Shorai battery

[garyahouse]

The saga continues:

Battery arrived from Shorai today. It's now been 8 or 9 days since FedEx said they actually rec'd it. They've not contacted me or answered any of my emails. I just called their customer service department. They said it performed up to their expectations... that it passed all their tests.

Well it didn't pass mine. I am not going to trust a new battery that fails on me every time it gets a little cold. It won't start my FJR at anything below 45 degrees. At 50, it will barely start the bike, and only after several fingernail biting attempts.

Their 14 ah battery is officially and undeniably a failure in the FJR in my books.

I hope my 130 dollar experiment will serve as a warning to all... not necessarily about Shorai, but about using their 14ah battery in an FJR.

It may be in Craigslist by tomorrow, but it will never go in my bike again. It's not fit for an FJR. I asked them more than once if they'd upgrade it to an 18ah battery, but no answer and no luck on that idea.

Be warned. The 14ah battery works fine above about 60 degrees or so. However, it's performance falls off a cliff when the temps drop.

Gary
darksider #44

 

[SkooterG]

So they sent you your original battery back?

Thanks for the info. No Shorai for me anytime soon.

 

[garyahouse]

HeyFred

EDIT: SORRY SKOOT (I was reading a post by Fred W just before writing this response to your email. duhh. I am sooo feeling my age)

They sent my original battery with new packaging and a - strictly business - note with their evaluation. They recommended that I check my charging system, though I fully documented voltages before during and after several - over night battery start/fail cycles for them - including voltages during starts, ambient temperatures, number of attempts, etc. I sent them several emails. Sorry, I don't need to be venting here. They know full well that I'm not happy with their battery and that it won't start my bike. The question was: what were they prepared to do about it? Did they HAVE to do more? NO, obviously. But they could have. But hey it's business. They did all that a business should be required to do. I should have known better than to take a chance on a product that this forum had not fully endorsed.

That is after all, what we DO on this forum: attempt to give each other some good advice. My bad for not heeding the voice of experience, even though it wasn't conclusive.

Well, it is now: at least for me.

But hey, I'm not a complainer. I am officially over this. I said what I needed to say to help the forum to know exactly what takes place from start to finish with this company.

I do need to get a battery ASAP though.

Mmmm. Let's see. Time to roll the dice again...

Gary

darksider #44

 

[SkooterG]

Hey Fred.

Fred? Fred?!?!? FRED??????!!!!!!!

Oh man, Gary. That's a low blow. I feel like I have been sucker-punched.

Thanks for nuttin!

 

[garyahouse]

Time for some more CROW.

No, it's double CROW. No. This is going to make me the King of Crow. I'm going to have to sign my posts as, "Gary, crow rider."

Here goes:

I just got an email from Shorai

--they are sending me a new LFX18A1-BS12 battery to replace my LFX14. I'm in shock. Somebody pinch me, I'm dreaming. I just got off the phone this afternoon with Shorai. They said they'd tested my battery, it was fine, and it would be at my house today. No less, no more. When I got home, there it was. Inside was a short note stating that it passed their tests and it was fine. But as I told you , it didn't pass MY test, and it WASN'T fine. Looked like I was at the end of my rope. End of story, right? N-O-P-E ....

Remember Paul Harvey?

Wait till you hear the "rest of the story." Back track 3 months. I bought the battery from Alex at Mishacycles.com in October. He'd recommended that I buy the LFX 18 (the 18ah model) for the FJR. I declined and ordered the 14 ah instead... it was cheaper. It was fine for a while.

Fast forward to 1 month ago. The battery failed for the first time when it got real cold about 3 weeks ago. I emailed Mishacycles and told them my dilemma. Alex called me that night, saying he'd contact Shorai for me. Next thing, the battery's on it's way, postage paid, to Shorai. I told Shorai all about my experience with their battery. I described how it failed when I tried to start the bike. i documented for them the ambient temperature, and the voltage before, during, and after my attempts to start the bike. I explained that the electrical system on my FJR was in excellent condition. I asked them to PLEASE upgrade it to an 18ah, as I'd been warned that the 14ah was too weak for the FJR (wish I'd have listened to the forum). Anyway, Alex at Mishacycles.com asked that I'd let him know how it worked out. I promised that I would.

Fast forward to today

I called Shorai, wondering where the battery was. They sent it and it should arrive today. They said they'd tested it and It checked out fine. That's it. End of story. I was not a happy camper. I emailed Alex about 3 pm today about Shorai's response, the return of my battery, and their declaration that it was fine. I told him how unhappy I was with Shorai and their product.

So I got home. I fired off my updates to this forum (see above). Afterwards, I checked my inbox... to find several emails.

Alex wrote me back, saying he was going to contact Shorai. Then Shorai wrote to me to say that they'd heard (had to be from Alex) that my battery wasn't working for me. They said they'd put a new 18ah Shorai in the mail. And they mailed it (today) by FedEx--next day air... good grief, how much is that?

So here I am, in a daze. What can I say? Alex at Mishacycles has gone the extra mile and then some. I never asked him to do any of this. It is so refreshing to work with people like Alex. I don't know what he said to Shorai, but wow. And, pass the CROW please, Shorai must be commended here. They have gone the extra mile as well. It speaks volumes about them as a company, that they would do this for me. i'm quite sure they know nothing about my rantings on this forum. How about that?

Don't touch that dial. Stay tuned to this station for more CROW information.

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[SkooterG]

But you still called me FRED!

 

[garyahouse]

But you still called me FRED!

Hmmph. There's somethin' wrong with this record. It keeps skipping.

Now the question is, is it possible that there's nothing wrong with the record player (except that it's getting awful old) and the problem is the record? Maybe it has an in-forum-iority problem?

HOHOHO

Merry Christmas my friend.

Gary

crowrider #44

 

[Chuck35]

They only stepped up to the plate after one of their dealers called on your behalf?

That doesn't seak all that well for them in my book.

Please update this thread as you use the 18ah battery thru the winter.

 

[garyahouse]

They only stepped up to the plate after one of their dealers called on your behalf?

That doesn't seak all that well for them in my book.

Please update this thread as you use the 18ah battery thru the winter.

Granted. However, check this out. They did NOT upgrade my 14ah to their 18ah. They sent me a NEW 18ah, and it appears there are no strings attached. They did not request that I send back the 14ah battery. Maybe it's too soon to tell, but that's what I know thus far. So, I've got a brand new Shorai 18ah with a zillion foam pads. Each one has sticky tape on one side.

A brand new 18ah Shorai. How about that. I was expecting a request to send back the 14ah... which would make this an "upgrade." But they have NOT requested that I return the 14ah battery to them. It appears that I now own 2 batteries.If that doesn't speak highly of a customer service department, I don't know what does. I can't recall this EVER happening to me before. If I were a betting man, I'd be willing to put up a lot of money against this ever happening. But it just did, or so it appears.

Below, I put the new 18ah directly above the 14ah. They are exactly the same size, as you can see.

Just for comparison sake, the 14ah is rated for 210 CCA and the 18ah is rated for 270 CCA. I'm not putting too much stock in either of these numbers. It's what the battery actually does when it gets cold that matters. Now I gotta get the thing installed. Too late tonight. Maybe tomorrow after school. Hey... maybe I can mount them both. The weight shouldn't be a problem. I'll have the only FJR in the world with 2 batteries. Maybe I can take it a step farther and fill up the saddle bags with them... it'll be just like my Hybrid Camry with a trunk full of batteries.

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[TomInPA]

Good luck Gary. I have the 18 ah Shorai, and will be looking to sell it in the Spring when I get back to CA to pick up the bike I don't think it's a solution here in PA. Hope this one works out for you. I didn't have any critical problems with the 18 in CA, but did have one slow start on a cold day. I just don't think it will work out where it gets genuinely cold.

 

[garyahouse]

Thanks Tom.

I'm going to try to provide some genuine feedback on this thread. Actual temps, voltages and results. The experiment continues...

Looks like we're in for some cold temps tonight and tomorrow. Serious cold front coming in to the Tampa Bay area. They're talking freeze warnings. Gotta install the Shoai and then get out and cover the plants, but it should be an interesting morning for the FJR tomorrow.

Stay tuned to this station...

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[garyahouse]

OK, here we go.

Finally got some time to install the new 18ah Shorai. Tonight I began the install. Very few on this forum need any details on how to install a battery, but I'll put up some pictures just for fun. Seems like the forum's been kinda quiet lately, so why not?

First thing, I checked the voltage and state of charge:

My charger showed it was 100% charged from the factory and holding 13.6 volts.

Time to start taking my inner panels off. I could just about do this in my sleep, I've done it so many times. You can see the 12v. power outlet I installed last year. Picked it up for 5 bucks at Pelican Marine. Still working great.

Almost ready to remove...

Just gotta remove the allen screw, wiggle the top plate loose from it's anchor point,

And pull it out.

Next I wanted to see how my old battery looked next to the Shorai. It was about 3/16 narrower than my old battery.

So, It needed a couple of the 3/16 foam shims. I stuck them on the back.

The bottom required a few foam shims as well. The Shorai is a good deal shorter than my old battery.

Below, the width is maybe 3/16 less than the standard battery, so i didn't mess with it... it should be fine.

So here we go: drop the Shorai in...

Reattach the clamp...

And all the wires...

And put the tupperware back on. At this point, I went ahead and started the bike. The battery had been sitting in the house, so it was probably pretty close to 70 degrees. It measured 13.6 volts when I hit the starter button. It dropped to 10.4 while cranking. Spun the engine over effortlessly. But then, that's exactly what I expected. The issue is, what will it do when it gets cold? Below, you can see the voltage meter and the on/off switch I installed for it.

You can see that within a few seconds of starting the bike, the voltage is at 14.2 in the pic above.

Stay tuned for further posts.

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[garyahouse]

Let the testing begin: Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 (18 amp hour)

Outisde temp this morning: 33

Temp in the garage: 46

In between the attempts, I ran the bike for perhaps 10 seconds.

1st attempt

Voltmeter at rest 13.4

Voltmeter after key on: 13.0

Voltmeter during cranking: began at about 10.8, dropped to 10.1

Crank duration: about 2 seconds

Results: started

--it was cranking slow but steady

2nd attempt (about 30 seconds later)

Voltmeter at rest 13.1

Voltmeter after key on: 12.9

Voltmeter during cranking: began at about 10.5, dropped to high 8's

Crank duration: about 4 seconds

Results: did not start

--started out a little slower than 1st attempt, got slower over time.

3rd attempt (about 3 minutes later)

Voltmeter at rest 13.2

Voltmeter after key on: 12.8

Voltmeter during cranking: began about 10.9, dropped to 10.1 or so

Crank duration: about 2 seconds

Results: started

--cranked about the same speed as last time

4th attempt (about 20 seconds later)

Voltmeter at rest: about 13.1

Voltmeter at key on: about 12.9

Voltmeter during cranking: about 10.9, dropped to 10.0 or so

Crank duration: about 3 seconds

Results: started

--cranked about the same speed as last time

5th attempt (about 20 seconds later)

Voltmeter at rest: about 13.2

Voltmeter at key on: 12.8

Voltmeter during cranking: same as above

Crank duration: about 1.5 seconds

Results: started

--cranked over quicker this time

My thoughts: the battery seemed to work well enough at this temperature. Shorai recommends running the lights or heated gear or something for a few minutes before starting during colder temps. This supposedly "warms up the battery" as they put it. Is there an internal temp change? All I know is that the battery in my cell phone gets warm when I use it... and the Shorai is a similar technology. So maybe it does. One thing I did see today. The battery indeed got stronger during the 3rd, 4th and 5th attempts. It cranked the engine ever so slightly... quicker. But then the alternator was also charging it for 10 seconds or so each time I cranked it up. All this activity of starting and charging may well be a different scenario than repeated attempts on a REAL cold morning when and if it won't start.

Gary

crow rider #44

 

[RossKean]

I know you put the Shorai on the charger and it told you it was fully charged but I am wondering if it was, in fact, fully charged. (Is the fully charged voltage the same as a lead-acid?) Unlike lead-acid, the battery voltage is less useful in the assessment of full charge on a lithium chemistry battery.

It will be interesting to see a repeat of the above experiment after a several hour ride to top off the battery.

 

[littlefish]

Good report, Gary. I'm leaning in the Shorai direction but not there just yet. I sure would like to see this bike lose a few LBs!

 

[Bustanut joker]

Still... If you have to dance around for ten minutes before starting is it worth it? From what I've seen to date, these things are just not fit for cold weather climes.

10 pounds off this bike isn't going to have any effect..

 

[garyahouse]

I know you put the Shorai on the charger and it told you it was fully charged but I am wondering if it was, in fact, fully charged. (Is the fully charged voltage the same as a lead-acid?) Unlike lead-acid, the battery voltage is less useful in the assessment of full charge on a lithium chemistry battery.

It will be interesting to see a repeat of the above experiment after a several hour ride to top off the battery.

Good point. I was thinking about that myself. The charger said that the battery was at 100 percent, but who knows. I'll be riding the FJR a bit today with another forum member. Tomorrow's supposed to be rotten cold again, so this will be another good opportunity... with one more variable eliminated.

Gary

Let it crow #44

 

[garyahouse]

Still... If you have to dance around for ten minutes before starting is it worth it? From what I've seen to date, these things are just not fit for cold weather climes.

10 pounds off this bike isn't going to have any effect..

I would agree. I"m from Michigan... just west of Pontiac... and I remember it well. I'll do my best to test the battery in different temps and conditions. I'm planning to try running my lights and/or heated grips for a certain time period before starting the bike as recommended by Shorai. We normally don't get a lot of morning temps below 40 or so, but there ARE some. Hopefully, my labors can help others to make an informed decision.

+1 on the effects of taking 10 lbs off the FJR. I certainly can't tell the difference. However, on this one item, we will agree, once purchasing a Shorai, it becomes much easier to stuff the wallet into yer pants pocket...

Gary

Crow captain #44

 

[ionbeam]

...I'm planning to try running my lights and/or heated grips

If the grip power controller is from the Yamaha kit it won't turn on unless the engine is running. You can't turn on the headlights unless the engine is running, though once running you can use the kill switch and the headlights will stay on. Man, Yamaha doesn't make it easy to have a big power draw accidentally Here is to aftermarket stuff like Warm 'n Safe and driving lights.

 

[garyahouse]

...I'm planning to try running my lights and/or heated grips

If the grip power controller is from the Yamaha kit it won't turn on unless the engine is running. You can't turn on the headlights unless the engine is running, though once running you can use the kill switch and the headlights will stay on. Man, Yamaha doesn't make it easy to have a big power draw accidentally

Here is to aftermarket stuff like Warm 'n Safe and driving lights.

No, I got em from a company called, "Show Chrome." They are wired directly to the battery and can be turned on with the bike off. The LIGHTS I was was referring to... would be the parking lights. You're right about Yamaha. They certainly wanted to protect their customers from accidental power draw. Anyway, I appreciate the feedback.

Gary

Mr. Crow #44