So, maybe you don't want a Gen 3 YCC-S

[mcatrophy]

This isn't a plea for help or technical input, maybe just for a bit of moral support. Or typical FJRforum abuse and ridicule.

I've always acclaimed the virtues of my YCC-S endowed bikes. Without them, I wouldn't be riding. However ...

Earlier this year, I was touring with friends when my bike decided it would throw a wobbly, it stopped changing gear. Flicking my finger-switch did nothing, nor did the foot lever. A margin of panic sets in at this stage, I'm miles from home, probably out of cell-phone service (this is somewhere in Scotland, where the only inhabitants are sheep, so the cell-phone service companies see little need for their towers).

Anyway, I slow to a stop, the bike won't change down, nor does the clutch disengage, the engine stalls.

The bikes in front of me disappear round the next corner, the ones behind stop.

I look at the display, the ABS light is blinking, another amber light is on, at the time I don't know what it is. Apart from that, no lights, even though I normally have the cruise control enabled, its amber light is off, and I have usually have the auto-change down enabled, its green light is off. I see no error codes, the LCD display is normal.

So I turn off the ignition. Then, more in hope than expectation, I turn on the ignition. The fuel pump whirs. I press the start switch, the engine starts. So, the clutch must have disengaged. Check the display, normal. Flick the gear-change switch, we're in 1st. "Whey-hey" thinks I, it's just a blip. And yes, Off we go, bike behaves all innocently as if nothing has happened.

Except - this repeats a couple more times over the next few days.

This is happening just a few days before my two-year warranty period expires. As soon as I can after I get home, I book the bike in for its 12000 mile service (yes, I don't get out enough) and explain my symptoms, including the SH__51 I found in its diagnostic history - "Detected position of shift actuator sensor is incorrect."

The date of the service is actually past the warranty period, but that is not an issue since I'd informed them before. The work they did and parts they replaced were covered. They did produce some diagnostic stuff that doesn't really point to any one cause, and they changed the rear wheel speed sensor (might have caused the computer some confusion?).

This was back in June, I get the bike back, it's behaving.

I barely use it for a couple of months, then the second week in September I'm back in Scotland again with my son and the friend who normally organises our little trips, he wants to try out a couple of options for the tour he's organising for next year.

And the problem re-occurs, several times.

Since every time it seems to recover after cycling the ignition, I'm not panicking, but it did occur once going in to some very tight up-hill hairpins. Being stuck in 4th at 15mph going up-hill is too much even for the FJR, the bike stalls to a halt. I manage to keep it upright. Before I can set off again, a van nearly runs into the back of me (these hairpins are blind!), there's a several hundred foot shear drop on my nearside. Luckily for me he stops in time. Don't know what he must have thought of me - Some damned tourist admiring the view? On a motorcycle? In the middle of the (very narrow) road? Bloody fool.

Anyway, I set off again to catch my riding companions. Normally I really enjoy catching up but not so much this time, my adrenaline must have been of the wrong kind.

So I eventually get back home, talk to my dealer.

The (somewhat abridged) conversation between Me and my Dealer goes like this:

M - "It's done it again."
D - "We'll book it in and look at it."
M - "It should still be covered by the warranty since it's obviously the same problem that wasn't resolved the first time."
D - "We'll diagnose the problem, then we'll talk to Yamaha and see whether they'll cover it."

So, Monday this week I take it in. "We'll ring you when we know anything." My Better half brings me back from the dealer.

Now, to complicate the situation, my Better Half is going away Tuesday morning for the rest of the week, so she won't be available to ferry me to or from the dealer after Monday. So, late afternoon Monday, I phone up.

M - "What news?"
D - "We're still diagnosing."
M - "Is Yamaha paying for it?"
D - "Don't know yet, we don't know what's wrong. We'll give you a ring when we have anything."

So, Tuesday late afternoon, I ring up again, worried about the many hours of "diagnosing" I might have to pay for.

M - "What news?"
D - "We're still diagnosing."
M - "Is Yamaha paying for it?"
D - "Don't know yet, we don't know what's wrong. We'll give you a ring when we have anything."

We've been here before. Wallet panic starts to creep in.

M - "I don't want you to rack up a huge bill on me, your workshop hourly rate is not insignificant." (There's a bit of paraphrasing going on here.)
D - "Don't worry, we wouldn't do that to you."

So, that was Tuesday. It's now Thursday. I'm sitting here moping, no bike, no BH (she invariably finds me things to do so I don't have time to mope), no news.

Looking outside, it's cool, sunny and dry, and apart from being a little windy, perfect riding weather. And I'm stuck inside. Writing this.

B*gg*r.

Addendum 1: Missive I wrote taking the bike in for the first time:

Sometime between 20th and 24th June 2016

Problem occurred twice.

The first time, I noticed I was in 4th, tried to change to 5th, nothing happened. Couldn't study the display as I was in traffic, but the display looked wrong, I later think the speed was showing '0', and the ABS light was flashing. I didn't notice any fault code, but I couldn't look for it at the time. Came to a stop, I think the automatic change-down functioned. [i later think I mis-remembered this, I believe it auto-changed down after the ignition was turned back on.]

Turned off the ignition, turned it on, then all systems seemed normal, and I could carry on.

The second time, again I couldn't study the display, but I think the speed read '0', the ABS light was flashing, and the engine light was on. This time I found I could change down, but couldn't change up. While still moving, I turned off the ignition and turned it on. The tacho did its sweep, but I can't say if the rest of the turn-on display was normal. There was no recovery. This time, when I stopped, the engine stalled, no change-down, no clutch disengagement. I may not have had the automatic change-down activated, I normally do, but it sometimes gets turned off by my tank-bag.

Ignition off then on, all seemed ok, and it's behaved since.

My own thought is that the rear wheel sensor was the problem, this would be consistent with at least some of the symptoms. I did a visual check but could see nothing amiss. No fault codes when turning on the ignition.

Addendum 2: Diagnostic sheets given to me after the service:
(Click on image for larger view)



Addendum 3: Missive I wrote taking the bike in the second time:

This is a repeat of the problem I had a couple of months ago, first noticed some time between 20th and 24th June 2016, that you'd attempted to fix. The symptoms vary slightly on different occasions, however, as far as I can recall:
1. The most common symptom starts with me being unable to change gear. I look at the display:

The ABS light is flashing;

The YCC-S system warning light is on (not the engine light as I'd mistakenly said before;

No other lights are on, even though I normally run with the Stop function activated and the Cruise Control system indicator light on. Both of these lights are off.

All other displays (speed, fuel, mode etc) normal (again, I'd previously thought the speed read zero, but this is not the case, certainly on these occasions).

All other systems seem to work, I can change display modes etc.

Coming to rest, the clutch does not disengage, the engine stalls as I stop, still in 4th gear.

Turning the ignition off then on puts everything back to normal.

On one occasion I stayed riding (in 4th gear) for maybe ten minutes, it didn't show any signs of recovery.

2. Occasionally I'll be in 4th, try to select 5th, but it doesn't change. No other indication of a problem. After 2 or 3 more attempts it will change. Tried once with the foot change, that didn't change either. After it has finally changed, it continues normally. (Until the next time.)

During one of the type 1 episodes, I did try turning off the ignition while still moving. After turning it back on, the engine restarted, the display was not normal, I can't remember exactly what it was. The gear-change would work either up or down (again I can't remember which) but not both, and coming to rest the clutch did disengage. I still had to cycle the ignition to get back to normal. On another occasion, I tried cycling the ignition while still moving, this time the cutch disengaged so the engine didn't restart by itself (I didn't attempt to start it using the starter motor.) I can't be absolutely certain I've remembered these events correctly.

This always seems to happen with the bike in 4th gear, but this may be simply coincidence. I can't think of anything else common to the events.

These symptoms are, as far as I remember, the same as they were before. Your first attempt at a fix was around 5/7/16, just under 12000 miles on the ODO. Since then I'd done about 500 miles before the symptoms started again, it's done about another 1000 as I write this.

One other thing that may be related, for two days I was riding with the bike behaving as if the suspension was set to SOFT even though the display said HARD – it was wallowing badly in corners. It seemed to be better after I cycled the selection to SOFT, then back to HARD. Can't be 100% sure of this, I'd run out of the yumpy corners. Anyway, previously I was told there was some sort of inter-unit communication error flagged in the diagnostic history, maybe this affected my original selection of HARD??? Just a thought.

I would point out that this is a potentially dangerous issue. It happened once when I was climbing up a steep hill round a series of hairpins. Being unable to change gear, the bike simply stopped, I was nearly rammed by a van that was behind. Which would have been a shame, I'd had to work quite hard to keep the bike upright. And, while it would have technically been his fault if he'd run into me, I still could have been hurt, particularly if I'd fallen over the side of the road down the several hundred foot shear drop that was beside me!

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Good luck mac.

 

[RossKean]

You obviously need a clutch!

This sort of failure is disturbing because it could be so dangerous. In North America, it is the sort of thing that would become a mandatory recall if it happened to more than one bike. I am sympathetic and I sincerely hope that Yamaha treats you right! I also hope they find the "real" root cause rather than try to fix it by randomly changing parts that might be related to the symptoms.

Good luck!

 

[wheatonFJR]

Good luck with your resolution...I hope it all comes out well with the minimum of pain.

 

[gapiob]

good luke.

the problem of this gearbox is that whenever there is a significant abnormality on the bike, sir Yamaha has found nothing better than to block everything ...
A friend had it on this winter 2013 frights like yours because of... its battery ... ....
low battery gives abs error
abs error causes blockage of the gearbox.

The battery became again just above the minimum for the abs ECU hop it work again ... and so on ... And all the rest worked well ...

 

[RaYzerman19]

Has sounds of electrical to me..... worth a load test of the battery, since there seem to be issues with multiple ECU's. If the battery is OK, perhaps also check the ECU connections for corrosion/oxidation, the most likely one is the main ECU that the others communicate with?

 

[radiummadman]

sounds like I sure am glad this is not happening to me.

 

[lonerider]

Hope it acts up while your dealer has it and they can resolve the problem. Nothing worse than trying to chase down an intermittent electrical problem.

 

[El Toro]

I am empathetic, and as a rider who lusts for a Gen III YCC-S model, I am sad to hear about this turn of events.

Gen II YCC-S model will be out of Y.E.S. coverage in April.

Maybe it's time to let the Gen III YCC-S goal go.

I checked the other day to see if the VFR-1200 with the computer controlled clutch would also have cruise control, and nothing that I found suggested that this would be the case, so I am thinking that I'll just have to suck it up and, when I can't clutch anymore, or throttle any more, I'll have to be done.

For right now, I'm nursing the right hand, and cruise control would be very nice to have.

Later, it will probably be the left hand again. Maybe I should just give up the guitar.

Most of my hand problems seem to be attributable to guitar issues.

 

[Steve in Phx]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Best wishes sent your way.

As others have stated, it does sounds like an electrical issue. Just a guess, but could there be a loose connector on a wiring harness? Had any maintenance been done in the past 1000 miles? Any electrical connectors that might be shaking loose while the bike is wallowing around on a soft shock at high revs on twisty roads in damp weather?

 

[escapefjrtist]

Yikes...not a good position to be put in mcatrophy. Hope the dealer is able to diagnose the problem and the mother ship has a fix.

Good luck!

--G

 

[HotRodZilla]

That sucks. Hope they're able to fix it without top many shenanigans.

 

[Viper Pilot]

Sure love my Gen 1!

 

[PhilJet09]

Sure love my Gen 1!

That's real helpful. :no2:

 

[El Toro]

Sure love my Gen 1!

You should be sure to save it and keep it in good condition.

Yours must be the only Gen 1 YCC-S model in existence. Maybe it was an abandoned prototype. I'm sure it's worth a gajillion dollars.

 

[Viper Pilot]

LOL! Sorry guys for the cheap comment. However, some times it just takes a mfgr. time to catch up to technology. Hell, even Boeing struggled with their latest designs and such things as the Li batteries and initial quality of their composit parts and assys. I'm sure mother Yamaha will get things figured out by the time Gen 4 rolls around!

 

[BanjoBoy]

TLR

(Nothing to see here!)

So you have a 2014 ES AE? Cool!

I've had the same thang happen to me, 'n see'in my '07 AE iz way outta warranty, I've just learned to ride a round it.

Back when I rode primitive clutch bikes, I got in the bad habit of just pull'in in the clutch, focusing on my braking, then downshifting when in emergency braking. Whenever my AE gets stuck in gear, it's always after emergency braking, so what I've learned to do, is rev the thing a little more; I'm usually at 4 K RPMs or above.

Also, I try to blip the throttle between downshifts whilst braking hard. There's something about chopping the throttle, and trying to downshift w/ too few RPMs that causes this getting stuck in gear thang, so I've found that if I can blip the throttle it doesn't occur.

I've also been able to cycle the ignition off while on the fly, butt that only works if yer above maybe 50 mph not in the low speed uphill scenario you mentioned.

It'd be real easy fer the shop to duplicate; just have 'em go 60 MPH in 4th gear, garb a handful of brakes, slow down to 10 MPH, 'n have 'em try to downshift.

Good luck.

 

[wheatonFJR]

TLR

So you have a 2014 ES AE? Cool!

I've had the same thang happen to me, 'n see'in my '07 AE iz way outta warranty, I've just learned to ride a round it.

Back when I rode primitive clutch bikes, I got in the bad habit of just pull'in in the clutch, focusing on my braking, then downshifting when in emergency braking. Whenever my AE gets stuck in gear, it's always after emergency braking, so what I've learned to do, is rev the thing a little more; I'm usually at 4 K RPMs or above.

Also, I try to blip the throttle between downshifts whilst braking hard. There's something about chopping the throttle, and trying to downshift w/ too few RPMs that causes this getting stuck in gear thang, so I've found that if I can blip the throttle it doesn't occur.

I've also been able to cycle the ignition off while on the fly, butt that only works if yer above maybe 50 mph not in the low speed uphill scenario you mentioned.

It'd be real easy fer the shop to duplicate; just have 'em go 60 MPH in 4th gear, garb a handful of brakes, slow down to 10 MPH, 'n have 'em try to downshift.

Good luck.

You know, you would be a lot more believable if you didn't play the banjo so well.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Just to be sure it's not a mechanical issue, pull the left side panel off and check that the two screws that hold the actuator on the bracket are not loose. Particularly the rear one where a couple of folks had breakage of the ear on the rear screw........ actuator movement might cause error codes? while you're in there check that the bracket (welded to the rear subframe tube) is secure (it likely is or you would have total inop). But, given you seem to have inter-communication issues with the ABS and ES modules, I'd check the electricals I mentioned first. If not cured then, next stop is dealer for warranty.