Weird symptoms. Need your expertise please...

[FJRay]

Another vote for canister issues. I recently removed a canister from a Ca. bike ( for testing purposes only). It's a pretty simple process to remove and reinstall to see if that is the problem.

 

[sapest]

Yes, here in California, all gas station nozzles have this bellow that sucks fume to prevent venting out to the atmosphere. However, it's hard to fill up motorcycle tank like a car (by sticking the nozzle all the way in to activate the pump) so I always compress the bellow with my left hand (or gas wouldn't come out) while sticking the nozzle in the tank. I usually fill until the level is below the gas tank neck (not to the brim). That was the same way for the last 40k miles

Sidebar -

You may find this useful, gives you back a free hand while filling.

https://www.aerostich.com/e-z-fill-nozzle-key.html

-Steve

 

[mikerider]

Another vote for canister issues. I recently removed a canister from a Ca. bike ( for testing purposes only). It's a pretty simple process to remove and reinstall to see if that is the problem.

Thanks for  the info. Is the canister under the tank? Do you have any pics? Thanks.

 

[mikerider]

I think you want to open the one that goes from the tank to the charcoal canister so the tank can breathe with the canister out of the loop. 

Thanks. You're right. If I can access to the canister, I'll disconnect them all (and plug the one that goes to the cyl #3 and 4 so they won't suck in dirty air).

 

[mikerider]

Sidebar -

You may find this useful, gives you back a free hand while filling.

https://www.aerostich.com/e-z-fill-nozzle-key.html

-Steve

Thank you! That's neat, I should get one!

 

[FJRay]

Thanks for  the info. Is the canister under the tank? Do you have any pics? Thanks.

On the 13 it's located down in the bottom of the fairing just behind the front wheel.

 

[kmanflyer]

Thanks for  the info. Is the canister under the tank? Do you have any pics? Thanks.

mikerider, This thread has some good info and a couple pictures close to the end of the thread. 
https://www.fjrforum.com/topic/174720-a-hot-cold-start/?tab=comments#comment-1400119 mcatrophy's post 3rd from the end has pictures of the location of the canister. It's in the fairing at the bottom below the radiator and in front of the header. There's a vent/drain hose sticking out that connects to the canister.

I would just plug the intake hose/s like you where thinking, making sure the vent for the tank is still operational and leave the thing mounted as stock. For testing purposes only of coarse.

Good luck with the testing. Ray beat me to it.

 

[mcatrophy]

Picture showing the canister.  

(Click on image for larger view)



The symptoms I wrote about, in the topic linked to by kmanflyer above, were very different from yours, a one-off in very different conditions.

 

[kmanflyer]

Hi there,

I recently have a weird symptom that I really couldn't figure out. 

- I have a 2014 with 40k miles and I'm the original owner. Runs perfectly since new and I ride everyday here in SoCal to/from work for 50 miles round trip.

From day 1, I filled up usually at around 250 miles, with about 5.7 Gallons (so it had about 0.9 Gal left). It runs perfectly without missing a beat for the last 40K miles.

Recently, for the last few weeks, right after I filled up and started the bike, it died. The engine started fine, as always, but the RPM dropped to below 1000 ( I guess it was about 700-800) and died. Restarted it. Same thing. Only after I held and blipped the throttle to keep the rpm up for a few minutes, then it was fine. After that, it idles normally.

- It couldn't be the gas, right?  Because it happened only **immediately** after refueled. Once I held/blipped the throttle to keep the rpm up for a few minutes, it runs fine for the rest of the 250 miles without a glitch.  I have also used seafoam to see if it cleaned out any residue but nothing improved.

- It happened for the last 4 fuel up now. Every single time. The same symptom after refuel. The same hold/blip the throttle and then it ran great for another 250 miles.

What could this be? I'd truly and greatly appreciate any comment and suggestion. 

Thank you all!

mike-

Went to sister-in-law's for lunch today (very nice, but not the point).

I left the bike in front of the house on the drive, and in the sunshine (we've been having some unusually very hot weather for the UK), and joined the family at the back of the house in the shade.

Some five hours later, I get myself ready to leave, sit on the bike, start it, and was a little surprised to see the ambient temperature display showing 40C (104F), and the LCD screen was just beginning to blacken. But it had been sitting in the sun, so understandable.

Paddled the bike back to the road, selected first, started to open the throttle. As the clutch started to engage (this is a YCC-S bike), the engine misfired a bit, and as the clutch fully engaged, the engine stalled. Nearly dropped it because the bike was leaned over a bit. Stalling almost never, ever, happens on a YCC-S bike.

Pressed the starter, engine missed as it fired, I gave it a bit of throttle which got it running, then repeated first gear, throttle up, misfire and stall (only this time the bike was pointing straight ahead, I'm not completely stupid).

Thoughts started going through my mind, feels like the engine is lacking fuel, late Saturday afternoon, miles from home ...

Anyway, after the 4th or 5th attempt, it didn't stall, I could start to accelerate into 2nd gear, and it began to run normally.

So over the course of my trip back home I think I worked out what had happened. The bike had soaked up to a high temperature. The engine management computer probably thought the engine was already hot, so it ignored the cold start cycle, meaning that the engine wouldn't run properly. In retrospect, I remembered that when I started it, it didn't run at its cold idle speed, just at normal warm speed.

Not heard of an FJR doing this before, so thought I'd post it up.

Hoping it starts normally on the next cold start ...

mcatrophy, You're right they are different circumstances and I'm sorry I didn't mean to drag you into this. But your posts are always great and have lots of detail and pictures. I was mainly trying help the OP find where the CC was located. In my defense, both scenarios involve stalling after start up. I always enjoy your posts and your willingness to share your knowledge.

mikerider, I hope you find the problem and have success. 

 

[RossKean]

If you choose to bypass the cannister in some fashion, be careful.  Examine the parts fiche from the Cali version and the 49 state versions and replumb accordingly.  If you block the vent from the tank to the cannister, you may end out putting the tank under vacuum.  If you open the line from the cannister to the airbox so it doesn't draw through the cannister, you may be introducing unfiltered air into your engine.  It can be done (I bypassed the cannister on my Cali-version '07) but make sure you understand the plumbing.  If the problem is reproduceable, you might simply remove all of the lines from the cannister (temporarily) and give it a try.

Compare parts fiche:

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2016/fjr1300a-fjr13agc/fuel-tank

 

[mcatrophy]

Another test, though you may have tried this already. Have you tried restarting the bike simply after stopping for a fuel re-fill period of time (what, 5 minutes?, or however long you usually take). Possibly repeat with stopping, opening the filler, waiting a few minutes, shut the filler and re-start.

Might help point to the cause.

 

[mikerider]

mikerider, This thread has some good info and a couple pictures close to the end of the thread. 
https://www.fjrforum.com/topic/174720-a-hot-cold-start/?tab=comments#comment-1400119 mcatrophy's post 3rd from the end has pictures of the location of the canister. It's in the fairing at the bottom below the radiator and in front of the header. There's a vent/drain hose sticking out that connects to the canister.

I would just plug the intake hose/s like you where thinking, making sure the vent for the tank is still operational and leave the thing mounted as stock. For testing purposes only of coarse.

Good luck with the testing. Ray beat me to it.

Thank you for pointing to the pics! That help! Still seems to not be easily accessible...

 

[mikerider]

Another test, though you may have tried this already. Have you tried restarting the bike simply after stopping for a fuel re-fill period of time (what, 5 minutes?, or however long you usually take). Possibly repeat with stopping, opening the filler, waiting a few minutes, shut the filler and re-start.

Might help point to the cause.

Thanks. No I have not tried this. I will try it tomorrow when I go to work. I guess we want to see if just the fact of opening the gas tank filler cap and then closing it, without fueling, will cause the problem?

Thanks again.

mike-

 

[mikerider]

If you choose to bypass the cannister in some fashion, be careful.  Examine the parts fiche from the Cali version and the 49 state versions and replumb accordingly.  If you block the vent from the tank to the cannister, you may end out putting the tank under vacuum.  If you open the line from the cannister to the airbox so it doesn't draw through the cannister, you may be introducing unfiltered air into your engine.  It can be done (I bypassed the cannister on my Cali-version '07) but make sure you understand the plumbing.  If the problem is reproduceable, you might simply remove all of the lines from the cannister (temporarily) and give it a try.

Compare parts fiche:

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2016/fjr1300a-fjr13agc/fuel-tank

Thanks for the advice. If I could access the canister and disconnecting hoses work, I can put a small fuel filter on the hose that returns to tank (so it won't draw in dirty air and still vent) and plug the other.

 

[mikerider]

Picture showing the canister.  

(Click on image for larger view)



The symptoms I wrote about, in the topic linked to by kmanflyer above, were very different from yours, a one-off in very different conditions.

Thank you! This picture is very clear! Looks like I'll need to remove all the fairings to access it...

 

[mcatrophy]

... Looks like I'll need to remove all the fairings to access it...

Not necessarily, those rubber pipes do come up to the under-tank area, but sorry, don't think I have any pictures in that area of a canister-equipped FJR.

 

[mikerider]

Ok, just went out to take a look.  This is from the left hand side and looks like these 2 hoses come from the canister.

If I want to do a quick hack job, I could cut them here and if worse comes to worst, I could probably put a double-ended barb fitting to connect them back. 

 

[mikerider]

Ok, I cut the hose that returns to the engine and plugged both ends with a bolt. Will see how it works next week when I fill up.

I didn't cut the hose that goes from the tank to the canister to keep the venting opened. Do I need to? I could cut it and put an inline fuel filter for venting if needed.

For the record, of course I'll test it on a closed course and offroad, then I'll connect them back before I ride it on the streets..

Thank you all!

 

[mikerider]

Actually I shouldn't cut the hose that goes from the tank to the canister, because the roll-over valve (to prevent fuel spill when the bike is dropped) is connected at the canister. I should disconnect it at the canister if I need to, but not cutting it.

 

[art miller]

I have been following this topic with interest. I am on my third CA FJR and never experienced this issue. I have always topped off my bikes to the very top of the tank prior to parking for extended periods. I have done this thinking it will prevent moisture collecting in the tank. The bikes have always been parked in garage where temps are in the 60-70 degree temps. It never came to mind liquid gas would find its way to the charcoal canister. I do use Sea-foam regularly as well. Perhaps I should not top off beyond the fill flange??