Sidestand fix?
- Thread starter Fred H.
- Start date
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SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
I agree that the H-D design is a good one.
But..............
I almost dropped my H-D one time from a bad sidestand deployment. Turns out I kicked that sucker forward with such force that it actually sprang back unbeknowst to me. I did find that out as I lowered the bike and it just kept going. Talk about an "oh ****" back spasming, quad straining moment. Whew! So what did I learn after that? To always visually check to make sure the stand was actually forward. Kinda like a use my foot to make sure the FJRs sidestand is forward. So even a "well engineered" sidestand can bite you when you forgo using the gray matter between the ears. Can evel lull you into a false sense of security as was mentioned previously.
I agree that the FJRs sidestand design could be better, but its NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. Surely not a big enough deal to cause the back and forth angst we have had in this thread. If you want to modify yours to provide for some additional security and protect yourself from mental errors, well then all the more power to you. My next motorcycle will be an ABS to protect me from my own stupidity while braking in panic situations. I don't have any problem admitting that.
But with a broad stroke of the brush to claim that Yamaha's design is solely at fault for all these problems is stretching it a bit. Most of us have had no problem whatsoever. And if I do, I'll blame myself, and not the stand.
This just in from Yamaha....
FROM: Yamaha USA
TO: Certain FJR Owners
SUBJECT: SIDESTAND DESIGN AND WARNING
It has come to Yamaha's attention that some FJR riders are tipping over their FJR's while parking. We're concerned that this might affect your ownership experience and have worked with our engineers to correct this critical design flaw and will implement it immediately.
The fix will be a decal and will be mailed to every owner reporting the problem. The decal should be affixed prominently on your tank and read every time you park . A copy of that decal is below.
FROM: Yamaha USA
TO: Certain FJR Owners
SUBJECT: SIDESTAND DESIGN AND WARNING
It has come to Yamaha's attention that some FJR riders are tipping over their FJR's while parking. We're concerned that this might affect your ownership experience and have worked with our engineers to correct this critical design flaw and will implement it immediately.
The fix will be a decal and will be mailed to every owner reporting the problem. The decal should be affixed prominently on your tank and read every time you park . A copy of that decal is below.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Gawd dammit Iggy!!! You owe me a new keyboard!
:rofl:
:rofl:
Rick and Mr. Cheezey Poof, You and Fred, and me.
HA! What a cluster!
3 Morons, an Engineer and You. Does it make you worry some times? :derisive:
Warchild
Benevolent Dictator
Oh, no.... we're not even close to the being the most argumentitive moto-forum, trust me.
Head on over the ST.N if you want to see argumentitive motorcycle forum... go check out the Dungeon over there, and you'll see some serious fur fly!
Alternatively, you can check out https://www.labusas.org/, if you really want to see a forum that routinely eats their young for breakfast. We are as tame as can be compared to that outfit.... :lol:
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
This just in from Yamaha....
FROM: Yamaha USA
TO: Certain FJR Owners
SUBJECT: SIDESTAND DESIGN AND WARNING
It has come to Yamaha's attention that some FJR riders are tipping over their FJR's while parking. We're concerned that this might affect your ownership experience and have worked with our engineers to correct this critical design flaw and will implement it immediately.
The fix will be a decal and will be mailed to every owner reporting the problem. The decal should be affixed prominently on your tank and read every time you park . A copy of that decal is below.
Howse bout a warning sticker about parking next to vectervp1 and getting scratches on BOTH sidebags?
:lol:
I don't remember this being the case on my 83 GL1100a, 84 GL1200a and only possibly, might have been on my 98 GL1500se. In spite of how they might have been set up, the reports of people failing to properly park were about as common as around here. The term would probably be more accurately described as "occasionally" instead of "continually".
I think he's saying that an individual's perception of a flaw doesn't constitute its actuality. I'm surprised no one's mentioned the self-retracting side stand on some BMW's. Fully deployed, it completely retracts as soon as you take the weight off the stand. Surely no one is going to imply that BMWs are under-engineered. Are they?
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2 additional cents --
The sidestand has at least two deficiencies:
It's final all-the-way forward position is not all that stable. Ideally, it would seem that the weight of the bike would essentially lock the stand in the full forward position. And, to rotate the stand back to the fully retracted position you'd have to lean the bike several degrees to the right.
The spring's operation offers more than two distinct sidestand positions -- fully retracted or all-the-way forward. It's an analog spring. Past a certain point the sidestand stays where you leave it and the spring obliges.
It's a small issue unless you drop your bike. Not too dissimilar to the pilots that crashed in KY yesterday. If the runway had been lit properly, labeled clearly, and all ambiguities eliminated they would have likely used the correct runway. Their flight routine for that airport was changed and they didn't adapt accordingly. With all of the instrumentation in commercial planes today, I'm amazed they don't have a device in the plane which automatically says to the pilot "this is runway XX".
A good design is one where the right outcome occurs with the least effort from the human operator. A well designed sidestand should offer only two positions to the operator -- fully retracted or all-the-way forward. Why should you have to check and verify that the sidestand is fully deployed?
The sidestand has at least two deficiencies:
It's final all-the-way forward position is not all that stable. Ideally, it would seem that the weight of the bike would essentially lock the stand in the full forward position. And, to rotate the stand back to the fully retracted position you'd have to lean the bike several degrees to the right.
The spring's operation offers more than two distinct sidestand positions -- fully retracted or all-the-way forward. It's an analog spring. Past a certain point the sidestand stays where you leave it and the spring obliges.
It's a small issue unless you drop your bike. Not too dissimilar to the pilots that crashed in KY yesterday. If the runway had been lit properly, labeled clearly, and all ambiguities eliminated they would have likely used the correct runway. Their flight routine for that airport was changed and they didn't adapt accordingly. With all of the instrumentation in commercial planes today, I'm amazed they don't have a device in the plane which automatically says to the pilot "this is runway XX".
A good design is one where the right outcome occurs with the least effort from the human operator. A well designed sidestand should offer only two positions to the operator -- fully retracted or all-the-way forward. Why should you have to check and verify that the sidestand is fully deployed?
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
Most excellent!
But the "sensitive" should be changed to the more accurate "being dramatic".
FJRocket
Doctor Throckenstein !!!
My '06 appears to be less stable on the side stand than my lowered '04 ever was. Yes, my '06 side stand collapsed because it was probably partially deployed. Operator error? Operator error.
Is Fred talking about an '06? They seem to have a different side stand. Or it works differently. Or is it just me? I guess the '06 is lower... but as much or more than my lowered '04? Donthinkso. Not at the seat anyway. Or at the sidestand.
Until Fred gets a patented repair for the obviously inept sidestand on the '06, I'm getting out my grinder and going to town. I don't like picking up these bikes from laying on their side.
Go Fred, GO!
Is Fred talking about an '06? They seem to have a different side stand. Or it works differently. Or is it just me? I guess the '06 is lower... but as much or more than my lowered '04? Donthinkso. Not at the seat anyway. Or at the sidestand.
Until Fred gets a patented repair for the obviously inept sidestand on the '06, I'm getting out my grinder and going to town. I don't like picking up these bikes from laying on their side.
Go Fred, GO!
Sorry about that "flaw", but our department decided it would be better to use remaining design funds on another project and hope you would be willing to correct the sticker with a Sharpie at home. We're hoping that if we don't have to redesign the kickstand we might be able to add HID lights to the FJR in '09.
Sincerely,
Ignacio Takamura
Yamaha Warning Sticker and HID Engineer
$10 says he doesn't last our another year before dumping the bike and moving to a platform where his every move will be honored according to the visionary status he so richly deserves.
bmwhd
Well-known member
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. No excuse in the world why all bikes don't have locking side stands a la HD. Still, having owned a K1200LT, I'm fanatical about kicking the sidestand forward to seat it and rocking the bike forward in gear. Even then, I stare at the sidestand as I dismount to see if it's moving. Long habits are hard to break...
ionbeam
2 FUN
Let me offer this: Yamaha should put a detent on the '07 side stand so that it makes a positive CLICK when it is fully deployed. Now, the ones that unlink brakes, disable ABS and disconnect the windshield auto-retract can get under the bike and remove the clicker. The ones that like or need the feature can leave it alone.
You're so right. They should have fixed this problem instead of the valve seals.
Or wait! They could have fixed the valve seals AND add this AND add another $200 to the price tag. Perfect. Maybe cupholders should be added too? What's another hundred bucks.
ionbeam
2 FUN
Guess I should have added a :winkie: and a :smilie: or two. I'm a bit surprised at how seriously people are taking this :blink:
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How much clearance will we need to create, inside the frame, to make room for the binary, switch-blade-like side stand?
Sorry, it's sometimes hard to tell on the Internet.
Please pretend my response was to one of the other folks serious about thinking this perceived sidestand shortcoming is of major consequence and should come at the expense of something more helpful like HID lights, ticker fix, etc.
Just slightly less clearance than it would be to add a tilt indicator coupled with a side stand deployment sensor, and all that wired to an upgraded ECU that then actuates new airbags to initiate from the sidebags and turn signal area.
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