Stalling

[John]

2012 FJR 1300 Gen II 26,000New York CityMonthly commute: 1,000 milesIdle problem has returned with the cold weather.I have tried fuel stabilizer (SeaFoam). I've changed the spark plugs recently and done throttle body sync. Air filter is 6 months old. There are no cracks in the vacuum tubes. I removed the AIS system last year, which had some gunk in it and it helped a little. Idle is set to 1,100 RPM.I believe the problem may be with the map sensor or throttle position sensor? What can I do about this? I've looked at the MAP sensor port without seeing anything remarkable.The following problem only occurs when the temperature drops:The bike immediately starts then quickly stalls. The 2nd start stays on, but runs roughly at 1100 RPM. After about 4 minutes as the engine warms, the rpm drops to ~500 and will stall; even if I'm riding. It will stay on if I am giving it gas. This problem persists for about 10 minutes. Then no problem. As the temperature continues to drop moving into winter, the problem will get worse. It is inconvenient having to continually hold the throttle.HELP!

 

[RossKean]

Any error codes?

 

[John d]

You could try removing all the map sensor tubing as a unit. Spray through in all directions with WD40 and blow out with compressed air. Gunk in the tubing is hard to find visually. Heat in the early stages frees up the gunky goo to let air pass allowing the map sensor to work. The problem only gets worse with mileage. Sometimes once warmed up the bike run good for the day, other times being intermittent.

 

[RiderJoe]

@John Did you happen to check/test the Air Intake Temperature sensor? Maybe it is worth taking a look. The sensor should be on the air filter case. According to the service manual, it is a very delicate sensor, handle it with care. If it is dropped it needs to be replaced. To clean electrical sensors like this (MAP, MAF, etc.) only use a cleaner designed for this purpose, like CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner. Do not use any spray like WD40 that will leave an oily residue. Also, these sensors have very delicate components in them, so I would also avoid using compressed for cleaning. (Sorry, John D, I don't mean to contradict you. Just trying to help.)

 

[mcatrophy]

The bike immediately starts then quickly stalls. The 2nd start stays on, but runs roughly at 1100 RPM. After about 4 minutes as the engine warms, the rpm drops to ~500 and will stall; even if I'm riding. It will stay on if I am giving it gas.

If the idle after a cold start isn't higher than the warm setting, this points to the cold fast idle mechanism not functioning as it should. The rest of your symptoms are consistent with this.

 

[John]

Any error codes?

How do I check for error codes? I get the yellow error light intermittently, only in the morning following a stall. 

 

[John]

@John Did you happen to check/test the Air Intake Temperature sensor? Maybe it is worth taking a look. The sensor should be on the air filter case. According to the service manual, it is a very delicate sensor, handle it with care. If it is dropped it needs to be replaced. To clean electrical sensors like this (MAP, MAF, etc.) only use a cleaner designed for this purpose, like CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner. Do not use any spray like WD40 that will leave an oily residue. Also, these sensors have very delicate components in them, so I would also avoid using compressed for cleaning. (Sorry, John D, I don't mean to contradict you. Just trying to help.)

I haven't looked at the air temp sensor. What should I be looking for? What do I do when I get to it? Anyway to test it?

Can I spray the CRC mass air flow sensor cleaner directly into the MAP sensor? Apart from the spray, is there anything else to do when I get to it?

 

[RossKean]

How do I check for error codes? I get the yellow error light intermittently, only in the morning following a stall. 

First of all, check out this thread:

Fault Code 14 Gen II - Solved - Technical/Mechanical Problems - FJRForum

To check the fault code, read this one:

Diagnostic Codes - FAQs and Common Historical Info - FJRForum

Not saying that this is the issue but it is a possibility.

 

[John d]

@John Did you happen to check/test the Air Intake Temperature sensor? Maybe it is worth taking a look. The sensor should be on the air filter case. According to the service manual, it is a very delicate sensor, handle it with care. If it is dropped it needs to be replaced. To clean electrical sensors like this (MAP, MAF, etc.) only use a cleaner designed for this purpose, like CRC Mass Air Flow Sensor Cleaner. Do not use any spray like WD40 that will leave an oily residue. Also, these sensors have very delicate components in them, so I would also avoid using compressed for cleaning. (Sorry, John D, I don't mean to contradict you. Just trying to help.)

Joe.

To clarify. I only suggested WD40 and compressed air for the vacuum sensor tubing, not the sensor itself. I agree not to use on the map sensor itself.

I have had the problem twice in 120,000 miles.

 

[John d]

I haven't looked at the air temp sensor. What should I be looking for? What do I do when I get to it? Anyway to test it?

Can I spray the CRC mass air flow sensor cleaner directly into the MAP sensor? Apart from the spray, is there anything else to do when I get to it?

I would not spray anything into the map sensor itself. If there is any oily goo present, it will be at the entrance where the vacuum tube attaches. That goo if present it can easily be picked out with a tooth pick, if it does not extend far into the internal components, to maybe 3/16" in. It's easy to tell if you're going in to far.

 

[RossKean]

I don't think I would choose WD-40 unless you did a spritz of something like carb cleaner to rinse out the WD-40 residue.  Dry thoroughly before hooking back up. As John d mentioned, don't get anything into the MAP sensor.  

Anyway, check out any stored diagnostic fault codes first.

 

[John d]

Some carb cleaners can be very bad for rubber, so choose wisely if you do.

 

[RossKean]

Some carb cleaners can be very bad for rubber, so choose wisely if you do.

Seemed to work OK for me but it wasn't in contact very long.  I agree that the solvent can be aggressive to some types of rubber/plastic so perhaps the WD-40 followed by soap and water might be better.  

Note:  This specific issue (blockage of the MAP sensor line) seems to have been more common on earlier Gen II.  Happened once on my '07 in the 186,000 miles I owned it.  Not happened on my 2011 (yet).  Look for the fault code 14.

 

[John]

If the idle after a cold start isn't higher than the warm setting, this points to the cold fast idle mechanism not functioning as it should. The rest of your symptoms are consistent with this.

How do I fix this?

 

[John d]

How do I fix this?

John

In your original post you mentioned that your cold idle was faster than your warm idle, so no problem there.

I would not mess with the idle setting, until everything else is sorted out. DAMHIK

 

[RiderJoe]

@John The Air Intake Temperature sensor is threaded into the air filter case. I don't have info on the 2012 model, but on my 2006 it is visible if I remove the font seat, and look towards the engine, under the metal bracket that holds the seat's front cleat down. It is threaded into the plastic air filter box. The unit has a hexagonal metal base, so that it can be removed with a deep socket after the wiring connector has been disconnected from it. It is similar in shape to oil pressure sensors on cars - here is a picture of one on Ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/143946638976. The service manual's test procedure for it is to lower the sensor into a container of water so that the electrical connections are above the water. Attach a pocket Ohm meter to the terminals. Place a thermometer into the water with the sensor, and heat the water slowly, then let it cool to 80C or 176F. At that temperature the Ohm meter should read 290 - 390 Ohms. 

 

[John d]

How do I check for error codes? I get the yellow error light intermittently, only in the morning following a stall. 

I had the yellow light come on as well when I had the map sensor tubing issue. I would just stop, restart, then the light would be off and the bike would run better, sometimes. I had to ride two days home with that issue, from Virginia to Ontario in November, several years back. Once the engine was hot the bike ran normally for the rest of the day, but the issue never stopped until I dealt with the map sensor vacuum tubes.

It's easy to pull the vacuum tubes out as a unit and clean them. I would not separate the individual tubes from their tiny plastic connectors for fear of braking the plastic connectors. There are fives ends to the vacuum tubing, one to each throttle body and one to the map sensor. Disconnect the map sensor before cleaning.

 

[RossKean]

Have you checked for stored diagnostic (error) codes yet?

No point in doing anything else until you have done that.  Go through all of the on-board diagnostics while you are at it.  I included a link to the procedures above...

https://www.fjrforum.com/topic/178647-stalling/?do=findComment&comment=1441116

 

[John]

SOLVED
Same problem and fix as last year. I lifted the tank, pulled the tubes from the MAP sensor. I blew through the tubes and I wouldn't say I felt any great resistance; regardless, I sprayed Gum Out, waited 5 minutes, sprayed Gum Out again. I held each of the openings to independently let the spray course through each tube pathway. I sprayed again with compressed air (Dust Off), then ran a wire through each section (no great amount of gunk or dirt). I reinstalled and the bike has worked great for a week. The job took less than an hour, including lifting the tank. It was counter-intuitive to think the tubes would be clogged after only about a year, but there you have it. Such a difference in performance, acceleration, etc.

Reference item numbers 10, 11, 12, 13 in the link below:
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2012-yamaha-fjr1300a-fjr13abl/o/m154346#sch746936

 

[RossKean]

Reference item numbers 10, 11, 12, 13 in the link below:

The only goop in mine was in #12 from the diagram...

Did fault code 14 show up in the diagnostics?