Stator Interest?

[dcarver]

WC -

20+ years of calibrating Measuring and Test Equipment at the local nuke plant make me wonder if the Datel is responding differently due to ambient temperature, RH, age, blah blah blah. Most lower-end meters have terrible temperature coefficients on the stated reference accuracy.

Just a thought. If the stator mfr doesn't have a good reason perhaps double checking the Datel with another calibrated DMM of equal or hopefully better accuracy exposed to the same environmental conditions as the Datel when you're getting the low readings might be a good idea. This would eleminate at least one variable in the equation.

I bring this up because way to often I see the test equipment as being the problem and not the process it's attempting to accurately measure.

Then again it could be the stator!

Thanks for all your work WC - greatly appreciated.

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

A question to answer if you please. Will the Datel read differently for batteries at a different stage in their life span? Say would it read differently for a fresh battery as say that one is in a half life or lower? Or does this have any bearing on the readout whatsoever?

 

[Ramblin Man]

This is just some wild speculation, but might not the lower readings be a sign of a fully charged battery and no load?

You are riding with fewer accessories now, using less of a load so the battery is staying more fully charged. The regulator sees this and reduces the output so the voltage drops a little.

When you were riding with more accessories, the load was higher so the output was higher to compensate.

That might be all crap, but I see the same thing when I watch the voltmeter after starting my car. It climbs up to 14.7 immediatley after start-up and then after a few minutes the voltage drops down to a steady 13.8.

Remember, the datel is not reading current, but it will give you a sense of the how much current is being generated because the voltge will raise. Lower voltage may simply be a result of lower current generation because more is not needed.

Just a wild guess.

 

[JoshHefnerX]

Similar to the above. How old is the battery and what's it's condition?

Josh

 

[Warchild]

Similar to the above. How old is the battery and what's it's condition?

It is brand new..... a WestCo 12V14B-4 which is less than 3 months old.

 

[FNG]

Is it possible it's related to the regulator, rather than the alternator? Perhaps a reaction to the higher output, and it's possible damaging effect on the reg? Though it's not like you installed a nuke, but this was a concern early on, and is still valid until proven otherwise. Other than that, a +1 to Ramblins post, though the early readings would argue with this conclusion. Try loading the battery down, suck some life out of it, then check volt readings. Might just crank right back up there till the battery has absorbed all it can take.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

WC: Have you previously only used oem batteries? Iow, might you have introduced a new variable with the WestCo? Shame on you if you changed two things simultaneously.

 

[Ignacio]

WC: Have you previously only used oem batteries? Iow, might you have introduced a new variable with the WestCo? Shame on you if you changed two things simultaneously. 

Do the math! This thread didn't start until March 1. Warchild didn't put the stator in until the latter half of March.....so basically he's done all this testing and posting easily within a month.

3 is greater than 1, so unless he has a wormhole at his disposal a new battery is not even remotely a variable.

Even if a new battery had a bearing on this isuee (which I highly doubt) do you think he's gonna miss that detail? :dribble:

 

[jestal]

WC, is is possible that the slow drift downward in stabilized running voltage is due to the ambient air temps you are riding in now? Typically a battery will require higher and higher voltages to charge as the battery gets colder and colder. I am not familiar with the charging voltage requirements of the FJR type batteries but I would hazard a guess that the required charging voltage is slightly lower with warmer and warmer weather on average. This might account for the several tenths of a volt shift you are seeing with time.

 

[Warchild]

  WC, is is possible that the slow drift downward in stabilized running voltage is due to the ambient air temps you are riding in now?

Well, most anything is possible, I guess. I'm just reporting that I am seeing a difference in readings compared to the stock stator, and in some ways these are changes I am not expecting. I never had these readout changes with the OEM hardware.

Now to muddy the waters further... I did more "high-load" testing last night.

In addition to the HID low beams (84-watts) and PHIDs (another 84-watts), I also had all my heated gear connected up: Widder vest/arm chaps, Widder leg chaps, and Widder Gloves: All of these Widder items together draw 108-watts.

So all Widder gear plus the PHID aux lights are just under 200-watts of additional load above that needed just to run the bike.

Test Conditions:

Mild weather (72 degrees, breezy winds), bike was thoroughly warmed up with 2 bars showing. Test route consisted of fairly high-speed desert roads where engine speeds were usually well above 4000 RPM.

Datel Results:

1) Running low-beams only, nothing else: 13.9 volts

2) As above, but also running the PHIDs: The Datel would initially sink down to 13.2 volts, but within 8-12 seconds, it would had climbed back up to 13.7 volts

3) As above, but also with ALL Widder gear running, with the Widder Electronic Controller set on maximum high: The Datel would initially sink down to 12.8 volts, and after 8-12 seconds, it would slowly climb back up to ~ 13.1 volts. This is not a good way to run on a consistant, ongoing basis. While you are still (slightly) charging the system, and you shouldn't be left stranded with a dead battery, you are nontheless making life very rough for your stator. If running like this was a common practice, your stator lifespan would likely be less than normal.

4) Same as above, but the Widder Electronic Controller set on ~ 60%: The Datel would still initially sink down to 13.1 volts, but within 8-12 seconds, it would climb back up to fairly healthy 13.6 volts. Now we're talking a little bit better! This is the test that tells me this stator is worth it, at least to those Iron Butt riders who have GOT to have the lights at night so they have a prayer of avoiding deer, but they also GOT to have full heated clothing available so they can stay warm enough to control the bike when dead tired and cresting over a 9000' summit at 3AM.

As my Phase I testing draws to a close, here are my current thoughts on this stator (and I might have a different tune after talking with ElectroSport later today):

• The stator definitely offers for power output than stock
• While bench test equipment tells us we are supposed to have an additional 100-watts above stock, the amount of extra power actually available to the user is undetermined, but testing suggests it's probably not a full 100-watts.
• It should be noted that my FJR is a 2003 model; who knows what electrical changes (if any) has occurred on the newer models.
• Also noteworthy to remember is that I am using Low-Beam only HIDs, so I am already saving 26-watts over a stock FJR in low-beam. That extra 26-watts may make a difference in the Datel readings that you might see.

 

[skyway]

Update:
Try as they might, at this time the special 3 prong plug is not going to happen. It appears it is exclusivity only made for the FJR and can not be found anywhere in the connector markets. However this is not really that big of a deal or a stopping factor. I've been told they'll be working on some photos and instructions to help along the install. If you looked at Warchild's photos you'll already know what to look for.

There has been some concern regarding the Yamaha warranty if something should fry. If something was going to fry it would do so in the first hour. Rest assure they are not going to risk being sued over a shoddy product. This is tested daily by the owner, but only you can make the decision to buy or not.

They're not going to supply gaskets, so you're on your own there. You can get them from McCoy for about 6 bucks and postage.

They would like to see a show of hands of at least 50 people for the GB. Was told that the stators are still out about 3 weeks, end of April, give or take.

If you think that this is something of interest, send me a email with ESG130 Stator in the subject line to>> rconn at actionnet dot net.

Thanks for your interest,

Fabone

Fabone - Just curious what the response has been, are we anywhere near the required amount for the GB discount?

Thanks.

 

[Fabone]

Fabone - Just curious what the response has been, are we anywhere near the required amount for the GB discount?

Skyway....

This has been an interesting case study of learning for me, in Aftermarket marketing. I was warned that the FJR just doesn't command the numbers, to compete in Aftermarket products. I didn't want to believe that, but I'm afraid I misjudged the market.

So to answer your question.......at this point in time, I'm sorry to report, no.

There's still time and I'll try to work with what I've got when that time comes, but I can't guarantee anything. I'm still waiting and watching....

Thanks for your continued interest,

Fabone

 

[FJRocket]

When the time comes, start a new thread? Try and get WC to give a sort of positive backing... if the stator deserves one?

Guess there's not a lot of high wattage riders out there. The Widder GB I set up was pretty lame, too. Then again, maybe if the stator was around then, it would have turned out better.

Oh, well, if it gets the WC blessing, I'm still in. Even if it's only a moderate improvement.

Thanks Fab, keep us posted, k: !

 

[skyway]

Fabone - Just curious what the response has been, are we anywhere near the required amount for the GB discount?

Skyway....

This has been an interesting case study of learning for me, in Aftermarket marketing. I was warned that the FJR just doesn't command the numbers, to compete in Aftermarket products. I didn't want to believe that, but I'm afraid I misjudged the market.

So to answer your question.......at this point in time, I'm sorry to report, no.

There's still time and I'll try to work with what I've got when that time comes, but I can't guarantee anything. I'm still waiting and watching....

Thanks for your continued interest,

Fabone

Well thats not the good news I was hoping for. I know what you mean about the aftermarket numbers not being there for this bike. Compared to a lot of bikes the FJR does not come close with aftermarket support.

I'm glad you brought the stator to my attention though, as it is a weak link for a bike designed to go long distance 2-up in most elements of weather.

Whatever the outcome, please thank those involved for the development of this product.

I'm in regardless of whether this GB can happen or not, please let me know if/when I should just go direct.

 

[toophast]

If it shakes out as "okay" I'm buying one GB or not just waiting for those with mechanical knowledge to nod the head for a slightly longer testing...

Still waiting patiently

Toophast

 

[awryders]

Yes,,Same response here..Group buy or not,,,I'm buying..

I ride a lot,I'm tired of watching that damn Datel and as soon as the details are

posted my Paypal's getting hit.

Thanks to all involved for the hard work on getting this stator problem cured.

P.S. My gasket is sitting on the work bench..

Now over to the PHID group buy thread

 

[Rogue]

I'm getting one unless WC has some problem with the test unit, I don't think I'd have time to install before the end of summer so I'll wait to see if a GB happens, if not I'll order aftr WFO.

 

[yamaholic]

Me too, just waiting on some medium-long term reliability results. I don't need a ton more power, and from what Warchild describes, should be enough for me.

Group buy or not, if it cam sustain a bit more power reliably, I'm IN!

 

[dougc]

Fabone,

Just to get another number in here, I am definitely interested in the GB based on WC's preliminary reports.

 

[dobias]

Fabone,

I'm ready to install one this coming winter. What will the cost be if there isn't enough interest for a group buy? I already have the gasket.

dobias <_<