Spank Daily News

[Bounce]

but he cannot have it both ways.

Sure (s)he can. It's the nature of endurance riding that the RM's word is the final word. NO WHINING is the mantra. If you don't like it, you participate in a different rally or develop your own. If you're LUCKY people will like your way of doing things and participate. If not, then you'll be at the starting line with nothing but crickets chirping.

Any situation within a rally is between the RM and the rider. If, before disclosure, the rider asks the RM to keep it under their hat, then the RM can so choose. If the RM asks the same of the rider, then ditto. At any other time, it's the rider than can so choose to disclose major fax paus when an RM has chosen to not report same. If the rider then choosed to withhold that info, we (as endurance keyboardists) should keep our yaps shut and be happy for the info we do get to read.

 

[chickey191]

I am probably going to get flamed for this post but I think it is inconsistent for the RM to use this forum to promote the event, set up a website to provide daily results, invite everyone to follow the event -- and then refuse to answer questions about the scoring and why some riders lost points. I can understand the RM's desire to keep some things confidential but he cannot have it both ways. Whether the purpose of the public disclosure is to encourage more riders to participate and/or to generate interest and goodwill, anything that is publicly disclosed in the daily results should also be explained if questions are asked.
These events take a lot of time, funds, and efforts both for the organizers and the riders, and anyone considering participation in future events has a right to know exactly what they are getting into -- and I think the questions that have been asked are appropriate and deserve an answer.

Can't have it both ways??? why in the hell not? The RM comes up with a concept for a rally, rides a zillion miles checking everything once or twice or more. Has friends ride parts to double check on details. Spends time and money organizing, planning and putting their neck on the line so folks can have fun and participate. They wear out tires and spend LOTS and LOTS of time scouting, cross checking and wordsmithing countless documents. They proofread till they go blind and like I said - put themselves, their families and friends in some legal danger whenever they put a rally on. Putting on a rally that is "different" takes a lot. Lots of folks can run a big scavenger hunt, but it takes creativity to do something different. If the RM can't have it both ways, then I would suggest that most riders would appreciate it if NOTHING was ever posted on the net again. Wouldn't hurt the RM's feelings either. No updates - no results. Just quiet during and after every rally. How does that sound?

I'll answer my own question - It DOESN'T SOUND TOO GOOD TO ME. If the RM and contestant have something they don't want to share, then so be it. It could be embarrasing for one or both. It could be a legal issue that no one needs to know - it could be a personal item that doesn't need to be shared on the internet - how about a health issue? None of this is anyone's business. Not your bike insurance company - the local constabulary - your worried family - your boss who thinks you are home sick - your medical insurance nor your next door neighbor or the guy down the street who would love to know that you are out of town and you forgot and left the back door open.

Of course - you have a right to ask the question. But you were given an answer - a thoughtful one that should be the end of it. You were given an source to go to, should you "need" a better answer and were told that this is all you are going to get.

If you don't want to ride in the next SPANK - fine by me. Send me your real name and I can probably ensure that you won't have to worry about any other rallies, if you would like. Or.....

take the answer given - in the manner it was given - and live with it. Or...

ask Skooter if he wants to share, or....

LET IT GO.

Actually - I think GZ showed a great deal of restraint in his answer. I should probably have just copied his and been done with it - but I couldn't. Sorry George. You were nicer than I.

 

[GunMD]

Can't have it both ways??? why in the hell not? The RM comes up with a concept for a rally, rides a zillion miles checking everything once or twice or more. Has friends ride parts to double check on details. Spends time and money organizing, planning and putting their neck on the line so folks can have fun and participate. They wear out tires and spend LOTS and LOTS of time scouting, cross checking and wordsmithing countless documents. They proofread till they go blind and like I said - put themselves, their families and friends in some legal danger whenever they put a rally on. Putting on a rally that is "different" takes a lot. Lots of folks can run a big scavenger hunt, but it takes creativity to do something different. If the RM can't have it both ways, then I would suggest that most riders would appreciate it if NOTHING was ever posted on the net again. Wouldn't hurt the RM's feelings either. No updates - no results. Just quiet during and after every rally. How does that sound?
I'll answer my own question - It DOESN'T SOUND TOO GOOD TO ME. If the RM and contestant have something they don't want to share, then so be it. It could be embarrasing for one or both. It could be a legal issue that no one needs to know - it could be a personal item that doesn't need to be shared on the internet - how about a health issue? None of this is anyone's business. Not your bike insurance company - the local constabulary - your worried family - your boss who thinks you are home sick - your medical insurance nor your next door neighbor or the guy down the street who would love to know that you are out of town and you forgot and left the back door open.

Of course - you have a right to ask the question. But you were given an answer - a thoughtful one that should be the end of it. You were given an source to go to, should you "need" a better answer and were told that this is all you are going to get.

If you don't want to ride in the next SPANK - fine by me. Send me your real name and I can probably ensure that you won't have to worry about any other rallies, if you would like. Or.....

take the answer given - in the manner it was given - and live with it. Or...

ask Skooter if he wants to share, or....

LET IT GO.

Actually - I think GZ showed a great deal of restraint in his answer. I should probably have just copied his and been done with it - but I couldn't. Sorry George. You were nicer than I.

Very well put. Now I just hope that there are no ass-clowns hell-bent on ruining the daily updates for those of us who enjoy reading them.

(This post should not be perceived as a personal attack...unless you are certain that you're an ass-clown.)

 

[twowheelnut]

Very well put. Now I just hope that there are no ass-clowns hell-bent on ruining the daily updates for those of us who enjoy reading them.
(This post should not be perceived as a personal attack...unless you are certain that you're an ass-clown.)

Actually, Gunny, I think you may have inadvertently nailed the lid shut on the reports with that post. If I were an RM (don't laugh too hard now) and didn't want certain things made public, then I sure as hell wouldn't publish reports on the rally that would lead people to question the results. On the other hand, if as an RM I choose to make public reports, then one might assume certain aspects of those reports would be questioned in a public forum such as this. Why would I want the headaches? Simple enough for me to decide - I wouldn't.

Too, I think this whole discussion has gone way overboard. Someone simply asked 'what happened' (as any curious bystander might) and he got ripped a new one and is made to be an ******/clown/commie/whatever. Truthfully, this whole deal strikes me as, well, odd. Though in the end, I don't really need to know what happened nor - after a lenghty ponder - do I really care.

 

[madmike2]

As the one who began this lengthy debate/bitch session/opinion page/diatribe, after WFO I was interested in L.D.events so I read the different reports with great interest, especially after meeting many of the FJR L.D. riders. As one new to the scoring and governance of rallies I simply didn't understand and merely wanted the issue clarified before I decided if this really was something I wanted to devote time, money and energy toward. After reading the reports, I still couldn't glean the exact information I was seeking and the links were no help (That's my personal problem as I don't have the extra 4 or 5 hours to sit here and read every article hoping to find an answer) when I was asking for a rules detail.

I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion by some and certainly has become a dais for some who are self-righteous. It was never my intent to erect a lightning rod for what has followed. In my not-so-humble-opinion, everyone should just let this rest.

BTW, I got my answer on the second page of the thread, I'm assuming everyone read this and understood (Reading comprehension, remember?):

1. No whining2. The RM is always right (and, by extension, their decisions are final)

All other rules reference back to these 2 basics.

While I have not made a final decision whether or not to participate, that will be personal, involving my conscience, my cognitive ability to make an adult decision and my choice to test myself against the regimens and rules proscribed by a particular Rally Master...or not. The only owners who will know that end decision will be the particular RM and any other riders who recognize me if I show up at a rally.

Until then, I will continue to enjoy my FJR and the riding community in general. In memory of our fallen brother and his family, why not let this thread die. Or admins, why not close it?

 

[Bounce]

BTW, I got my answer on the second page of the thread, I'm assuming everyone read this and understood (Reading comprehension, remember?):

1. No whining

2. The RM is always right (and, by extension, their decisions are final)

All other rules reference back to these 2 basics.

While I have not made a final decision whether or not to participate, that will be personal, involving my conscience, my cognitive ability to make an adult decision and my choice to test myself against the regimens and rules proscribed by a particular Rally Master...or not. The only owners who will know that end decision will be the particular RM and any other riders who recognize me if I show up at a rally.

As an aside, I have never seen an RM that didn't go out of their way to make sure each rider has an oportunity to understand each bonus requirement. Sometimes someone doesn't understand and doesn't take advantage of the provisions for clarification. It's when this happens that the rules above tend to come into play.

 

[GunMD]

Actually, Gunny, I think you may have inadvertently nailed the lid shut on the reports with that post. If I were an RM (don't laugh too hard now) and didn't want certain things made public, then I sure as hell wouldn't publish reports on the rally that would lead people to question the results. On the other hand, if as an RM I choose to make public reports, then one might assume certain aspects of those reports would be questioned in a public forum such as this. Why would I want the headaches? Simple enough for me to decide - I wouldn't.
Too, I think this whole discussion has gone way overboard. Someone simply asked 'what happened' (as any curious bystander might) and he got ripped a new one and is made to be an ******/clown/commie/whatever. Truthfully, this whole deal strikes me as, well, odd. Though in the end, I don't really need to know what happened nor - after a lenghty ponder - do I really care.

I certainly hope I don't contribute to the downfall of the online "live" report. I think it does positive things for the sport. That being said, I certainly understand your point here. I know GZ put a lot of time and effort into this rally and I seriously doubt that he'd allow this thread to change his approach. After all, if you've read other threads / lists / forums you've likely seen the praise that GZ has received regarding the SPANK rally (if not for his motorcycle's hygiene)

Bottom line in my book...participating in any rally gives you a great appreciation for the RM, the event, the other participants, and yourself. All of those things are what make it fun.