bigjohnsd
2021 BMW R1250GSA
It would be interesting to see how far Brady, or any other Qback in the league, could throw a football that weighs12.5#.
Setting the Record Straight about Deflate-gate
- Thread starter Fred W
- Start date
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yamafitter
Reigning NERDS Granite Lane Gold Medalist
Wow Fred, do you need some of my blood pressure meds?
With fuzzy logic like that you could be a Leafs fan.
With fuzzy logic like that you could be a Leafs fan.
Just curious, which part was fuzzy? The Defelator text timing? Or something else?
It may be hard to tell, but I'm not all that worked up about this. I find it entertaining in its own right. So many people have been complaining about the ineptitude of the current commissioner. It was clear that he used this trivial cheating complaint to deflect attention away from more serious league issues that are also his responsibility. Based on how the Pats rolled over and took it up the backside in the spygate non-sense, I'm sure that he expected Brady and Kraft to just accept these punishments without a fight.
If they were guilty as charged, why would they bother to fight it? 4 games is nothing to Brady financially, and the 4 games would only be against one division rival. They could lose all 4 and still quite likely be in the playoff structure. And a million is nothing to Mr Kraft. That doesn't even pay a low grade player for a year. Just write it off as another business expense. Of course I do not fully understand the idea of fining the owner of the club a million bucks for misdeeds that his quarterback and a couple of team flunkies allegedly pulled off without his knowledge, but there are a lot of things that I don't get about this entire situation.
It may be hard to tell, but I'm not all that worked up about this. I find it entertaining in its own right. So many people have been complaining about the ineptitude of the current commissioner. It was clear that he used this trivial cheating complaint to deflect attention away from more serious league issues that are also his responsibility. Based on how the Pats rolled over and took it up the backside in the spygate non-sense, I'm sure that he expected Brady and Kraft to just accept these punishments without a fight.
If they were guilty as charged, why would they bother to fight it? 4 games is nothing to Brady financially, and the 4 games would only be against one division rival. They could lose all 4 and still quite likely be in the playoff structure. And a million is nothing to Mr Kraft. That doesn't even pay a low grade player for a year. Just write it off as another business expense. Of course I do not fully understand the idea of fining the owner of the club a million bucks for misdeeds that his quarterback and a couple of team flunkies allegedly pulled off without his knowledge, but there are a lot of things that I don't get about this entire situation.
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
And Kraft will get his wish to have the commissioner appoint the arbitrator. Wanna bet he will whine about the ruling???
I really don't care if he cheated or not. But it is funny as sh*t to watch these rich guys squirm and complain about rules they helped put in place. The Patriot fans going silly about it are the cherry on top.
Kind of backfired on the Patriots as Kraft lead initiative to have Goodell be the commissioner...and now his judge.
Auburn
Well-known member
Have you considered for even a second that they may actually be telling the truth?
No, I didn't think so.
No, I didn't think so.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
It's a stupid rule anyway. If the outcome of a game comes down to a difference if 1psi in a football, the losing team should probably figure out what the Hell they're doing wrong. The fact that the Colts lost by such a huge margin is, in my mind, proof that the psi in the balls was moot.
Do I think Brady cheated? Nope.
Do I really give a rat's little hairy ass? Nope.
Do I think Brady cheated? Nope.
Do I really give a rat's little hairy ass? Nope.
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See here's the thing. At this point they aren't even talking about a full 1 pound psi. Ball pressure decreases at reduced temps. The Colts balls also DE-pressurized to below the league spec on 3 out of 8 readings, and they supposedly started at a higher pressure. The difference between the Colts balls and the Pats balls was about 1/2 psi of pressure loss. That is just so insignificant I can't imagine intelligent people pointing fingers and claiming "cheaters!"
The league knuckleheads did not know that pressure reduces with temperature, that much is clear. When they measured the balls and found they were below the 12.5 psi spec they thought immediately that this meant that someone had tampered. Then they constructed a (flawed) case to show that they had. But the flaws are too obvious. And the fines were too severe. And now the accusers are going to have to defend their own actions.
The league knuckleheads did not know that pressure reduces with temperature, that much is clear. When they measured the balls and found they were below the 12.5 psi spec they thought immediately that this meant that someone had tampered. Then they constructed a (flawed) case to show that they had. But the flaws are too obvious. And the fines were too severe. And now the accusers are going to have to defend their own actions.
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juniorfjr
Well-known member
The deflating isn't about the Colts game or the super bowl, they won both of them. But what about some of the squeakers during the season. The playoffs may not have gone through Foxboro. Read that since 2007 the Pats fumble once every 180 or so snaps where the league average was 130. With most teams within 20 of that. That kind of statistical advantage can't be coincidence. Even with the best coaching and players,it's a funny shaped ball with big men colliding over and over. JSNS
Auburn
Well-known member
Have you considered for a second that maybe they are not telling the truth, only the varnished version that they want people to believe is the truth. Again, arrogance and egos that know no bounds of the owner, coach, and Brady.
They are living down their past cheating scandal which makes it very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt this time.
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
When this thing started in January, I watched an interview with John Madden, who I think was a pretty good coach and has as good of insight on the game as anyone, and he stated that no one, from the head coach to the locker room towel attendents, alters the footballs in any way without the quarterbacks knowledge and consent....period....no exceptions (I hope I quoted him accurately but there didn't seem to be any doubt in his mind that Brady was not being truthful).
And to quote Al Bundy "Its not cheating.........unless you get caught".
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The answer to that question is: absolutely yes. I have considered the possibility that Brady and the two equipment guys are outright lying. But I would never expect for them to be fighting the ruling as vigorously as they are if that were the case.
The stigma of "cheating" that surrounds the Patriots is mostly a fabrication, often by the teams (or fans of those teams) that they have beaten. Did they get busted for videotaping from the wrong location? Yes. The reason that it was a huge fine was that Belichick did so flagrantly, flying directly in the face of the memo from the (then new) commissioner Goodell. Goodell put the hammer down to show that he was not going to take any shenanigans. The press made it seem like they were somehow cheating by taping the signals, but that is actually fully allowed by the rules, actually an expected part of the game, but must be done from the proscribed locations only.
Cheating insinuated that you are trying to get away with breaking some rule that improves your own chances of prevailing (or hampers your opponent's). When you set a guy on the side lines in full view of both teams and 80k fans, plus the other team's videographer, I don't think that you are trying to get away with it.
If they are lying this time, and actually did surreptitiously deflate the balls after the referee inspection, then that would be a classic example of cheating. Of course, if condemning evidence existed that this took place, I would agree with the accusation and be very disappointed. I still do not see any condemning evidence.
As for singling the Patriots out as an anomalous team with a "culture of cheating"; if you want to say that you have to include all of the other teams in the league in that anomaly, because they have all had their "cheating scandals".
www.YourTeamCheats.com
Latest reports say that Brady will sue before the Commissioner arbitrates. If this actually goes to court the testimony will be quite interesting.
The stigma of "cheating" that surrounds the Patriots is mostly a fabrication, often by the teams (or fans of those teams) that they have beaten. Did they get busted for videotaping from the wrong location? Yes. The reason that it was a huge fine was that Belichick did so flagrantly, flying directly in the face of the memo from the (then new) commissioner Goodell. Goodell put the hammer down to show that he was not going to take any shenanigans. The press made it seem like they were somehow cheating by taping the signals, but that is actually fully allowed by the rules, actually an expected part of the game, but must be done from the proscribed locations only.
Cheating insinuated that you are trying to get away with breaking some rule that improves your own chances of prevailing (or hampers your opponent's). When you set a guy on the side lines in full view of both teams and 80k fans, plus the other team's videographer, I don't think that you are trying to get away with it.
If they are lying this time, and actually did surreptitiously deflate the balls after the referee inspection, then that would be a classic example of cheating. Of course, if condemning evidence existed that this took place, I would agree with the accusation and be very disappointed. I still do not see any condemning evidence.
As for singling the Patriots out as an anomalous team with a "culture of cheating"; if you want to say that you have to include all of the other teams in the league in that anomaly, because they have all had their "cheating scandals".
www.YourTeamCheats.com
Latest reports say that Brady will sue before the Commissioner arbitrates. If this actually goes to court the testimony will be quite interesting.
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
Why not? You may be talking about 10s of million dollars in future endorsements for Brady. I would expect him to fight the ruling even if there was overwhelming evidence and a "smoking gun". If he doesn't fight the ruling than he is a guilty villain whose entire career may be questioned; the longer and harder he fights the ruling the more fans (and future sponsors) will conclude that he is a victim. Its all about money and not the money he loses by being suspended for a few games.
Personally, I don't have a dog in the this fight. Sports cheating, commonly referred to "getting an edge" will happen in any competitive sport. I'm just surprised the NFL rules and enforcement on this issue was so lax that it almost encouraged teams/quarterbacks to break those rules....until they got caught.
Niehart
Pie Smuggler
Robert Kraft: Patriots won't appeal Deflategate punishmenthttps://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12913741/robert-kraft-says-new-england-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment
Auburn
Well-known member
I don't believe for a second that it is for the good of the league either. I tend to think there is more evidence that league has that was not released in the report to the public that helped Kraft change his mind.
Brady is still appealing, and possibly suing along with the NFL Players Association.
So the latest part of this fiasco is it has been revealed that there was some "back room dealings" between Kraft and Goodell. And immediately after Kraft announced that he would accept his fine, which he really did not have much choice except to appeal to Goodell, for "the good of the league", we now hear another formal appeal from the NFLPA to have Goodell assign an independent arbitrator. Coincidence? I think not.
My guess on the "deal" was that Goodell will now do just that. He can keep his name out of it, but in essence any independent arbitrator will look at the evidence and overturn Brady's suspension. They do not have an inkling of proof that Tom knew about any deflation, and in fact don't even have proof that there was deflation beyond what chilling the balls down 20 something degrees results in.
What makes me ill about the situation is the apparent sting of Grigson and Kinsell before the playoff game, knowing about a potential integrity issue and not addressing it openly and above board like they did with the other two teams who were caught on video warming balls earlier in the season, all of the inflammatory and condemning "leaks" to the press originating from the NFL front office, the piece of crap of a investigative report that cost the league 5 million bucks and took 4 months to produce, and it doesn't even have anything in it that a smart 6th grader couldn't put a dozen holes in. The scientific evidence exonerates the Patriots. All they have is a couple of Beavis and Butthead knuckleheads yakking about nonsense that is long before the Colts game in question, And that is reason to say more likely than not?
Nobody is going to win in this. The Patriots looked bad from the moment the first leak condemned them. Most people never got past the totally false "11 of 12 balls were 2 psi low" BS report.
The Colts shenanigans make them look like an incapable bunch of whiny losers. They couldn't beat the Patriots so they had to discredit them. The league looks like the keystone cops, never mind the sting and corruption with the officials stealing souvenir balls, unable to put together a decent investigation even in 4 months and 5 million dollars? I'm pretty sure I could do better than that for far less than 5 mill.
I wish that Brady would just sue them and bare it all, because I'd sure like to see everything come out for better or for worse from all parties involved. But I suspect that they now have an exit strategy that leaves the league protected, Brady unsuspended, and the Patriots a bit poorer (Kraft will not be paying that out of his own pocket. It comes from the Patriots. Just another business expense). Of course this comes (once again) with the stigma that the world will believe that by accepting the fines and draft pick losses that you are admitting complete guilt. But we will never know the whole truth then.
My guess on the "deal" was that Goodell will now do just that. He can keep his name out of it, but in essence any independent arbitrator will look at the evidence and overturn Brady's suspension. They do not have an inkling of proof that Tom knew about any deflation, and in fact don't even have proof that there was deflation beyond what chilling the balls down 20 something degrees results in.
What makes me ill about the situation is the apparent sting of Grigson and Kinsell before the playoff game, knowing about a potential integrity issue and not addressing it openly and above board like they did with the other two teams who were caught on video warming balls earlier in the season, all of the inflammatory and condemning "leaks" to the press originating from the NFL front office, the piece of crap of a investigative report that cost the league 5 million bucks and took 4 months to produce, and it doesn't even have anything in it that a smart 6th grader couldn't put a dozen holes in. The scientific evidence exonerates the Patriots. All they have is a couple of Beavis and Butthead knuckleheads yakking about nonsense that is long before the Colts game in question, And that is reason to say more likely than not?
Nobody is going to win in this. The Patriots looked bad from the moment the first leak condemned them. Most people never got past the totally false "11 of 12 balls were 2 psi low" BS report.
The Colts shenanigans make them look like an incapable bunch of whiny losers. They couldn't beat the Patriots so they had to discredit them. The league looks like the keystone cops, never mind the sting and corruption with the officials stealing souvenir balls, unable to put together a decent investigation even in 4 months and 5 million dollars? I'm pretty sure I could do better than that for far less than 5 mill.
I wish that Brady would just sue them and bare it all, because I'd sure like to see everything come out for better or for worse from all parties involved. But I suspect that they now have an exit strategy that leaves the league protected, Brady unsuspended, and the Patriots a bit poorer (Kraft will not be paying that out of his own pocket. It comes from the Patriots. Just another business expense). Of course this comes (once again) with the stigma that the world will believe that by accepting the fines and draft pick losses that you are admitting complete guilt. But we will never know the whole truth then.
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