Sidestand fix?

[FJRPierre]

Ooops Fred I think I'm wrong in supporting you. I now see from your website that you have a long history of "fixing" problems and no doubt causing angst and confusion amongst many different ower groups. You won't get away with that sort of behavior here; I think you should take a voluntary "time out".

 

[Warchild]

When Dale uses the F word, it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate ones options....

I admit, I actually had to look up how to spell "facetious" correctly...... :lol:

 

[chornbe]

Sing with me, folks...

We are the world.

We are the children....

ugh.

 

[scubatech]

Warchild, I am off topic here, but a couple of my friend's are looking for a good forum like this one for the CBR1100XX? I sent them to the one you are affilliated with, but it isn't a forum.

Thanks Ken.

 

[Cal24Master]

The amount of people who have done it is so minor it is not even worth mentioning. It was their mistake.If you push the sidestand all the way to its stop and then let the bike down it works 100% of the time.

If you are relying on a spring to take it down that is your fault. In my view the spring is the keep the sidestand up not pull it down.

Fix it if you wish. Have fun.

First off, the amount of folks who have had the sidestand collapse is enough that the subject continually arises on this forum time and again. Second, when it does happen, for whatever reason, it can and will cause major damage to your bike, not to mention your pride.

Third, any decent sidestand is made so that when you deploy it, the spring breaks over center and aids in locking the sidestand fully forward. Go look at the sidestand on any bike and see for yourself how they work. Any decent engineer intentionally designs a sidestand so that you can flick it with your foot, and once it gets about 60% past center, the spring snaps and holds it fully forward. Again, if you want to see how it should work, go look at most any other bike on the road and see what happens when you deploy the sidestand 60% and then release it.

The FJR stand can be deployed to 95% and still remains at 95% when you release it. If you do not absolutly make certain it is 100% fully deployed, the bike can and will fall over when you rest it on the sidestand. The reason manufactures make the spring break over center is to eliminate the chances of having the sidestand collapse from not being fully deployed, and is part of the design consideration. It may seem like a small detail, but it is an important function of a properly designed sidestand.

You may not think it a big deal right up until the time you drop your bike and do $500 of damage to it. If you aren't interested in fixing this problem, then I would suggest you stop reading this post, as you probably know so much about your bike already, there isn't anything more for you to learn about it.

I checked my 82 Suzuki 1100E, and it doesn't pull the sidestand down, same thing with my 91 1100 Katana. I also checked my son's SV650, same thing, the spring lines up doesn't pull the stand up, but it doesn't pull it down either. I'm not sure what you mean by "most any other bike on the road", but I have not seen one that does what you describe they all do.

I'm with crowd that has never had the problem, in almost 4 years, 2 FJR's and over 100,000 miles. However, I must say that I don't ever lean the bike on the side without first taking my foot and pushing the side stand down, whether it was on the center stand or not.

Tom

IBA 161

 

[jestal]

Geez...this reminds me of the posts about self canceling turn signals and the implication that I am an idiot for leaving my turn signal on occasionally and wanting a self canceling one....

I would agree that the side stand CAN work nearly as good as other bikes but the fact is that it does NOT go over-center as far as other bikes I have had and is NOT as easy to put down.

I find it akward to deploy because on other bikes it is much easier to snag the side stand nub with your boot and flick it down. On the FJR the side stand nub is tucked between the foot peg and the shift lever so I have to twist my foot and stick my heel in between them to get the side stand if I am on the bike. Then it doesn't want to go all the way overcenter by simply pushing it down. You have to make a dedicated down and then forward effort.

And it WILL roll off the side stand easier than other bikes. Partly because it does not overcenter as much as it should/could and partly because the FJR stands very upright on the side stand so there is not as much pressure against the side stand and against the detent. I can push my other bikes forward on the side stand and they will almost slide the side stand foot without folding it up. You can push the FJR forward on the side stand and it will immediately fold it up and the bike will fall over.

My rear Wilbers shock raised the rear in the free state about 1/2 inch which has the effect of making the bike sit taller when unloaded so that it leans more now on the side stand. As an added benefit I find it is much more stable leaned over a little more.

So, yes, it can be made to work and it is not impossible to use it but the side stand is not nearly as robust and easy to use as on other bikes. This logic is what leads to the list of 1000 farkles in other areas so why not the side stand.

 

[Warchild]

Warchild, I am off topic here, but a couple of my friend's are looking for a good forum like this one for the CBR1100XX? I sent them to the one you are affilliated with, but it isn't a forum.Thanks Ken.

Truth be told, I can't recommend the American XX forum... it's not very focused on the Blackbird the majority of the time.

I recommend the Australian XX site... good guys, and they stay largely on-topic: https://www.ozblackbird.net/

 

[mdisher]

So if Fred stopped calling it a "Fix' but instead called it a "Sidestand" Optimization or Performance Enhancement" would y'all still be bent out of shape?

Fact is it's easy to deploy that fooker 90% and drop an FJR, it just is. There's no positive engagement feel like on other bikes... I can't/won't go so fars as to say all other bikes, but certainly my other bike snaps forward easier in to a more positive position.

And no, I haven't gone so far as to Enhance my FJR's kickstand yet either. I'm too lazy, and I've already dropped it on that side and have Skyway T.O.G.'s now so it doesn't matter if I do it again.

 

[radman]

Truth be told, I can't recommend the American XX forum... it's not very focused on the Blackbird the majority of the time.
I recommend the Australian XX site... good guys, and they stay largely on-topic: https://www.ozblackbird.net/

Unlike here, where we are just totally fixated on the FJ......hey, be right back-Sherri posted something exploitable again........

 

[Fred H.]

When Dale uses the F word, it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate ones options....

No worries. I been through much worse than this. Trust me.

Well, you can be facetious if you want to, but the fact is, in the case of the sidestand issue, yes, it's an operator issue.

Actually, it IS a design issue. Any good engineering design should be such that it eliminates or reduces the chance of operator error, not increase it. All I am suggesting doing is fixing it so that it works like it should. I don't understand why this seems to bother folks.

The repeated theme I continue to see on this board is that anyone new who brings up something on this board is told to do a search and read all the old stale threads (if they can find them) or else to just live with whatever issue it is as this is the way things are. All the "old timers" seem to think that since they have already had the bike and experienced some of the eccentricities of it, that they can't learn anything from someone with a new point of view has.

The problem with this is that once you adjust to the eccentricities of the bike you probably no longer notice them and don't even realize them anymore, but that doesn't mean they aren't still there. Many times a new owners inputs are actually more valuable than someone who has been riding the bike for X number of years, as they will pick up on problems you long since stopped noticing. Folks willing to tackle and fix these problems will result in refining the bike to a higher level. I suggest folks stop discounting new owners questions and inputs and instead welcome them. This is the only way this board will grow and thrive. If all you do is tell newbees to go do a search, why not shut the board off now for any new posts altogether.

And yes, I have been around an internet motorcycle forum or two in my time, and I have a pretty good understanding about what makes them work and what doesn't. When folks try to stiffle inputs from new members, the entire forum looses. When new comers are welcomed and encouraged to post questions and provide suggestions, the forum grows and gets better.

So pardon me if I continue to find, examine, understand, and fix problems that I percieve with the bike. I am not doing it for the benifet of you who think the bike is already perfect, I am doing it for the ones who know it isn't and would like to see it made better.

 

[NSFJR]

When I first took delivery of my 04ABS, I dropped the SOB within an hour, just by leaning over while still seated, to the right side to adjust my pantleg, with the bike on the fully deployed sidestand. The pulled left hamstring caused by getting out from under 600lbs of falling bike in a hurry took three months to completely heal. After that little exercise, I had the bike parked on the shoulder of the TCH, again on a fully deployed side stand, when a semi went blasting very close by. Had I not been standing on the right hand side of the bike, and very close to it, another tip would have occurred, as the bike straightened up fully and began to fall to the right.

Being a slow learner, upon arrival home, I took a close look at the lean angle of my partner's 03 CBRXX, with the FJR parked directly astern. Bingo, damn FJR looked bolt upright!!! I figured Yamaha did this to lessen the percieved "weight" when bringing the bike from sidestand to centre position in preparation for riding. About 30 minutes later, after grinding the tang and reinstalling the side stand three times, I had the angle I was looking for. Never dropped it again, nor did I ever feel like it would blow over. The sidestand always deployed fully.

On my 06AE, I immediately noticed that Yamaha appears to have changed the "lean angle" some, as the 06 more closely resembles the lean angle of the CBRXX, and as Martha used to say, "this is a good thing".

 

[Warchild]

You can push the FJR forward on the side stand and it will immediately fold it up and the bike will fall over.

I just went outside to try this. I couldn't get the bike to fall at all!

I pushed and shoved the handlebars forward pretty hard, and the bike just wouldn't fall.

Oh, crap, wait a minute... was I supposed to do this activity with the transmission in neutral? Well, damn, no wonder it wouldn't fall..... :lol:

Obviously, my parking technique is getting in the way here.... but that's how I ensure the bike doesn't fall forward on the kickstand: I first put the tranny in gear, and roll the bike forward until all the drive line lash was taken up, deploy the kickstand properly, and then step off the bike. Now the bike is going NOWHERE unless you purposely take the transmission out of gear and shove it forward.

 

[twowheelnut]

Actually, it IS a design issue. Any good engineering design should be such that it eliminates or reduces the chance of operator error, not increase it. All I am suggesting doing is fixing it so that it works like it should. I don't understand why this seems to bother folks.

So, what you're saying is that if it were designed 'right', then some litigation lawyer's child would be deprived of three square, eh? Nice guy you are!

And, it doesn't bother us so much as it makes us morbidly ravenous for someone's head when a drop of blood hits the water. Personally, I prefer a decel wobble as my appetizer, followed by a main course of heat issue and your side stand dilemma makes a dandy dessert. Course, I wash it all down with a fine round of oil talk. And nothing beats a Cubana with a hearty hit of Motoman's espresso to finish off the evening.

:grin:

 

[dcarver]

Fred, I've got your back on this one. I've not dropped my 06 *yet* and haven't ground the tab or searched for other solutions due to laziness. I compared the stand to my other bikes and all the other bikes have better designs.(BMW, HD, Cagiva, Honda). I agree the spring should hold the stand in the forward over-center position. Folks bash Harleys all the time on this board but at least my FLHTCU has a very well designed sidestand. A pin actually extends into a 'hoop' area thus mechanically locking the stand in place.

If you can find a good easy fix for this, just PM me the answer and fook the rest of them. I've enjoyed reading your tech tips and have learned much from you and many others on this board. So have at it - you're an engineer so by nature you like to fix things. Good for ya!

Seems to me that the design should work for you and not put you at greater risk of damage.. And don't forget to laugh your ass off when one of the other 'no problem' kiddos drops their scooter after the wimpy stand folds underneath them.. <-- notice the smilies, "problem kiddos!" --> :lol:

 

[Lerdog]

Sparky3008, give it a rest. We get the point that you think it is dumb. Other people are interested in Fred's point and your juvenile posts are tired.

 

[OhioFJR1300]

Fred, I've got your back on this one. I've not dropped my 06 *yet* and haven't ground the tab or searched for other solutions due to laziness. I compared the stand to my other bikes and all the other bikes have better designs.(BMW, HD, Cagiva, Honda). I agree the spring should hold the stand in the forward over-center position. Folks bash Harleys all the time on this board but at least my FLHTCU has a very well designed sidestand. A pin actually extends into a 'hoop' area thus mechanically locking the stand in place. If you can find a good easy fix for this, just PM me the answer and fook the rest of them. I've enjoyed reading your tech tips and have learned much from you and many others on this board. So have at it - you're an engineer so by nature you like to fix things. Good for ya!

Seems to me that the design should work for you and not put you at greater risk of damage.. And don't forget to laugh your ass off when one of the other 'no problem' kiddos drops their scooter after the wimpy stand folds underneath them.. <-- notice the smilies, "problem kiddos!" --> :lol:

+1 I agree that Fred is onto something, and I would like to know what he comes up with. In my opinion, the FJR sidestand does not "lock"into place as well as any other bike I have owned. I have trained myself to do as Warchild does and take steps to insure that it is as secure as I can when I put it on the sidestand, but if there is a way to move the spring and cause it to lock into place better, I'm all for it. carry on Fred :clapping:

 

[vmaxed]

Fred, I've got your back on this one. I've not dropped my 06 *yet* and haven't ground the tab or searched for other solutions due to laziness. I compared the stand to my other bikes and all the other bikes have better designs.(BMW, HD, Cagiva, Honda). I agree the spring should hold the stand in the forward over-center position. Folks bash Harleys all the time on this board but at least my FLHTCU has a very well designed sidestand. A pin actually extends into a 'hoop' area thus mechanically locking the stand in place. If you can find a good easy fix for this, just PM me the answer and fook the rest of them. I've enjoyed reading your tech tips and have learned much from you and many others on this board. So have at it - you're an engineer so by nature you like to fix things. Good for ya!

Seems to me that the design should work for you and not put you at greater risk of damage.. And don't forget to laugh your ass off when one of the other 'no problem' kiddos drops their scooter after the wimpy stand folds underneath them.. <-- notice the smilies, "problem kiddos!" --> :lol:

+1

 

[twowheelnut]

Folks bash Harleys all the time on this board but at least my FLHTCU has a very well designed sidestand. A pin actually extends into a 'hoop' area thus mechanically locking the stand in place.

Can't argue the positives of HD's side stands. They simply work. However, on all my other machines I have learned to gear it and roll it. As my MSF instructor said those many years ago, "It's the only parking brake they give you on a bike - use it. :wink: "

 

[nusman68]

 

[yamahog]

The way I see it, and I'm sure I'll get fragged for this being a newbie and all, but If you dont think there's a problem, then why even read the post? Leave it be, obviously he thinks there's a problem and is actively searching out a solution and taking the time to share it with the rest of us. Whats the big deal? Nobody said you have to read every post, and nobody said that every post has to have a negative post to counter it. I've been on several cycle forums as well as others and this is by far the most argumentative forum I've ever seen. I see the reason for the political rule. No matter what someone posts, 10 others have to come on and bash the original poster because they think they are smarter than the other guy. These are here to help people out, not shun them cause you've got a higher post count. It'd be different if it was all lighthearted hazing, but most of it is not. Take it or leave it.