Tom is guilty as all get out. He should just fess up, say yeah I had a ball guy take out some L-bees and take it head on. But, he won't.
So for Brady? I say 8 games minimum.

I think 8 games is about right....2 for actual infraction, 4 for refusing to cooperate with the investigation, and 2 more just for being such a bad liar at the press conference. Come on Tom, if you can't lie any better than that you should just tell the truth...

 

[FJRay]

I can't believe people really care about this ****. Go out and get on your bike and ride. Even riding in the rain makes more sense than a crisis about overpaid whiners pissing in their Wheaties.

 

[Top_Speed1]

Nobody said anything about caring for this or the subject of, but, I am following the story.... well, probably cuz I'm bored, yes! but more so cuz it's just good fawking drama!

Okay, back to General Hospital! ..and... not really.

 

[Old Michael]

For fucksake , Ray. Is it that hard for you to accept that some folks just enjoy the NFL?
One needn't be bored or even given frivolous pursuits just because he finds a lot of this interesting. I mean, there are some folks who enjoy sitting on their bikes for hours on end just so they can watch their odometer advance to a certain reading within 24 hours. And of course there are just as many who spend hours fondling, and shooting, and talking about, and lusting over, and bragging on, and overcompensating with ... firearms. Not judging, of course, but one must realize that being a sports (pro or collegiate) fan is not the worst thing a fellow can be, ....unless you're a stinkin' Blackhawks fan.

Some of it is a bit of character study, ...the Brady stuff. I don't see how anyone can listen to his comments on the whole mess and conclude that he's being honest about it.

Whether it's a minor offense or even punishable, it is telling that he cannot just say, "Yes, I like softer balls. My little hands find them easier to grip and throw, and they are easier for my receivers to catch, and they are less likely to be fumbled by my Patriots' running backs. So, I had a couple of my boys let some air out of 'em. So sue me! ...And thank GOD we didn't have to face the mighty Packers in the Super Bowl! Jus' sayin'!"

 

[Top_Speed1]

Just released....

Brady gets only a 4 game suspension. Wtf, not anything comparable to other punishments of late.

Patriots fined $1M, which is nothing to Kraft. They also lose a 1st rounder next year which IS huge! Also a 4th round pick in 2017.

K. Ur up to date on Peyton ... Oops, I mean Brady Place.

 

[Niehart]

And you know they will appeal all of that and get some reductions.

 

[Auburn]

if the shoe fits, or deflates, deny, deny, deny, then appeal.

 

[yamafitter]

Roger went and shot Brady and I didn't get an invite to the firing squad. I'm pissed. Who do I sue?

 

[ionbeam]

It's more probable than not that there should have been a death penalty trial. Because it's more probable than not that Brady/Patriots are guilty. And it's more probable than not that the deflated balls didn't make any difference. It's also more probable than not that one of the last years of Brady's career is porked. It's also more probable than not that this year for the Patriots has been made impossible for another super bowl run. Just sort of add that to the list of punishments, more sublet than actually barring them, but in effect the same.

It would be nice to see the league run a crusade for fair play against all the other teams too, no warnings, no advice, to tip-offs, BAM punishment. And damn severe too. No mercy and no forgiveness for all. Just make sure that it is for all in the league.

 

[FJRay]

For fucksake , Ray. Is it that hard for you to accept that some folks just enjoy the NFL?One needn't be bored or even given frivolous pursuits just because he finds a lot of this interesting. I mean, there are some folks who enjoy sitting on their bikes for hours on end just so they can watch their odometer advance to a certain reading within 24 hours. And of course there are just as many who spend hours fondling, and shooting, and talking about, and lusting over, and bragging on, and overcompensating with ... firearms. Not judging, of course, but one must realize that being a sports (pro or collegiate) fan is not the worst thing a fellow can be, ....unless you're a stinkin' Blackhawks fan.

Some of it is a bit of character study, ...the Brady stuff. I don't see how anyone can listen to his comments on the whole mess and conclude that he's being honest about it.

Whether it's a minor offense or even punishable, it is telling that he cannot just say, "Yes, I like softer balls. My little hands find them easier to grip and throw, and they are easier for my receivers to catch, and they are less likely to be fumbled by my Patriots' running backs. So, I had a couple of my boys let some air out of 'em. So sue me! ...And thank GOD we didn't have to face the mighty Packers in the Super Bowl! Jus' sayin'!"

OM , I knew I could expect a well reasoned rational response from you and you're mostly right except for the gun thing and I won't try to explain it cause you wouldn't understand but of course I not judging either

. I used to like the NFL when they played football but now there is way more hype than game. It's happened to most forms of pro sports including motor sports but I'm not judging that either.

.

See you in Utah and I'll give you a hug

 

[Auburn]

It's more probable than not that there should have been a death penalty trial. Because it's more probable than not that Brady/Patriots are guilty. And it's more probable than not that the deflated balls didn't make any difference. It's also more probable than not that one of the last years of Brady's career is porked. It's also more probable than not that this year for the Patriots has been made impossible for another super bowl run. Just sort of add that to the list of punishments, more sublet than actually barring them, but in effect the same.
It would be nice to see the league run a crusade for fair play against all the other teams too, no warnings, no advice, to tip-offs, BAM punishment. And damn severe too. No mercy and no forgiveness for all. Just make sure that it is for all in the league.

The NFL isn't a court of law. As I understand it the NFL did use a legal standard that is applied to most civil cases which is a preponderance of evidence which means more than likely or more probable than not as the NFL phrased it.

I also understand (as the talking heads are saying) that players are required to cooperate with investigations by the NFL under the rules and player code of conduct. And the NFL does not have subpena power and cannot compel anyone to produce records or answer their questions. Brady chose not to cooperate and now he suffers however the the NFL chooses to interpret the evidence they were able to collect.

EDIT: missed a step in the process. Brady can appeal, and the penalties will most likely be reduced, but I doubt they will be overturned. Which means he is still guilty in the NFL's eyes.

For those that think that Brady wants to take this to a court. I seriously doubt that as his records will be subject to subpoena and discovery. You can guarantee he will have to give a deposition under oath at the very least. Somewhere he is going to have to come clean and fess up or shut up and live with the penalties imposed. Either way he screwed the pooch and got caught. Now he gets to live with the consequences to his reputation and legacy if they mean anything to him.

 

[beemerdons]

For fucksake , Ray. Is it that hard for you to accept that some folks just enjoy the NFL?One needn't be bored or even given frivolous pursuits just because he finds a lot of this interesting. I mean, there are some folks who enjoy sitting on their bikes for hours on end just so they can watch their odometer advance to a certain reading within 24 hours. And of course there are just as many who spend hours fondling, and shooting, and talking about, and lusting over, and bragging on, and overcompensating with ... firearms. Not judging, of course, but one must realize that being a sports (pro or collegiate) fan is not the worst thing a fellow can be, ....unless you're a stinkin' Blackhawks fan.

Some of it is a bit of character study, ...the Brady stuff. I don't see how anyone can listen to his comments on the whole mess and conclude that he's being honest about it.

Whether it's a minor offense or even punishable, it is telling that he cannot just say, "Yes, I like softer balls. My little hands find them easier to grip and throw, and they are easier for my receivers to catch, and they are less likely to be fumbled by my Patriots' running backs. So, I had a couple of my boys let some air out of 'em. So sue me! ...And thank GOD we didn't have to face the mighty Packers in the Super Bowl! Jus' sayin'!"

OM , I knew I could expect a well reasoned rational response from you and you're mostly right except for the gun thing and I won't try to explain it cause you wouldn't understand but of course I not judging either

. I used to like the NFL when they played football but now there is way more hype than game. It's happened to most forms of pro sports including motor sports but I'm not judging that either.

.

See you in Utah and I'll give you a big hug and a loving reach around!

Fixed!

 

[beemerdons]

It's more probable than not that there should have been a death penalty trial. Because it's more probable than not that Brady/Patriots are guilty. And it's more probable than not that the deflated balls didn't make any difference. It's also more probable than not that one of the last years of Brady's career is porked. It's also more probable than not that this year for the Patriots has been made impossible for another super bowl run. Just sort of add that to the list of punishments, more sublet than actually barring them, but in effect the same.

It would be nice to see the league run a crusade for fair play against all the other teams too, no warnings, no advice, to tip-offs, BAM punishment. And damn severe too. No mercy and no forgiveness for all. Just make sure that it is for all in the league.

The NFL isn't a court of law. As I understand it the NFL did use a legal standard that is applied to most civil cases which is a preponderance of evidence which means more than likely or more probable than not as the NFL phrased it.

I also understand (as the talking heads are saying) that players are required to cooperate with investigations by the NFL under the rules and player code of conduct. And the NFL does not have subpena power and cannot compel anyone to produce records or answer their questions. Brady chose not to cooperate and now he suffers however the the NFL chooses to interpret the evidence they were able to collect.

EDIT: missed a step in the process. Brady can appeal, and the penalties will most likely be reduced, but I doubt they will be overturned. Which means he is still guilty in the NFL's eyes.

For those that think that Brady wants to take this to a court. I seriously doubt that as his records will be subject to subpoena and discovery. You can guarantee he will have to give a deposition under oath at the very least. Somewhere he is going to have to come clean and fess up or shut up and live with the penalties imposed. Either way he screwed the pooch and got caught. Now he gets to live with the consequences to his reputation and legacy if they mean anything to him.

This is why AuburnFJR is the smartest individual on our Fine FJR Forum, next to Bustanut joker and odot! +1, Gunny; jes' sayin' and nuff said!

 

[beemerdons]

if the shoe fits, or deflates, deny, deny, deny, then appeal.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-marmon/deflategate-ruins-tom-bradys-reputation_b_7264190.html?utm_hp_ref=sports&ir=Sports

 

[Top_Speed1]

For fucksake , Ray. Is it that hard for you to accept that some folks just enjoy the NFL?One needn't be bored or even given frivolous pursuits just because he finds a lot of this interesting. I mean, there are some folks who enjoy sitting on their bikes for hours on end just so they can watch their odometer advance to a certain reading within 24 hours. And of course there are just as many who spend hours fondling, and shooting, and talking about, and lusting over, and bragging on, and overcompensating with ... firearms. Not judging, of course, but one must realize that being a sports (pro or collegiate) fan is not the worst thing a fellow can be, ....unless you're a stinkin' Blackhawks fan.

Some of it is a bit of character study, ...the Brady stuff. I don't see how anyone can listen to his comments on the whole mess and conclude that he's being honest about it.

Whether it's a minor offense or even punishable, it is telling that he cannot just say, "Yes, I like softer balls. My little hands find them easier to grip and throw, and they are easier for my receivers to catch, and they are less likely to be fumbled by my Patriots' running backs. So, I had a couple of my boys let some air out of 'em. So sue me! ...And thank GOD we didn't have to face the mighty Packers in the Super Bowl! Jus' sayin'!"

OM , I knew I could expect a well reasoned rational response from you and you're mostly right except for the gun thing and I won't try to explain it cause you wouldn't understand but of course I not judging either

. I used to like the NFL when they played football but now there is way more hype than game. It's happened to most forms of pro sports including motor sports but I'm not judging that either.

.

See you in Utah and I'll give you a big hug and a loving reach around!

Fixed!

Ruined my appetite for a meatball sandwich. Thanks Don!

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, what the NFL should do is go back and take away all the touchdowns the Patriots made with the under inflated balls during the Colts game. That would teach them...Unless you remember that once the balls were properly inflated the Patriots really dropped the hammer on the Colts.

You know, for football, these guys sure are a bunch of whining *******, and the whining is echoed by the NFL's ***** fans.

 

[Fred W]

The report even goes so far as to say, "the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half," which is exactly what they measured, on average. All of the conclusions that Wells makes are based on "feelings" and innuendo, not facts or science. Even the two dummies' text messages do not implicate the Brady ever asked for any pressure to be released after the referees inspection.

..and the report continues on..

Most of the individual Patriots measurements recorded at halftime, however, were lower than the range


predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. Indeed, once Exponent converted the game day measurements recorded for each gauge into a corresponding “Master Gauge” pressure (in order to provide for a direct comparison with the results predicted by the calculations), the measurements for all but three of the Patriots game balls, as measured by both gauges, were lower than the range predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. 66

As a result, Exponent concluded that application of the Ideal Gas Law within the context of the most likely game day conditions cannot account entirely for the pressure drops observed in the Patriots halftime measurements.

The boi be guilty. [img=[URL="https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/black%20eye.gif%5D"]https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/black%20eye.gif][/URL]

Brady may be guilty (of getting the two employees to do some deflation) but one problem is that the bolder statement above is patently false. The average off the measurements was exactly what was predicted by the ideal gas law which means that half (or less) of the balls were softer and an equal number were harder. What wasn't taken into account was that, in addition to the ideal gas law is the effect that soaking the balls in moisture and knocking the wet leather around on the field has on the pressure. That effect is what would explain why some of the balls were lower than predicted by the IGL and others that may have spent the entire half in the ball bag were higher than the predicted.

It might also explain some of why the Colts balls did not depressurization as much since they did not get to use them nearly as much.

It is also somewhat distressing that Wells selected "Exponent" to develop and produce scientific evidence for their report. Do a quick google on who exponent is, or was, and what their prior history has been.

 

[yamafitter]

One could argue that "knocking" the ball around would agitate the air molecules in the ball and cause the ball to heat up and increase the pressure not decrease it. Also since Brady had control of the ball so much by your own admission the heat transfer from Brady's hands should have warmed the ball also increasing its pressure.

It's time to give up Fred. Roger has stuck a fork in Brady's butt and turned him over because Brady is done. Even Johnie Cochran if he was still alive couldn't get Brady off the hook for this one.

 

[Fred W]

Alright. Go out and shoot Brady. But for chrissakes leave Milan alone. My bean town Bears looked bad enough this year as it was.

I'll just add an ad hominem argument to this madness, regarding my prior question about the "science" in the Wells report:

The same company that did research for the Deflategate report also argued on behalf of the tobacco industry in 2010 that secondhand smoke doesnt cause cancer, the Providence Journal reports.
In an article Monday, the newspaper looked into accusations that the firm, Exponent Inc., is a hired gun that issues findings in favor of its big-business clients.

In 2006, Exponent was paid $3.3 million by Georgia-Pacific and argued in a report that asbestos didnt cause cancer, according to the Center for Public Integrity.

-Exponent conducted a report for Toyota to disprove claims that sudden acceleration in its vehicles could be caused by problems in its electronics throttle systems.

-Exponent produced a study in 2009, backed by Chevron, disassociating the companys toxic-chemical dumping in the Ecuadorian rainforest with cancer deaths in the area. But, the Journal said, the study did not disclose that a member of Chevrons board of directors was also the single largest shareholder in Exponent.

In other words, they will produce (or manufacture) pseudo scientific data and conclusions to support whatever position their client desires. You have to ask yourself: Why would Wells, and so indirectly the NFL, feel a need to hire such a company to manufacture this kind of evidence?