Knifemaker
Not me
What's the point of producing "bark" on a pork butt you plan on shredding? Aren't you just mixing tougher/drier meat in with the more tender/juicier meat?
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Smokers (BBQ - not grilling)
- Thread starter Fred W
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TomInPA
Well-known member
Bark on a smoked pork is great. I can add texture if mixed into the shredded meat, or keep it for special treats. Some consider it the best eating.
Yeah, the bark is the best part. Surprisingly, it ios not all the hard or dried out even after 12 hours of baking it in smoke at 230F. I suppose the fat rending has a lot to do with that. And the more bark you make the more that gets distributed into the pulled pork combine. The browning reaction flavor is out of this world. On this last roast when I peeled the shoulder off the pit the last time it left a few shreds of bark stuck to the grille. Cook's delight, I figured and grabbed them off with my gloved fingers and gobbled them up right away. My god is that awesome. Better than sex (almost).
Pulling the pork has never been a big chore for me. When it has been cooked long enough, using the low and slow method that dissolves the toughness and fat, it literally pulls itself. I have a pair of (inexpensive) heavy plastic insulated BBQ gloves that I picked up at Lowes one time for less than $10 for the pair. They allow me to grab the roast and toss it around on the grille during cooking with no fear of hand burns. And when the shoulder is done I can just use my hands to pull it. That allows me to pull out any remaining fat globs for the dietary conscious folks, and break up the major muscles into any size meat chunks that I want. Not sure I'd like the automated way with a food processor, but I've never done it either, so I shouldn't poo poo it.
Re: Boston Butts... The front shoulder of the pig is called the whole shoulder. You can cook a whole shoulder, but it is a big piece of meat. Most of the time they will separate the front shoulder into two sections: The Butt (or Boston Butt) is the upper part, closest to the chest of the hog. Around here it is usually de-boned, and sold as a Boneless Butt People who make pulled pork in a crock pot usually go with these. The reason for the "Boston Butt" name has to do with this being the least expensive cut of pork, and they used to pack the cheap part of the shoulder in wooden casks known as "butts", and at that time Boston was a big source of pork meat for the US. That was a long time ago and times have changed.
The "Picnic" is the lower half of the front legs and is always sold bone-in. The Picnic was considered superior to the butts, as it tends to be leaner and less fatty, but of course you also have to pay for the bone today, and in BBQ we render out most of the fat to become delicious on its own.
I usually get the Picnics because I want a bone-in roast, and the Butts seldom are here. If I could get the bone-in butts I'd go with that if the price is right. A buck a pound is what I like to see on either cut.
PS - I'm toying with the idea of making UDS smokers as a little retirement hobby business. It's wicked easy and the materials would cost less than $100 ea. and that is if I go crazy and get domed lids for them all like mine. Drums can be had for free, if you know the right people. You burn it out, then install a few screws and nuts fr the shelves, get a $10 22" grate and make a charcoal basket, add some handles and a few close nipples and a ball valve, and you're in business.
If I thought I could get $200 each, and I think that s a fair number, I'd be happy to turn out ugly drums all day long.
Pulling the pork has never been a big chore for me. When it has been cooked long enough, using the low and slow method that dissolves the toughness and fat, it literally pulls itself. I have a pair of (inexpensive) heavy plastic insulated BBQ gloves that I picked up at Lowes one time for less than $10 for the pair. They allow me to grab the roast and toss it around on the grille during cooking with no fear of hand burns. And when the shoulder is done I can just use my hands to pull it. That allows me to pull out any remaining fat globs for the dietary conscious folks, and break up the major muscles into any size meat chunks that I want. Not sure I'd like the automated way with a food processor, but I've never done it either, so I shouldn't poo poo it.
Re: Boston Butts... The front shoulder of the pig is called the whole shoulder. You can cook a whole shoulder, but it is a big piece of meat. Most of the time they will separate the front shoulder into two sections: The Butt (or Boston Butt) is the upper part, closest to the chest of the hog. Around here it is usually de-boned, and sold as a Boneless Butt People who make pulled pork in a crock pot usually go with these. The reason for the "Boston Butt" name has to do with this being the least expensive cut of pork, and they used to pack the cheap part of the shoulder in wooden casks known as "butts", and at that time Boston was a big source of pork meat for the US. That was a long time ago and times have changed.
The "Picnic" is the lower half of the front legs and is always sold bone-in. The Picnic was considered superior to the butts, as it tends to be leaner and less fatty, but of course you also have to pay for the bone today, and in BBQ we render out most of the fat to become delicious on its own.
I usually get the Picnics because I want a bone-in roast, and the Butts seldom are here. If I could get the bone-in butts I'd go with that if the price is right. A buck a pound is what I like to see on either cut.
PS - I'm toying with the idea of making UDS smokers as a little retirement hobby business. It's wicked easy and the materials would cost less than $100 ea. and that is if I go crazy and get domed lids for them all like mine. Drums can be had for free, if you know the right people. You burn it out, then install a few screws and nuts fr the shelves, get a $10 22" grate and make a charcoal basket, add some handles and a few close nipples and a ball valve, and you're in business.
If I thought I could get $200 each, and I think that s a fair number, I'd be happy to turn out ugly drums all day long.
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Knifemaker
Not me
Well I guess my question here is...can you just cook through the stall? (Meaning not foiling it up, and then unwrapping it) I know many smoke houses with giant smokers just put the big pork things in the smoker and don't pull them to do this.
El Toro Joe
FYYFF
I have not needed to wrap foil around a big hunk of pork, yet. Time is all you need.
Yeah, absolutely. I did all of my prior pork shoulders without crutching. Thought I'd try it this time to see if it would accelerate the process. As Ininferred, it didn't really seem to help all that much.
I still like to flip the roast to get an even browning (blackening?) of the bark when using a pit that has some direct heat like a UDS or WSM, but you should be able to just leave it be on a truly indirect heat cooker like an offset smoker. That's why I'd like to get the stoker for that pit and see if that plan works out better.
I gandered at some BGEs yesterday when in the hardware store. For the large one and the stand I'd like, I'd be looking at nearly $10k for a cooker setup (without the heat deflector stone and other accessories). Yeah, I kept walking just like I did the first time I looked. I have a kamado cooker now but if I went ceramic, it would be a different brand.
Sure. It usually takes longer as the meat starts cooling itself with evaporation. A large pork shoulder can take up to 18 hours without a crutch.
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eflyguy
Well-known member
I have an electric.. haven't used it in years. I was told they are so precise, they are banned in competition. No idea if that's true, but they do (obviously) hold the temperature.
Bark on pork - of course!! You want it mixed in for flavor AND texture.
Bark on pork - of course!! You want it mixed in for flavor AND texture.
Knifemaker
Not me
Got it on the bark now. As I never was a pulled pork aficionado, just clueless.
Yes, electric and propane smokers are not allowed in competition, but you can use either to start your fire, as long as the cooking chamber is empty. Electric accessories like rotisserie motors, or forced air devices are OK. Only wood, wood pellets, and charcoal are allowed for your heat source.
TomInPA
Well-known member
Competitions aside, I cook to eat. I'd love to have a truly set and forget setup for those times I'd rather hang in the pool or go for a ride and not worry about temperature control. It's a big commitment of time to do a brisket on the Komodo and it has to be baby-sat using remote thermometers. A big deviation in temperature, can mess things up, and let's not start on overnight smoking.
I enjoy smoking on my unit, and get very good results, but I'd be open for more automation sometimes too.
I enjoy smoking on my unit, and get very good results, but I'd be open for more automation sometimes too.
Read an expert who prefaced his book that even the competitors would never cook for friends and family like they do for competitions. They do tricks to get the judges attention in one bite that wouldn't be pleasant throughout a whole meal.
TominPA:
Here is a pellet converter complete with PID controller for an UDS. https://smokedaddyinc.com/products.html?view=ecwid#!/Pellet-Pro®-Ugly-Drum-Smoker-Conversion-Kit/p/58964148/category=16172298
Since your daughter can weld and modify. Do something like this with one of your existing keg smokers: https://smokedaddyinc.com/media/k2/galleries/92/greg+neely.JPG Or build a UDS. Or just buy from here: https://www.pitbarrelcooker.com/about-the-pbc/
Here is a video on it.
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Knifemaker
Not me
Yep.... Those look good. But I'm cheap...
For those interested:
https://www.ebay.com/p/55-gallon-drum-uds-smoker-kit-with-a-35-lb-hopper-assembly-w-pid-controller/1317553780?iid=151553591815&ul_noapp=true,true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D110544474129_324272%26itemid%3D151553591815%26targetid%3D197634909849%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D86397%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F151553591815%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9022814%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D623606627%26adgroupid%3D32762312649%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-197634909849%26gclid%3DCNOb8oP59s8CFQINaQod3RwN4w%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1114656731042,http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D110544474129_324272%26itemid%3D151553591815%26targetid%3D197634909849%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D86397%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F151553591815%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9022814%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D623606627%26adgroupid%3D32762312649%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-197634909849%26gclid%3DCNOb8oP59s8CFQINaQod3RwN4w%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1114656731042&chn=ps&lpid=82,82
This was abit misleading^ I thought it included the drum shown.
Well, lacking $450.....in a "normal" UDS....how much fiddling is there controlling the tempature and how long can you expect the fire to go with a full charcoal basket?
For those interested:
https://www.ebay.com/p/55-gallon-drum-uds-smoker-kit-with-a-35-lb-hopper-assembly-w-pid-controller/1317553780?iid=151553591815&ul_noapp=true,true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D110544474129_324272%26itemid%3D151553591815%26targetid%3D197634909849%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D86397%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F151553591815%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9022814%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D623606627%26adgroupid%3D32762312649%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-197634909849%26gclid%3DCNOb8oP59s8CFQINaQod3RwN4w%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1114656731042,http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmtid%3D1588%26kwid%3D1%26crlp%3D110544474129_324272%26itemid%3D151553591815%26targetid%3D197634909849%26rpc%3D0.20%26rpc_upld_id%3D86397%26device%3Dm%26mpre%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fulk%252Fitm%252Flike%252F151553591815%253Flpid%253D82%2526chn%253Dps%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D9022814%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D623606627%26adgroupid%3D32762312649%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-197634909849%26gclid%3DCNOb8oP59s8CFQINaQod3RwN4w%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1114656731042&chn=ps&lpid=82,82
This was abit misleading^ I thought it included the drum shown.
Well, lacking $450.....in a "normal" UDS....how much fiddling is there controlling the tempature and how long can you expect the fire to go with a full charcoal basket?
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Knifemaker:
I don't see the difference between the ebay item in your post and this: https://smokedaddyinc.com/products.html?view=ecwid#!/Pellet-Pro%C2%AE-Ugly-Drum-Smoker-Conversion-Kit/p/58964148/category=16172298
except ebay is $25 bucks more expensive. I guess you could email Smokedaddy at his website and ask.
If you want automatic smoking I guess you'll have to pay to play. If you want cheaper then try https://www.bigpoppasmokers.com/big-poppa-s-engineered-drum-smoker-kit for $139.00. you supply the drum.
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Knifemaker
Not me
Yes... I saw that. Again I thought the price included the drum!
From what I've read, UDS seem to be fairly consistent once you got them dialed in, and many say you don't need a guru for one, although they do make them...
https://bbqguru.com/storenav/gurucookerguide?DeviceModelId=169&kitId=147
That's $150 plus the price of a UDS for me....
I'm guessing I'll try the UDS offered to me and go from there...
From what I've read, UDS seem to be fairly consistent once you got them dialed in, and many say you don't need a guru for one, although they do make them...
https://bbqguru.com/storenav/gurucookerguide?DeviceModelId=169&kitId=147
That's $150 plus the price of a UDS for me....
I'm guessing I'll try the UDS offered to me and go from there...
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Knifemaker:
Here is the Mother of all UDS threads with about 845 pages: https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23436 It says the fire can last 16 hours if you do it right. Here is the sister: https://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13224 You just gotta love the pictures of some of these things.
Here is the Mother of all UDS threads with about 845 pages: https://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23436 It says the fire can last 16 hours if you do it right. Here is the sister: https://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13224 You just gotta love the pictures of some of these things.
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I've gone 16 hours in my UDS and still had some unburnt charcoal in the basket when I snuffed it out. Your only limitation is how big you want to make the basket. Mine is bigger than most you see and can easily fit a large bag of charcoal briquettes. For long even burning, briquettes are the way to go. They provide a more even heat for a longer time than lump char.
Once I get everything warmed up and the temp set using the ball valve it stays very steady with no intervention, just as long as I don't lift the lid. Problem is, with a (relatively) direct heat source below the cooking meat, the bottom side will become overdone when the top isn't done if you do not flip the meat. You may recall my fiddling around with heat diffusers and such for a while to try to eliminate this, but in the end I've just decided to flip the meat every couple of hours.
Another option for the set-it and forget it capability on a budget is to retrofit your offset cooker with a gas burner. I find that gives you a very steady heat, and the only fiddling you need to do is at the beginning when you are feeding wood into a pan over the burner to get the smoke flavor. The smoke flavor can be as intense as you want, which is nice if you want some subtlety, like with poultry or smoke-roasting loins.
What you need is a low pressure, relatively low BTU burner (not like the jet burners people use for frying turkeys) and an appropriate Low Pressure Gas regulator / hose.
This is the exact low pressure burner that I have used with good success on of my offsets (both my little COS and the OK Joe). The Low Pressure is key as that allows you to crank the heat down where you want it without risking it blowing out.
And here is the adjustable regulator and hose you need:
You just need to figure out a way to bolt it to an extra grate or something to hold it steady in the bottom of your firebox and set a cast iron pan of some kind on a grate over the burner for tossing wood chunks into. You can leave the air inlet to your FB open relatively far so you get complete gas combustion and good smoke flow through the pit. It is really easy to create TBS using a propane burner and feeding wood chunks in the hot pan.
Edit - I think that is the reason that propane and electric are outlawed in BBQ competitions: Not because the temp control is better, though that is true, It is just too easy.
Once I get everything warmed up and the temp set using the ball valve it stays very steady with no intervention, just as long as I don't lift the lid. Problem is, with a (relatively) direct heat source below the cooking meat, the bottom side will become overdone when the top isn't done if you do not flip the meat. You may recall my fiddling around with heat diffusers and such for a while to try to eliminate this, but in the end I've just decided to flip the meat every couple of hours.
Another option for the set-it and forget it capability on a budget is to retrofit your offset cooker with a gas burner. I find that gives you a very steady heat, and the only fiddling you need to do is at the beginning when you are feeding wood into a pan over the burner to get the smoke flavor. The smoke flavor can be as intense as you want, which is nice if you want some subtlety, like with poultry or smoke-roasting loins.
What you need is a low pressure, relatively low BTU burner (not like the jet burners people use for frying turkeys) and an appropriate Low Pressure Gas regulator / hose.
This is the exact low pressure burner that I have used with good success on of my offsets (both my little COS and the OK Joe). The Low Pressure is key as that allows you to crank the heat down where you want it without risking it blowing out.
And here is the adjustable regulator and hose you need:
You just need to figure out a way to bolt it to an extra grate or something to hold it steady in the bottom of your firebox and set a cast iron pan of some kind on a grate over the burner for tossing wood chunks into. You can leave the air inlet to your FB open relatively far so you get complete gas combustion and good smoke flow through the pit. It is really easy to create TBS using a propane burner and feeding wood chunks in the hot pan.
Edit - I think that is the reason that propane and electric are outlawed in BBQ competitions: Not because the temp control is better, though that is true, It is just too easy.
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Knifemaker
Not me
I've been leaning towards going with the propane conversion for some time. As much as I appreciate the offer to borrow Andy's UDS, I still really like the concept of indirect cookers, which is why I went with the offset reverse to begin with.
Luckily it shouldn't be very hard to put in a propane burner. As you can see from this photo when they were building my smoker:
There is an "ash drawer" at the bottom of the FB that I can just pull out, and then just slide in the burner in its place. Then I just need to slide out the charcoal basket above it and slide in some kind of pan for the wood. If I need to go back to charcoal, everything should just pull out....hopefully it will be that simple.
Thanks for the links Fred. May just stop by Home Depot and see if they have that in stock.
Luckily it shouldn't be very hard to put in a propane burner. As you can see from this photo when they were building my smoker:
There is an "ash drawer" at the bottom of the FB that I can just pull out, and then just slide in the burner in its place. Then I just need to slide out the charcoal basket above it and slide in some kind of pan for the wood. If I need to go back to charcoal, everything should just pull out....hopefully it will be that simple.
Thanks for the links Fred. May just stop by Home Depot and see if they have that in stock.
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I doubt that Home Despot will have either of those pieces in stock locally, but you should be able to order them online. I actually ordered mine from Amazon when I bought them, but when I went searching for the same pieces the only good links I could find were to HD.
I'm starting to realize now (yeah, just 3 years after I started this thread about meat smoking) that this whole thing, like most other parts of life, is a big series of compromises.
The vertical cookers (drums, WSMs, Kamado cookers, etc.) are all super efficient with fuel, will hold a steady temp for long periods with minimal fiddling, and all do a credible job of producing great 'Que, but being directly heated to varying extent are not ideal smokers.
Horizontal cookers with offset or indirect heat, are generally better smokers, but you end up tending the fire itself more to get a steady temp, and they are not nearly as fuel efficient as a vertical since there is so much more metal and so much of the heat gets shed by smoke's circuitous path through the pit.
Using cheaper split wood as your fuel on an indirect pit is an option to offset the fuel efficiency that may also give you superior wood smoke flavor, but you will pay for that with even more fire tending required.
Offset pellet burners are a pretty nifty idea, but you are somewhat limited to the types of wood pellets available, and the cost of the fuel is not cheap.
Burning gas in any pit gives a nice steady temp, but you will not get as much continuous smoke, and therefore less smoke flavor in the final product, as compared to burning wood or charcoal. And they aren't as much fun since you don't get to indulge your pyromania. Same thing goes, maybe to an even greater extent, for electric smokers.
I guess we all just get to pick what amount of effort we want to make and how picky we are going to be about the end product.
I'm starting to realize now (yeah, just 3 years after I started this thread about meat smoking) that this whole thing, like most other parts of life, is a big series of compromises.
The vertical cookers (drums, WSMs, Kamado cookers, etc.) are all super efficient with fuel, will hold a steady temp for long periods with minimal fiddling, and all do a credible job of producing great 'Que, but being directly heated to varying extent are not ideal smokers.
Horizontal cookers with offset or indirect heat, are generally better smokers, but you end up tending the fire itself more to get a steady temp, and they are not nearly as fuel efficient as a vertical since there is so much more metal and so much of the heat gets shed by smoke's circuitous path through the pit.
Using cheaper split wood as your fuel on an indirect pit is an option to offset the fuel efficiency that may also give you superior wood smoke flavor, but you will pay for that with even more fire tending required.
Offset pellet burners are a pretty nifty idea, but you are somewhat limited to the types of wood pellets available, and the cost of the fuel is not cheap.
Burning gas in any pit gives a nice steady temp, but you will not get as much continuous smoke, and therefore less smoke flavor in the final product, as compared to burning wood or charcoal. And they aren't as much fun since you don't get to indulge your pyromania. Same thing goes, maybe to an even greater extent, for electric smokers.
I guess we all just get to pick what amount of effort we want to make and how picky we are going to be about the end product.
Knifemaker
Not me
And there it is Fred...you summed it all up well. My primary goal was to have something that could smoke up a butt load of ribs without me needing to flip them around, with hanging around the 4 to 6 hours to tend the flames not much of an issue to me. So pretty damn happy with my pit so far... But...
Now intrigued with the idea of cooking up a big ass pork shoulder or brisqutte, I realize the time I'd have to devote. ..so looking for a simplistic alternative has come up. Not really even sure if doing up some pulled pork or a big brisqutte is something I'll get into... But hell, you got to check it out right? I actually was at a Lowes today and they had the "high pressure" burners, and the some nice regulators with stainless hoses... But...I'll likely just order them online.
Again...been happy as f*#k with my smoker ...everything I've done on it so far has been freaking awesome...and I'm just a FNG in the smoking world. So, anyway, my next question here is...if you're using a gas burner, and adding wood for your smoke, which is better, wood chunks, chips, or pellets?
Now intrigued with the idea of cooking up a big ass pork shoulder or brisqutte, I realize the time I'd have to devote.
..so looking for a simplistic alternative has come up. Not really even sure if doing up some pulled pork or a big brisqutte is something I'll get into... But hell, you got to check it out right? I actually was at a Lowes today and they had the "high pressure" burners, and the some nice regulators with stainless hoses... But...I'll likely just order them online.Again...been happy as f*#k with my smoker ...everything I've done on it so far has been freaking awesome...and I'm just a FNG in the smoking world. So, anyway, my next question here is...if you're using a gas burner, and adding wood for your smoke, which is better, wood chunks, chips, or pellets?
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