First off...Thank you for creating this thread. The initial thread is a good one so I didn't want it to get interrupted. But this subject certainly needs to be addressed before our sport dwindles even more.
For those that may not know...I live in the heart of the AR twisties and have ridden these roads for many years. By request I lead visiting groups of riders every weekend in the Spring and Fall. Some are capable experienced riders I know, some are experienced riders I just met, some are ok riders that are smart enough to know their limitation and some don't have a clue how to ride mountainous twisties. I am sure each of you have probably experienced some level of the same thing at these 'get togethers'.
I thoroughly enjoy these rides and the camaraderie. However, over the years I have grown tired of the 'pre ride group speech' and additionally the thought that whomever is leading is responsible for riders that may be behind them. The riders behind the leader are adults and should be totally and solely responsible for their own actions... period. To suggest that their stupidity and decisions to ride over their heads is somehow the leaders fault...is simply not right. It is simply a way to not be responsible for your own decisions and actions. America has enough of this already...let's please not include it in our sport. Also as riders, perhaps we should not 'accept' the fact that people may knowingly decide to ride over their heads. Perhaps we should not put up with it instead of making concessions and telling them it is not their fault. If we allow a BullShit lawsuit to happen due to this thinking, it will be the end of 'group rides'. Think about it???
I no longer lead group rides as in my mind there is no such thing as a group ride. Rather I suggest that more than one motorcyclist has gathered in a particular location and may be riding at the same time and perhaps to the same destination. I ride the way I enjoy and every other motorcyclist on these public roads rides how they enjoy. It's all good!
In place of the pre ride speech, I created a 3 page document that addresses recommendations and suggested courtesies when people accumulate and ride in mountainous areas. I do not use 'group' terminology. Also there is info on particulars of Arkansas for the benefit of riders who have not been here before. I will attempt to attach it.
* Todays Ride *
I am going for a ride today on public roads and one or more people will be riding at the same time and perhaps with the same destinations. When motorcyclists ride in mountainous remote areas, additional responsibilities and courtesies have proven to assist with a timely, enjoyable and SAFE riding experience for all motorcyclists. If you are not comfortable with this fact and willing to accept these suggestionsplease reconsider or perhaps ride elsewhere.
The street is not a racetrack! No one really cares how fast or slow you arebesides there is ALWAYS someone faster or slower than you. The only important thing is to have fun safely. First place on the streets and the true winner is the one who smiles the mostperiod!
Ride your own pace! Ride how YOU are comfortable and confident ridingnot the pace that a rider in front of you is comfortable and confident riding. I will be riding at the pace I enjoy at any given time. You are solely responsible to do the same. The most respected riders are the ones who ride within their abilities at any given time.
Potentially dangerous comments I have actually heard;
I like to follow you because I know if you can make the cornerI can make it. Sport touring bikes handle quite well...even 2 up!
I like to follow you because if I see your brake light, I know it is a bad corner. My bike has very good engine braking. More importantly, I am a dumbassthere aint no telling when or why I may hit my brakes.
I like to follow you so I can see and follow your lines. There could be a blind corner I am familiar with that may surprise/startle you.
I like to follow you because you know where all of the bad corners are located. Yes, but I have been known to daydream and look around too much.
I like to follow you so I dont have to worry about where we are. Please have a decent idea of where WE are shall that info become necessary.
I like to follow you because I ride to slow when I lead. Then you definitely need to slow down or lead for a while!
You are on a public road and solely responsible for your safety! Ride smart. Take a moment to think about all that you would have to do if you go down. Assume you are ok but your bike is unrideable. What now? How and when are you getting home and what will it cost?
Have sight of another rider at all times and be aware. There are many areas on mountainous roads where if you have an incident and no one sees it happen it could be very difficult to find you. Be aware of the tendencies of a rider that is behind you. Know how far back he/she usually rides. When safe, briefly check your mirrors to insure they are still riding. If they are not, slow till you see them and then continue. Remember, they are keeping an eye on you as well. If they do not appear in your mirror in appropriate time, stop and recall where they were the last time you saw them. Turnaround and keep your eyes peeled until you meet another rider. Stop and discuss the situation to insure fellow rider does not need assistance.
Realize at any time it is possible for a rider that is in front of you to suddenly pull away from you. Recognize when this happens and realize there is now 1 less set of eyes on each of you. Be aware of where others are on the road and lookout for their possible need for assistance.
If you are not having a serious problem but need to stopstop and wave other riders on by unless you need to communicate. Promptly continue on when you can.
Stop at every road change/intersection until the rider behind you arrives. Proceed once all known riders are accounted for. No man left behind.
Do NOT exit a road without someone knowing. If you do and no one knows, some observant and considerate motorcyclists will be looking for you!!! If for whatever reason you need to depart, inform another rider you have decided to travel another direction.
If someone is riding to close behind you when safe slow a bit move right and wave them by.
If someone is riding to slow in front of youride to their left in the high line until they wave you past. When someone waves you past, only pass when YOU deem it safe to do so.
Couple Suggestions:
If you see a mailbox, there could be hazards. Cars, driveways, gravel, pets, children, etc.
Corners that may have sand/gravel/etcstay in the high or low linedo not cross.
If you find yourself to hot in a cornerlook where you want to go, point your nose and lean it!
If you overcook a right corner that is not blind and there is no oncoming trafficit may be better to run wide into the oncoming lane rather than to stab a handful of brake.
ARKANSAS SPECIFICS:
Corner speed caution signs
Arkansas simply puts up a sign before a 'set' of corners with the direction of the first turn and the suggested speed of the tightest corner in the group. A sign that states 25 mph left hand turn ahead does not necessarily mean that the next turn is a 25mph lefty. The 25mph corner could be 3 turns away. Also, the tight corner may actually be a right hander.
Passing on double yellow
Obviously this is against the law and not suggested. However, should you attempt to pass on a downhill, make sure that you can see the entire CONTINUOUS double yellow line all the way to the >bottom< of the hill before you attempt to pass. Some hills/valleys here adjust elevation/slope several times during the decent. This can give the illusion that the lane is clear, however, there is actually an oncoming vehicle that you cannot see due to the drop in the road. Also, some (very few) locals get pissed if you attempt to pass. Be aware of a possible retaliation swerve.
SPEED Jasper, Pindell and MarshallDO NOT SPEED! Not even 1 mph over. Notorious leo/speed traps. Also 7 from the Hub to Jasper does not have speed traps but leos/park rangers do travel it often in route to/from Harrison. That road can be challenging and fun at the posted speed limit of 55mph. State police use KA band, County uses K band. If you get an alert with Ksmile!
Also, please be courteous in all of the rural small towns and adjust your speed as appropriate. No need to give motorcyclists a bad name and more importantly there could be young children playing near the streets. You would not want vehicles going down your street at 90MPH! There are plenty of roads/areas in the forests where you can get all you have the courage to attempt...so please just relax for a bit when in populated areas.
Frickin Chat
Arkansas DOT throws out sand/small gravel during winter. Should be against the law! Most will be washed off roads but in uphill/downhill corner sections there could still be accumulations. It is slick and can/will cause tire slippage. It usually is an off white lighter color than the chipseal road surface. Learn to recognize it.
Concealed Carry
Arkansas is a reciprocal state, however, you must have a permit to have a loaded handgun within immediate reach (on person or tankbag). If you do not have a legal permit your weapon must be outside immediate reach and unloaded (saddlebag).
Pace
This is where we started and where we will end. RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE...not the pace of the the rider in front of you. Be comfortable and confident your entire ride, especially towards the end of your day. Remember we are not here to race but to have a good time. The true winner is the one who smiles the most...regardless of speed!
Well I got it to paste but all of the formats are gone. Sorry for the hard and long read.